cjspackman wrote:

I wish to share some information I learned today that may be important
to horse owners on this group. I do not wish to be alarmist with this
post my intension is to educate.



Regards,

Clair

Feed contamination like this does occur. Heck ... I've found cat food in my horse feed, yup ... the hollow cheereo shaped stuff. I even tasted it ... yup ... ick.
Of course I hadn't eaten cat food since I was very you.... meeeeooooow

(sorry ... couldn't resist)

We strongly recommend that all of the members check their feed all the time. You just never know what you're going to find - although I've never found money yet. Maybe we should start a subject on ECPhotos as to the strangest things that we've found in our horse's feed. (Yup ... rescued a live field mouse from the feed tub one night too).

Paul.

Hi, 'luvduffpony'- could you please sign your posts so everyone knows
what to call you :) Thanks.
The reaction you saw is not uncommon and is fixable. Just start more
slowly and taper the dose up gradually until your pony's system gets
used to the effects of the pergolide. Starting at 1/4mg once a day,
then adding another 1/4mg 3-4 days later, and so on until you get to
the full dose will help. Also, split the dose into two times a day as
you increase to also help with the droopy, lethargic problem.

Do you know what test was run to diagnose your pony? Can you get the
actual results- numbers and lab normals? This will help us give you
better answers. I believe the case histories are still down so if you
would just post all the info directly on the list for now we can help
you figure all this out. Welcome and don't worry, things will turn out
OK. Kudos to your vet for recognising things and pushing you to treat
before your pony foundered.

Lavinia

Oh- OK- It's the antibody to C6.. now I understand what Dr. R meant.
It's the 3DX Dog test ( Lyme being one of the 3 conditions being
tested for - heartworm and something else I don't remember being the
other 2 in Dogs.)

I didn't know it was being used for horse blood... My vet doesn't use
that test for Lyme testing in horses....
Hmmmmm Cornell has verified it's accurate on horses?

Barb



--- In EquineCushings@..., "Eleanor Kellon, VMD"
<drkellon@...> wrote:

You can access my Lyme article from last year, in Horse Journal,

here:

http://www.myhorse.com/health/preventative/be_alert_to_lyme.aspx?

ht=#top

Information on the test on page 2.

The C6 antigen test was developed initially to differentiate

between

vaccinated and naturally infected dogs. I might have information on

the

antibody classes buried in my AOL mail if I can get in there. The

stall

side test is qualitative, although some practitioners interviewed

are

using the intensity of the band as a rough indicator of response to
therapy. The mail in Idexx C6 test is quantitative, actual titer.

Eleanor

I wish to share some information I learned today that may be important
to horse owners on this group. I do not wish to be alarmist with this
post my intension is to educate.

I have a client (I'm an equine nutritionist) with a horse who has
previously foundered who is feeding one of the popular low NSC feeds.
She called me yesterday to say she thought she had bought the wrong
thing because it looked different but on 2nd looks the tag says she
bought the correct thing. On further questioning I found out that she
felt she saw the normal pellets but also flakes of corn. Obviously I
told her not to feed it and called the company whose feed it is. I
was told that at the end of a batch they run the mill through with
corn to flush it out. Sometimes when the next batch of compounded
feed is mixed corn can be found in the first few bags. These bags are
sold to cattle farmers. The person I spoke to (the companies
nutritionist) told me that somehow one of these bags must have got
into a shipment to a feed store where my client bought it. Luckily as
the feed is typically 100% pelleted this error was pretty easy to spot
but I am worried for those of you who may be feeding textured feeds
and who may not notice something like this as easily. The mill that
manufacturers this feed also contracts with other feed companies and
makes feeds for them.

I know from being on this list that you are all probably the most
observant horse owners out there as far as looking at your horses
feed, but I wanted to bring this up as to some of your horses such a
mistake could have devastating consequences. As I said I do not wish
to be alarmist and I do not know if this is a standard industry
practice but I wanted everyone to be aware.

