What is APF? I've seen it mentioned here many ties, but don't know what it is and how it works.

She is still having some mild discomfort, and now won't eat anything
but soaked orchard grass hay. Her manure is very runny and black.
Her stomach gurgles. I'm awaiting a response from the vet.

Two questions--

Is there a different low carb food I could be tempting her with

right

now instead of the Sterret Low Carb hay pellets?

Gosh Lisa, I'm so sorry for you and Juel.

Black runny manure and colicky-ness makes me think of colonic
ulcers. Have you gone over that possibility with your vet? To my
knowledge, there isn't a medical cure for *colon* ulcers. It would
be diet changes... pre-biotics and long stemmed fiber, I think. Of
course, maybe you've already been through this discussion with your
vet?

Do you have Triple Crown feeds in your area? If so, TC Lite is a
nice low carb pellet. Also, of course, ODTB cubes are a real godsend.

Best of luck,
Rebecca

I'm sorry for leaving so much of the previous message, but wanted you
to be able to read without searching for previous posts.

The vet decided to prescribe a human medication, I believe it's for
Crohn's disease, called Azathioprine. Even though Juel had been
eating more and gaining weight, I began the meds 7 days ago. Four
days into it, Juel began to lose her appetite again, got very bad
diarrhea, and colicked 2 nights ago. Per the vet's advice I stopped
the med and gave her Banamine which got her over the immediate discomfort.

She is still having some mild discomfort, and now won't eat anything
but soaked orchard grass hay. Her manure is very runny and black.
Her stomach gurgles. I'm awaiting a response from the vet.

Two questions--

Is there a different low carb food I could be tempting her with right
now instead of the Sterret Low Carb hay pellets?

Is this new development caused from a reaction to the Azathioprine
because she's IR or Cushing's?

Thanks,

Lisa and Juel
http://www.sportshorses.com/cases/lisagaughran.Juel.htm





--- In EquineCushings@..., "lisagaughran" <lisamidala@...>
wrote:

After many vet visits and tests done, Juel has been diagnosed with
chronic irritable bowel disease.

I've got her eating soaked hay twice a day. She still gets her low
carb pellets (Sterrets) but won't eat them unless I mix them with
regular orchard grass pellets and sunflower seeds, and she gets this
mix twice a day. She still gets 2 lbs beet pulp with flax and
sunflower seeds and minerals. I've bought her a grazing muzzle now
and she gets out on pasture about an hour a day with it on. I can't
tell if she's gaining weight or not--I'm going to start taping her
weekly. I feel like her diet's spiraling out of control, but if she
won't eat, she'll die.

She had some bad diarrhea for a bit but I got it under control using
Fast Track.

I guess steroids are the treatment for this condition, but since Juel
is IR/Cushing's the vet is nervous about her having a laminitis
episode. She wants to start her on a mild dose of prednisolone to
start out with. Any ideas about this? Any ideas on helping us at

all?

Lisa and Juel
http://www.sportshorses.com/cases/lisagaughran.Juel.htm (I need to
update her case history)

Don

I don't like to do
anything with the horse that could compromise his ability to flee, or
fight. Even grazing muzzles trouble me for that reason. The other

horses

learn quickly enough the muzzled horse can't fight back using all his
faculties.

Has anyone considered a modified grazing muzzle AND stall or paddock
feeding of hay? Or is that too simple a solution?

Modified muzzle...How? and what do you mean by stall or paddock
feeding?

My mare has no problems fighting back if she has to with a muzzle on.
She still have all four feet to use and has learned to use the muzzle
as a weapon as well. Get clocked with it in the head once and you know
what kind of a weapon that type of weight at the end of a horse's head
can be!

Brandi

Has this been a problem with those pellets? Has anyone else experienced
this? Is there a sure way to find out if they are, besides smelling
them?
Ute

Ute, I too have noticed a "not so great smell" associated with the
pellets occasionally. Usually the horses will still eat them, but
twice I have had horses refuse to eat them at all.

I must admit that I have not contacted Linda about it, believing that
perhaps there was some legitimate reason for the odor or that I was
just imagining things. I'm allergic to hay anyway, so tend not to
take big whiffs of it!

Lisa and Juel

---Sorry it's glycinate.
michelle o

From ages ago...13500

Linda

---Sorry it's glycinate.
michelle o

sold me some magnesium Glyconate. Can I use these caps once
my current form of magnesium runs out?
thanks
michelle o

Hmmm...interesting since I would be concerned with the word *glyco*
(glucose) in any product.

I did an archive search and don't see it mentioned before...

