Date   

Re: Chantilly -Digital Limb Perfusion

jgpigger
 

Hi Karen
When I watch her she does not want to bend that knee and places her foot way out in front and then limps forward.
This is the motion or pretty darn close to what Ellie's movement is? Thats why I think its a tendon/ligament problem.
Hope things look better tomorrow for your girl. candy 2010/1


Re: Abscess?Ellie/was:hay test

jgpigger
 

Hi Lorna
i don't think so there was a creek and she wouldn't cross it because of the ice over it. Ellie's always been lame, better than when we started in Dec. but never without sore footedness. It was about a week or so ago that I brought the horses in from outside and it was windy and cold so they got to the arena and all three of them, (Ellie being one of them) started running and bucking and jumping. I told Ellie she should slow down as she's probably going to pay for her antics. Well, here you have it! That's why I think its a pulled tendon/ligament issue. However another things she's done a week or two ago was biting at her hoof, on the inside of the left front (the one she's having problems with now) while she was laying down. I sat down by her and felt around and found nothing but she really didn't want me probing in that area. She also for the last week or two has been biting at her left side, near her shoulder, or as close to it as she can bend. I told her the other day, "I know you're trying to tell me something, it has to do with the left side, but where or what is it?" Tonight when I was cleaning her stall, she dropped her head and bit at that left foot, but only for a moment. So as for Ellie getting better, yes, but quickly we've made another turn. It has to do with the left side.
I spoke with an animal communicator the other day and she said that Ellie says she has a sore left shoulder, ummm? However, there is something that is causing this shoulder to be sore? Is it an abcess?
I am going to soak her foot in epsom salt tomorrow and do some Equine Muscle work on her to help her relax and maybe something will give soon? I didn't bute her tonight, so I am sure tomorrow she'll be really sore. Not sure if I should leave her in her stall or take her to the arena? Would an abcess open quicker with the movement, but without a diagnoisis of a tendon issue I run the risk of injurying that more. What's a mother to do? Thanks hope this clears up a few things. candy 2010/1 U.P. of Michigan


Candy,I'm missing something here,so please be patient?

Could this be the missing link to her new discomfort?


Lorna in Ontario
Support/Moderator
2002


Re: Chantilly -Digital Limb Perfusion

 

Karen" <karen@...> wrote:
Has anyone had this problem? I am hoping and praying you will tell me this is not permanent. I will be so sad if I have hurt her forever when I was only trying to help.
Hi Karen,

I don't have any answers for you. I just want to tell you to take a deep breath and don't assume the worst. And most importantly of all, don't be hard on yourself. I know that's all easier said than done though.

When I read your posts and see all that you do and have done for Tilly - I'm just in awe. You're definitely an inspiration with your love and dedication to Tilly.

Barb in western CO (with Sierra, Libby, Josie the donkey and Lola)
2005
EC List Support Team

www.ecirhorse.com


Re: abcesses

 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "jgpigger" <forpets@...> wrote:

Does anyone know if I should not give Ellie anymore bute if it is an abcess. Thanks candy 2010/1 U.P. of Michigan
Candy,

No bute if it may be an abscess. Actually no bute if you don't know exactly what it is you're dealing with. Can make diagnosis more difficult for the vet, harder for you to monitor any changes in her condition and may allow her to injure herself more (if she is injured) because pain is actually protective against the horse doing something that will cause more damage.

Barb in western CO (with Sierra, Libby, Josie the donkey and Lola)
2005
EC List Support Team

www.ecirhorse.com


Re: Abscess?Ellie/was:hay test

Lorna <briars@...>
 

See Ellie has never "really" gotten better since I started this low s/s diet etc. Her lameness got less, but never great. She has lost some weight, and appeared more chipper, but when she'd come into the barn and hit the cement floor she would walk gingerly. thanks for your help,
Candy,I'm missing something here,so please be patient?

On March 10 I read your message 139734.You were thrilled, saying how wonderful Ellie was and thanking everyone for their help.

On March 11,I read your message 139754 ,in which you were asking if the dead winter grass would really hurt her.

Did she get to use that little hill of dead grass?
Could this be the missing link to her new discomfort?


Lorna in Ontario
Support/Moderator
2002


Mineral - no way hose'!!

teddy_and_hero <littleblackchevy@...>
 

Good evening!

I was hoping to get a little help.

I am experimenting on how to get the horses to eat/except their minerals and so far failing...

