Date   

Re: was feed, now new case history file

 


I got the same file open & saved but it was garbage and unreadable. Not
sure if the problem is at my end or ???
Working on it ...

Patti


Re: feed

idlerranch2@...
 

I got the analysis back from Triple Crown
They said that the cubes do not have a guaranteed NSC content and would vary just as any hay supple does. They have tested between 6.6%-14% but are not guaranteed to test below any certain percentage.
Crude Protein 8%
Crude Fiber 38%
Crude Fat 2%
Moisture 12%
The lady that emailed said they also have a Timothy Balancer Cube that is beet pulp and timoth hay that does have a lower NSC and a Triple Crown Safe Starch Forage that is guaranteed to be NSC 10% or lower.

Can anyone give me some advise on all of this?
Thank you so much
Dannice


---- Joan and Dazzle <horsies4luv@...> wrote:

Glad you're here. Ask all the questions that you want.

Joan and Dazzle



Re: Winter Laminitis

 

Right now
all I am adding (if he eats) is magnesium, salt, and vit e.
Why don't you back off the mag a bit until you can get the hay tested.


Using J-herb and AAKG aren't going to be as effective w/o a tight
diet.
- I figured that, but was hoping to get him through this without a
full blown episode.
Won't hurt - just might not get full benefit

- Nope - he won't even eat it plain! The only thing he had been
eating is about a cup of the Blue Seal Carb-Guard twice a day - but
nothing added to it. If you add the Carb Guard to the BP, he no
longer wants it.
He doesn't "need" beet pulp - as you know it's either a "replacement" for higher
sugar/starch hay or grain, or additional low sugar/starch calories for weight gain.
Did the diarrhea start AFTER he stopped eating beet pulp (which would make me think to
maybe add some pectin to his diet (though I presume you have already tried
kaolin/pectate - cheaper at the cow feed store than the human kaopectate version).
If it started after beginning the Blue Seal ... then could be he doesn't like something in
that.

- I had planned on starting to soak to see what happened. It is
just a matter of getting the old cart/bin/hay bags out which have
been buried in the barn since the hay had never tested high in sugar
since way back when...
Let us know if it helps.


and I just got overwhelmed and thought - he's not
eating BP anyways so really hard to get minerals so just didn't
bother. It is odd though, he has been eating this hay since August
and the minerals have not been tight since last summer, and I just
noticed him being a bit off starting a couple weeks ago. Could be a
cumulative effect, but the weather has been REALLY cold the past
couple weeks, then warmed up and got really wet - so thinking it
could be that more that than anything.
It could be cumulative, the weather not helping, combined with the diet not tight...

Wishing I had kept a notebook
of just his symptoms, because I am convinced he got foot sore the
past two February's and I may have tightened up some things and it
helped.
Good spot to get in a plug about keeping journals - we used to mention this a lot and was
a life saver for some of us - whether kept in a looseleaf or in a computer file. Great to
have to review with your vet, also. The info that's in the case history form (in the files in
folder #9) is the kind of info to keep in a journal.

Sorry Digger's not doing well but nice to see you back.
Thanks! You don't want a pony, do you? <vbg>
Well, if you can tuck him in a puppy crate and ship him overnight to Tucson, I do have an
empty stall : ) Or I could just ship you some cactus, which my horses think is better than
any old carrots.

Patti K
Vail AZ


Re: was feed, now new case history file

idlerranch2@...
 

That was my problem also.

Dannice

I got the same file open & saved but it was garbage and unreadable. Not
sure if the problem is at my end or ???

Patti?



Valeree


Re: was feed, now new case history file

Valeree Smith
 

My computer won't open Doc files so I can't fill one out.
I got the same file open & saved but it was garbage and unreadable. Not sure if the problem is at my end or ???

Patti?



Valeree


Re: feed

idlerranch2@...
 

My computer won't open Doc files so I can't fill one out.

---- plwoodbury <DesertHorses@...> wrote:


Hi Dannice ~

Folder #7 in the files at http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files has
detailed info on hay analysis.