Linda

I walked into a compounding pharmacy 4 months back and the pharmacist
sold me some magnesium Glyconate. He said it was a very absorbable
form of magnesium. I paid 25.00 for 100 capsules at 700mg per cap. I
haven't used any yet. It was a panic purchase way back then. Does
anyone know or heard of magnesium glyconate? Can I use these caps once
my current form of magnesium runs out?
thanks
michelle o

If using human magnesium supplement does is have to still be oxide?

Thanks!

Jamie

Good question!

No - MagOx just happens to be one of two that I know of that you can
get in bulk for livestock. The other is magnesium carbonate.

Just make certain you get the right number of grams of the human
tablets into the horse and you'll be fine!

Linda
On the West

If my feed

store buys from the same place every time, wouldn't my minerals and
vitamins basically be the same?

I also found at the USGS website, it gives a breakdown of minerals for
the area where my hay is grown, would this be sufficient?

Lori

Lori - ask away! That's what it is all about.

Where do you live? There are a couple of specially made supplements
for some regions. One of those might be a fit for you...although the
analysis remains the best bet.

Hard to answer your question about hay being sort of the same from the
same place. I bought some hay earlier this summer, tested it, bought
more and tested it and the mineral profiles were darn close. S/s were
different, but you already know that can change.

On the other hand, I, and others have bought hay that was guaranteed
*from the same place* and it was nothing close...not that there was
deception involved, but maybe lack of understanding that buying hay
from grower Bob who lives 10 miles away from grower Tom is not *the same.*

I have some analyses of hay grown in a small area in Northern
California. There is nothing similar at all.

These posts from Dr Kellon might be of use about soil/minerals 112803
and 90727.

Hope these help...

Linda
On the West

If using human magnesium supplement does is have to still be oxide? Thanks!

Jamie

I have a question about balencing my hay for my laminitic IR horse. I
had posted before that I can only store 8 to 10 bales at a time, so it
isn't cost effective to test my hay every time I get hay. If my feed
store buys from the same place every time, wouldn't my minerals and
vitamins basically be the same? So if I can test it once I have a
starting point as to what minerals & vitamins I need to add? I
understand that the NSC will be different because of growing time and
cutting time. Am I wrong?

I also found at the USGS website, it gives a breakdown of minerals for
the area where my hay is grown, would this be sufficient?

Sorry to keep asking.
Lori

I am switching my mare from liquid pergolide from the vet to capsules from
Ian. Unfortunately the bottle of pergolide I have now has just expired, but
my capsules haven't arrived yet (should be here by early next week).

I'm wondering if I should continue giving my mare the liquid pergo even
though it's expired. Is there ANY effectiveness at this point? Or perhaps more
importantly is there any harm in giving her the expired product while waiting
for the capsules to come in?

Thank you so much!!

Sossity



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I'd add APF to her regimin and see if that resolves the problems.  Tom, who always was a bit herd bound and a bit goofy  got more timid and even goofier on the pergolide.  We added APF and he calmed down quite a bit.
 
Nan
Thomas
IL/ME




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

(snip)
Has this been a problem with those pellets? Has anyone else experienced
this? Is there a sure way to find out if they are, besides smelling
them?
Ute

Can't you send a sample to a testing lab?  Once when some of us at a barn thought the hay was moldy smelling and the management denied it we sent sample to testing lab and it cam back sky high.
 
Another way is to send a sample of teh smelly pellets, with a polite letter, to the manufacturer.  Usually they will then test it.
 
Nan
Thomas
ME/IL

--- In EquineCushings@..., "5 Pine Ranch"
<fivepineranch@...> wrote:

Hi. I would prefer to feed the Teff hay and we can help

counteract that high iron with good balancing.

Amberlee
www.fivepineranch.com
Please Visit Our Site!

Thank you, Linda and Amberlee, for the quick response. I immediately
called the grower and reserved enough Teff hay for the year. I will
retest it once I bring it home to make sure the numbers are right.
After the test is complete, I will fill out the hay form and ask for
help again. I really am thankful I don't have to face this challenge
alone.

Debby and Monte

I got my first order about one month ago and they are fine. Koko loves
them.
Karen,
Chantilly, Tommi and Koko--- >

Hi, Ute,

I've never had any problems with the Mid-Valley pellets smelling odd

or

seeming moldy.

I know of only one person whose pellets did become moldy, but there

was

apparently a direct source of water/condensation dripping on them, as

I

recall.

Consider adding APF - Google Auburn Labs. We've had good reports on the use of this supplement in Cushing's horses.


Amberlee
www.fivepineranch.com
Please Visit Our Site!

Hi. I would prefer to feed the Teff hay and we can help counteract that high iron with good balancing.

Amberlee
www.fivepineranch.com
Please Visit Our Site!