They love the no molasses beet pulp/flax seed/Vit E mix, but as soon as I added the minerals they need, no go! I also tried adding some soaked hay cubes to the mix and still turned up noses!

I tried the low side feed pans, lowering the amount to just get them started. The next step that I am trying tomorrow is putting them into some kind of treats I made up. But, I don't want to always have to feed it to them that way if not necessary, but I am hoping this will make it less strange to them for the first few days/weeks. Then I will switch back to just tossing it into their beet pulp.

I also was wondering thinking about trying some peppermint, chamomile or fengreek, but don't know what would be safe amounts or if just making it into a tea will be safe amounts. I figure the tea could be used to soak into the beet pulp or hay cubes with the minerals mixed in?

Anyone have the same problem?

Thanks!
Jen K
Felton, PA
Teddy - Cushings


abcesses

jgpigger
 

Does anyone know if I should not give Ellie anymore bute if it is an abcess. Thanks candy 2010/1 U.P. of Michigan


Re: Abscess?Ellie/was:hay test

jgpigger
 

Hi Linda
No I did not know that could happen. I kept thinking that maybe there was an abscess brewing but nothing. I fear having someone start digging around in her foot and finding nothing.
How would I go about soaking it? Epsom salts with hot water for how long?Does the water have to go over the top of the cornet band or just the lower part of the hoof?
I do have some Epsom salt somewhere.
See Ellie has never "really" gotten better since I started this low s/s diet etc. Her lameness got less, but never great. She has lost some weight, and appeared more chipper, but when she'd come into the barn and hit the cement floor she would walk gingerly. thanks for your help, candy 2010/1 U.P. of Michigan

--- In EquineCushings@..., "PCFarm" <pecciefarm@...> wrote:

Candy, I don't know if you are aware of this--with all of your current
worries with Ellie--but an acute abscess can cause the leg to swell up, even
to the knee, before the abscess blows out.


Re: Case HX for Fury Sharpless

 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "stephsharpless@..." <stephsharpless@...> wrote:

Yesterday was an incredibly frustrating day for both of us. Fury paced back and forth along the fence in the almost dry lot that I have him enclosed in and called to me everytime he saw me. His persistance was almost more than I could bear.
Hi Stephanie,

You know what crosses my mind when I read the above? If you've ever had a horse down or barely able to walk - there is nothing so delightful as watching them move around and get an attitude just because they feel good. :)

Like the time I was walking Josie the donkey around the yard and she decided to drag me around until she got loose. She then proceeded to run around the yard and got my older mare who was out in the yard involved. I caught my breath when they ran across the concrete apron in front of the garage but no one was injured. And when it was all done, I was delighted that the donkey felt good enough to be that naughty!

Watching a horse with laminitis walk is definitely not the essence of a free spirit. What you are doing for Fury now will likely prevent him from ever being in that scenario.

Barb in western CO (with Sierra, Libby, Josie the donkey and Lola)
2005
EC List Support Team
www.ecirhorse.com


Re: hay test

Cindy McGinley
 

"jgpigger" <forpets@...>wrote:

You make it sound like I am not giving a hoot about my horse, well your wrong, Ellie is my love and I am not going to listen to people on the interenet who try to tell everyone what they should do or not do with their horses. To be honest its people with your attitude that turned my off to this group.
You should re-read what you right.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I was only trying to help you by sharing my own experience (many more years than I care to count as a professional horsewoman, by the way). And I always re-read what I write before sending to be certain that I am clear. You might want to try to read what I wrote again without projecting intent or emotion. I'm pretty sure you misinterpreted my tone.


- Cindy and Alf (with entourage) in NY
EC Primary Response Team
May 2006
www.blackhorseconsulting.com

Visit the new Equine Cushings site:
http://www.ecirhorse.com


Re: hay test

jgpigger
 

HI Cindy

While how you treat your own horse is certainly your choice, if it was
my horse, I would get a definitive diagnosis immediately so I would know how to proceed from here.