Also, go to
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/9%20Case%20Histories/
and fill out a case history form - this will help the list greeters and volunteers to get you
going in the right direction. (This is a new Case History system we're using so let us know
if you have problems with it : )

Patti K
Vail AZ



Re: feed

idlerranch2@...
 

I just talked to Thrifty Feed and they told me about the ton buying. I would be concerned about the shelf life in buying by the ton. I need to get my hay tested before I decide which way to go.
Where in Vancouver do you live? We are in La Center.
Thank you for the info.

Dannice
---- >


Re: feed

dancewithlife18
 

Hi Dannice,

I live in Vancouver, WA and the only hay type feed that is available,
to my knowledge, in our area is the Sterret Pellets. You can get them
from Thrifty Feed or if you want to save the tax you can go to
Concentrates Inc. in Portland. With either company you need to buy them
a ton at a time. I got really lucky this past year and got hay that
worked for my mare but by the end of summer she will be out so I'll be
hay hunting again or ordering the pellets again this year.

Courtney, Lela and Lady
www.msredshorsecookies.com


Re: News about Kasha

Cindy McGinley
 

"grayarabiankasha" <kvshopping@...> wrote:

So I hope I am not jumping the gun by reporting this, but I have to
share my news. I will keep posting updates on his condition. Cross
fingers, pray, send good energy -- and all of it back at ya :-)

It's always a lift to hear good news about one of these horses. I'm so glad Kasha is doing better! Keep up the good work!

- Cindy and Alf (and entourage) in NY


Re: To unsubscribe from the list--was please remove me ALSO...

Claire C. Cox-Wilson <shotgun.ranch@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Kelly Courtney"
<homebodees@...> wrote:

I tried to unsubscribe by using the "Unsubscribe" address below, but the
address didn't pull up (tried more than once, but same result).
Could you
please try to see if it will work for you and unsubscribe me. Please
let me
know how it goes.
Thanks a lot,

Kelly Courtney
Kelly & Jessica,

You have to leave the group yourselves.
No one can do it for you.
As a moderator, I could ban you but then you wouldn't be allowed to
return later, if you wanted to.
To unsubscribe:
Go to the groups HOME page.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/
Click on EDIT MEMBERSHIP (task bar just above group name)
You can choose to LEAVE the group (all the way at the bottom, to your
right) or choose DAILY DIGEST rather than individual emails.
If you want to leave because of the email volume?
A daily digest rather than individual emails, makes a big difference.
Let me know if you have any questions or if I can be of any further help.
Claire from AZ
EC List Monitor/Moderator

http://members.cox.net/shotgun.ranch
http://witcheyladycreations.com


Re: please remove me ALSO...

Mandy Woods
 

Kelly,
I sent an email for you so I'll let you know if it worked.
Mandy


Re: Winter Laminitis

suebonitati <maitai@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "plwoodbury"
<DesertHorses@...> wrote:

Hi Sue ~

Have you been testing hay/updating mineral balancing right along
or "estimating" the
magnesium and salt, etc needed with your hay?
Right now, yes. Probably started doing this about September (after
over 4 years of being really tight on everything). The amount of
salt has never really changed over the years. The magnesium did
vary from year to year. When the loose manure started - I took away
all supplements, and then slowly started adding them back in to see
if it mattered. I would think I had it figured out, then the loose
stool would start up again. He had been getting phosphorus,
magnesium, cinnamon, chromium, custom blend, vit e, and flax, and
started adding spirulina to help with his eye allergies. Right now
all I am adding (if he eats) is magnesium, salt, and vit e.

Using J-herb and AAKG aren't going to be as effective w/o a tight
diet.

- I figured that, but was hoping to get him through this without a
full blown episode.

Will Digger eat BP without the custom minerals added? If you've
been "away", there are some new files up on picky eaters.

- Nope - he won't even eat it plain! The only thing he had been
eating is about a cup of the Blue Seal Carb-Guard twice a day - but
nothing added to it. If you add the Carb Guard to the BP, he no
longer wants it. I have all sorts or herbs/flavorings and sometimes
things work once and then never work again :) It gets me pretty
frustrated.