Yes I plan on doing that, but its Sunday, and the only vet we have up here comes to this area periodically and the other vet has an old ultrasound machine that he doesn't think will give clear enough pictures.
You make it sound like I am not giving a hoot about my horse, well your wrong, Ellie is my love and I am not going to listen to people on the interenet who try to tell everyone what they should do or not do with their horses. To be honest its people with your attitude that turned my off to this group.
You should re-read what you right. I know you feel strongly about DSLD but nothing can be done until I can get a vet here,and I already paid her 400.00 for a farm call that resulted in her diagnoises of founder. Pretty costly farm call, wouldn't you say? I can't afford to have her run to me with those kinds of charges, heaven knows I wouldn't have any money left for Ellies treatments if there were any, get my point? Thanks for your brief but sharp opinion. candy 2010/1 U.P. of Michigan


Abscess?Ellie/was:hay test

Linda Peccie
 

Candy, I don't know if you are aware of this--with all of your current worries with Ellie--but an acute abscess can cause the leg to swell up, even to the knee, before the abscess blows out. I have had a couple like that on my rehab horses here and my hunch is it's a case of reduced circulation in the abscess area along with not using that foot/leg for a time. I certainly didn't know about it when first faced with the "hideously lame syndrome." An abscessing foot needs whatever stimulation it can get. Linda in NC-2002


Re: hay test

Cindy McGinley
 

"jgpigger" <forpets@...> wrote:

<< If its not DSLD and just a pulled tendon, then I will damage the tendon more by letting her move about. Kind of a catch 22 in my opinion. When she had this flare up before, my vet said it wasn't DSLD and that she's seen lots of it. >>

I hope it's a pulled tendon, for you and your horse's sake.

While how you treat your own horse is certainly your choice, if it was my horse, I would get a definitive diagnosis immediately so I would know how to proceed from here. And in regard to your vet saying she's seen lots of DSLD, I have a little story for you: the last vet that Alf saw (number 5) for his issues actually had her personal riding horse put down a year before because of DSLD, and yet she did not recognize it for what it was. After I took him for ultrasounds and they showed positive DSLD, I told her, and she was surprised and amazed that she didn't recognize it in him. All DSLD horses present differently.

For what it's worth.

- Cindy and Alf (with entourage) in NY
EC Primary Response Team
May 2006
www.blackhorseconsulting.com

Visit the new Equine Cushings site:
http://www.ecirhorse.com


Re: hay test

jgpigger
 

HI Cindy
If its not DSLD and just a pulled tendon, then I will damage the tendon more by letting her move about. Kind of a catch 22 in my opinion. When she had this flare up before, my vet said it wasn't DSLD and that she's seen lots of it. So im treating this as a tendon/ligament injury which might be more like it because i think that she pulled the tendon in the mud when walking and also when they came in one day and started racing around, running, bucking and jumping straight up in the air. That behaviour was short lived as she is back down to where we started in Dec. Bummmer :( candy 2010

.

If you think she has DSLD, then you should NOT lock her in a stall and
leave her there!


Re: Chantilly -Digital Limb Perfusion

Cindy McGinley
 

"Karen" <karen@...> wrote:
<< When I watch her she does not want to bend that knee and places her foot way out in front and then limps forward. Since the Previcox helped this seems like a plausible idea. Has anyone had this problem? I am hoping and praying you will tell me this is not permanent. I will be so sad if I have hurt her forever when I was only trying to help. >>


Karen, dear, I would expect some soreness from the procedure, which is invasive. Hang in there and see what happens, and above all, don't lose your hope now! I'm sure Dr. Kellon and others will have some words of reaasurance, but I just wanted to give you a hug and tell you that you didn't do anything wrong, and Tilly knows that everything you've done is because you are trying to help her. Stop brow-beating yourself. You are a great horse mom, and have gone above and beyond what many people would have done! You're certainly Tilly's hero, so have faith.

Hugs,
Cindy and Alf (with entourage) in NY
EC Primary Response Team
May 2006
www.blackhorseconsulting.com

Visit the new Equine Cushings site:
http://www.ecirhorse.com


Re: hay test

Cindy McGinley
 

"jgpigger" <forpets@...> wrote:
if you remember I joined the DSDL group. ...
So I gave her some bute, (against my better judgment, but need to get the swelling down) and put her in her stall where she will stay until I can get my vet out here, which might be weeks.
So I still beleive that the discovery of her feet were really never the problem, I think that her tendons are the primary and her feet are the secondary issues.
Any thoughts on what to do for her? I am going to town to get some heat pads and then wrap and rotate heat and ice for the day or two.
If you think she has DSLD, then you should NOT lock her in a stall and leave her there! If you read all the information provided by the DSLD group, then you know that these horses do better when they are allowed freedom of movement as much as possible. Do you have her on the DSLD protocol?