Is it possible to soak some of his hay. I totally understand the
problems of soaking in NY in February but it's a no-cost (in
dollars) way to determine if high sugar/starch is the culprit.

- I had planned on starting to soak to see what happened. It is
just a matter of getting the old cart/bin/hay bags out which have
been buried in the barn since the hay had never tested high in sugar
since way back when...

I do think it would be cost effective in the long run to go ahead
and get this hay tested. And there could be the (admittedly remote)
chance that it might reasonably balance with a little boost from
something like Poulin's Carb Safe available in your area if he's
still off the BP.

- I know - I had actually kept back three bales from each load and
had them stacked in my barn to get tested. I usually get the hay
corer from the local co-op extension, and then one of my many
competition dogs got diagnosed with lymphoma and I lost two of my
elderly cats, and I just got overwhelmed and thought - he's not
eating BP anyways so really hard to get minerals so just didn't
bother. It is odd though, he has been eating this hay since August
and the minerals have not been tight since last summer, and I just
noticed him being a bit off starting a couple weeks ago. Could be a
cumulative effect, but the weather has been REALLY cold the past
couple weeks, then warmed up and got really wet - so thinking it
could be that more that than anything.

As far as Cushings - it does sound like he's heading there but you
won't know w/o testing.

- My vet wanted to test him in the fall and I said I wanted to wait
til springtime. He is not drinking tons or urinating tons, his coat
is the same thick Thewell pony type he gets every winter, but it
sheds out beautifully, the fat pockets above his eyes are gone right
now, and other than his goopy eyes, and this past year of loose
manure, his feet have been okay (well the white line never went back
to normal - always a bit stretched). Wishing I had kept a notebook
of just his symptoms, because I am convinced he got foot sore the
past two February's and I may have tightened up some things and it
helped.

Sorry Digger's not doing well but nice to see you back.

Thanks! You don't want a pony, do you? <vbg>

Sue & Digger


Watery Eyes

Jennie
 

Anything new information out there on the watery eye problem
associated with many IR horses? I would love to know what the
underlying cause for it is, and of course, any ideas how to best
approach controlling it. My horse is insulin compensated and since
making suggested dietary changes, limiting turnout and adding more
exercise, he has lost his fat patches and is full of energy and doing
great. At first it seemed his watery eye problem was a bit better also
but now I don't think so. He will shut his eyes and big clear drips
will fall out. When he eats or I groom him, many times he has his eyes
partially closed and they always need wiping in the AM. However, he
can be bright eyed at times, especially after exercising him. Of
course, my vet has checked him numerous times and says there is no
inflammation, and it's just "allergies". I don't buy that.
Since I have read that Dr Kellon says MSM can be helpful for
allergies, I am wondering if any one has had any success in using it
for watery eyes.
My guy is on beet pulp, soaked coastal hay, iodized salt, vitamin E,
flax and CoQ10.


Re: please remove me ALSO...

Kelly Courtney
 

Dear Mandy,

I tried to unsubscribe by using the "Unsubscribe" address below, but the
address didn't pull up (tried more than once, but same result). Could you
please try to see if it will work for you and unsubscribe me. Please let me
know how it goes.



Thanks a lot,

Kelly Courtney

homebodees@...



_____

From: EquineCushings@... [mailto:EquineCushings@...]
On Behalf Of Mandy Woods
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 10:10 AM
To: EquineCushings@...
Subject: Re: [EquineCushings] please remove me ALSO...



Kelly and Jessica,
You can unsubscribe yourselves easily. Scroll down to the bottom of this



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Re: body condition

 

Im not sure
decreasing her food is the correct answer.
Jean and Lady
Hi Jean ~

Cute mare. I don't think her belly is "huge" - but probably more noticeable as she is finely
made. Her overall weight looks fine and I wouldn't be surprised if her tummy tucks up when
she gets more exercise in the spring. You could probably speed that up by doing some belly
lifts and/or cavelleti work with her.
Cushings could be a contributor - as you've already figured out, can't tell until you test.
I wouldn't be concerned about her "winter belly" - unless there's a boyfriend you don't know
about : )
Good job on the G:I ratio.

Patti K
Vail AZ


Re: Winter Laminitis

 


Would it be okay until then to just put him on the jiagulon/AAKG
until then to help with this most recent episode?

Thanks
Sue & Digger
Hi Sue ~

Have you been testing hay/updating mineral balancing right along or "estimating" the
magnesium and salt, etc needed with your hay?
Using J-herb and AAKG aren't going to be as effective w/o a tight diet.
Will Digger eat BP without the custom minerals added? If you've been "away", there are
some new files up on picky eaters.
Is it possible to soak some of his hay. I totally understand the problems of soaking in NY
in February but it's a no-cost (in dollars) way to determine if high sugar/starch is the
culprit. I do think it would be cost effective in the long run to go ahead and get this hay
tested. And there could be the (admittedly remote) chance that it might reasonably
balance with a little boost from something like Poulin's Carb Safe available in your area if
he's still off the BP.
As far as Cushings - it does sound like he's heading there but you won't know w/o testing.
Sorry Digger's not doing well but nice to see you back.

Patti K
Vail AZ


body condition

Jean
 

Based on new photos posted, please help us determine correct feed
amounts for Lady. she is 22 yrs old and we are worried about the hay
belly she has developed. Little history: in the fall she was taped at
about 845 lbs and she was ribby. To prep for winter she was getting 13
lbs cubes, 3-4 lbs BP (for weight gain), 1 flake soaked hay. 850 lbs x
2%=17 lbs total per day.
Her weight now is between 875 and 900lbs by tape in mid winter. this
is the first time she has been able to keep weight on her in winter.
We are happy, but concerned about the belly. We have decreased BP to 2
lbs total per day and cubes to 12 lbs per day. (total 15 lbs feed per
day) Also had fecal egg count done to rule out parasite- this was
negative. Her insulin is the best yet w/ a ratio of 10.86!!
Question: Are we making the correct adjustments to her feed. I think
her body condition is below a five, no fat noticable, just a big ol'
belly. No other symptoms of cushings, I have not done ACTH yet,
cortisols levels have always been normal and she has no other symptoms.
Is this just normal changes for the older horse? Im not sure
decreasing her food is the correct answer.
Jean and Lady


Re: feed

 

Having never tested hay before I don't know how to go about it. Any advise?

Thanks for the input it is much appreciated.

Dannice and Rocket

Hi Dannice ~

Folder #7 in the files at http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files has
detailed info on hay analysis.

Also, go to
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/9%20Case%20Histories/
and fill out a case history form - this will help the list greeters and volunteers to get you
going in the right direction. (This is a new Case History system we're using so let us know
if you have problems with it : )

Patti K
Vail AZ


Re: Corn gluten meal

 

--- In EquineCushings@..., 5 Pine Ranch
<fivepineranch@> wrote:

A high protein by-product of corn wet-milling used for livestock
feed

Hmmm...it actually sounds like it's "safe"--it's in my magnesium
supplement that I was going to drop because of the ingredient. Can I
still use it??
Thanks for answering--dumb me didn't even think of looking in the
dictionary, and I'm an English instructor...

Kathy & Kasha
Hi Kathy ~

If you look at the Dairy One Feed Composition Library,
http://www.dairyone.com/Forage/FeedComp/mainlibrary.asp
you can find the NSC, sugar/starch and other nutrient levels for most "feed" ingredients.
Corn gluten "feed" and "meal" are both moderately high NSC . In the small amounts used
as a supplement filler this might be no problem for some horses but for a sensitive horse
even these small amounts might be "too much".
You need to be the judge of your horse's sensitivity - if he's doing well, issues resolved
and no new problems, then he probably tolerates it fine. If he continues to have unresolved
issues then you might want to review diet for seemingly small problem contributors.

Patti K
Vail AZ


Re: please remove me ALSO...

Mandy Woods
 

Kelly and Jessica,
You can unsubscribe yourselves easily. Scroll down to the bottom of this

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