Ice is good for flare-ups. I used ice boots on Alf for 30 minutes when he came in at night while he was having swelling. (He no longer has swelling after 2.5 years on Dr. Kellon's protocol.) Low-carb feeding is good, too, just like an IR horse. Vitamin E in an oil base or fed with oil. My Alf is currently on 10,000 IU of E, so you could probably go up to at least 5,000 IU with your mare.

If you strongly suspect DSLD, there is no reason to wait for a diagnosis. Start treating her now like a DSLD horse.

- Cindy and Alf (PPID, IR, DSLD) with entourage in NY
EC Primary Response Team
May 2006
www.blackhorseconsulting.com

Visit the new Equine Cushings site:
http://www.ecirhorse.com


Re: hay test

jgpigger
 

HI Lorna
Ellie is not doing good right now. While she was doing fairly well, that's not so currently.
You know all along I thought Ellie was having muscle/tendon issues, if you remember I joined the DSDL group. Well I let Ellie go outside for while to get some sun and fresh air and she was going along pretty good. Really no sign of lameness or such.
Well about a week or so ago, she started really walking like she walked when my vet diagnoised her with founder. Yesterday, her limping was so bad, I started thinking tendon/ligaments again. Her movement was the same familiar movement when she was diagnoised, and to be honest I think that we "stumpled" onto her slightly rotated feet. I really don't think that was the "big" picture.
Yesterday, I started looking and feeling for heat and swelling and really watching her walk. Again as before, there was never a digital pulse or heat in her feet. But a continued lamneness issue.
So I wrapped her legs, put blanket on her and started some homepathics for tendon issues.
Today, no change in lameness, but no more swelling and heat on her left front leg, cannon bone area. I can feel the swelling today.
So I gave her some bute, (against my better judgment, but need to get the swelling down) and put her in her stall where she will stay until I can get my vet out here, which might be weeks.
So I still beleive that the discovery of her feet were really never the problem, I think that her tendons are the primary and her feet are the secondary issues.
Any thoughts on what to do for her? I am going to town to get some heat pads and then wrap and rotate heat and ice for the day or two.
Thanks for asking, but unfortunately, we're on the roller coaster again! Darn it. candy 2010/1 U.P. of Michigan

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Lorna" <briars@...> wrote:


The test came back with low sugars, 4.7 and the starches were 1.8
Sounds great to me,Candy!

How's Ellie doing??

Lorna in Ontario
Support/Moderator
2002


Re: hay test

Lorna <briars@...>
 

The test came back with low sugars, 4.7 and the starches were 1.8
Sounds great to me,Candy!

How's Ellie doing??

Lorna in Ontario
Support/Moderator
2002


Chantilly -Digital Limb Perfusion

Karen <karen@...>
 

HOpe this is ok to post here.
When Tilly walked into the clinic on MOnday they were shocked at how well she was walking and looked. LIke I mentioned the procedure lasted 2 1/2 hours with a tight tourniquet on each leg.
By the evening she seemed sore on the right. I was sad.
By the next morning she did not want to put weight on her foot. I did not give her any pain relief because I did not want to stop the action if she was abscessing. Wed, Thurs, Friday I soaked and wrapped. Last night i could not stand it and gave her a dose of her Previcox. This morning she is better, not great, but better. Here is my question. Do you think the tourniquet could have hurt her digital extensor tendon. When I watch her she does not want to bend that knee and places her foot way out in front and then limps forward. Since the Previcox helped this seems like a plausible idea. Has anyone had this problem? I am hoping and praying you will tell me this is not permanent. I will be so sad if I have hurt her forever when I was only trying to help.
Karen
Princess Tilly, Tommi and Koko
3-2005 Bend,Oregon


Re: Case HX for Fury Sharpless

Mandy Woods
 

Stephanie,
There are tricks to do! I set up a track for Nillabean. Its like the Jaime Jackson track. Its 10- 15 feet wide about 700 feet long. I feed her hay along the track in the morning - making several small piles. This keeps her moving. She can nibble the grass coming in or eat her hay. She's out for about 3 hours from 7am till 10am - I know by the feel of her crest when to bring her in. Another thing you can get is a Nose-it ball. It lets one cube out at a time and makes the horse move to eat. He has to work! (its also noisy!) so you know what he's doing.

You'll figure out what works for Fury. He's a normal horse if he's protesting! Just remember, wild horses dont have lush pastures. They have to move miles a day to survive. They also burn off what they eat.

You can do this!
Mandy in VA
EC First Responder
OCT 2003

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