Regards,

Clair

Is it possible they mean Teff hay?

Found this:

http://www.targetseed.com/varieties/Tiffany.pdf


Judy
http://icehorses.net
http://clickryder.com

Does anyone have any experience with Tiffany Hay?

Is it possible they mean Teff hay?

I will go back to them and ask. Thanks!


Judy
http://icehorses.net
http://clickryder.com

Does anyone have any experience with Tiffany Hay?

Judy,

Is it possible they mean Teff hay?

The link looks like it's more of a grass for lawns.


Valeree (also So Cal)

Sandy said (in response to Frank Reilly):

"I noticed the snacks or treats you suggested: sugarless hard
candy made for diabetic humans. I remember these being discussed here
a while ago, and it was felt that artificial sweeteners might not be
good for IR and Cushing's horses, either."

I offered my IR mare a sugar-free peppermint (before I read on the list that
they were possibly bad for IR), and she spit it right out. So did my non-IR
gelding. Both had previously LOVED having a peppermint or two - just the
sound of the crackling cellophane would put them in a tizzy. Smart horses -
they weren't to be fooled that easily! ;-) Seriously, though, I was thinking
it was because maybe they had lost their yen for sweet stuff, both having
been on the low-sugar IR diet for quite some time. They now consider a thin
"slice" off of an alfalfa cube to be every bit the delectable treat that
their beloved peppermints and ginger snaps used to be.

Sue (& Libby, the IR mare, in Catlett, VA)

Hi Angela,
I have mailed Simple Systems feeds to see if I can find out what they put in Metaslim, I'm not holding my breath!!
Harrys paddock is just dirt, no vegitation, however we have a larger paddock which we sprayed with chemical in Sept, which is very short dead grass, not sure about it for Harry maybe we'll have to plough it.
My trimmer was waiting because my last farrier took his toes right back and we've been waiting for them to grow, my new trimmer is excellent he only does remedial work, hes trained with Jackson and Ramey, he was also a traditional farrier so I have lots of faith in him. He has a very holistic approach. So as soon as the abcess bursts and he will weight bear on all his feet then we can get a proper trim. I have put his xray photos up for you to see.
His blood results have been explained to me as so - They can't give me an exact number because 300 is the top of their scale, so his insulin is in excess of 300!!
I have cut down on hay and fed more beet for the last 3 days and he is alot brighter, he went out yesterday, first time in 3 days and hes moving around the paddock much easier, however he decided not to come out today his abcess is causing him alot of pain, I'm soaking his foot several times a day in Epsom salts.
Ive been gathering all my ingredients together and will put him on the emergency diet tomorrow, how much Flax oil would you recimmend?
Lin




---------------------------------
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luvduffpony wrote:

Hi - I would like some help from anyone who has a pony on Pergolide.
I am still very scared of something happening to him because I feel that he is very allergic to the Pergolide. At the same time, I don't want him to founder because of the Cushings. If anyone has had an experience like mine, please answer me on this message board. I'd appreciate it very much. Thanks!

We had a pony on Pergolide, and she went a little strange on it as well at first. We stopped dosing her gave her a week or so off (until she was back to normal). Then we started again with a much reduced dosage. We were okay at that level, and then gradually increased the dosage to where she became asymptomatic. We increased it once per week. I'd have to ask my other half what she adjusted the dosage by. I don't remember, but we were on the 1mg pills, but we crushed them in a paper bindle and would divide it at that time.

You may find that 0.5mL is too much ... you may have to cut that in half to 0.25mL if possible. Basically start small and gradually work your way up. If you notice changes, back off to the prior dose and hold there a bit longer.

Goldie did quite well on pergolide and tight dietary control, right to the end.

Paul Davis

Does anyone have any experience with Tiffany Hay?

My horses are on Bermuda, and have been for years, but one of the local feed stores hasn't had bermuda for a month, but just got in a load of Tiffany. We are in So California, and the load came from Nevada.

I tried a web search on "tiffany hay" but evidently there's a person with that name, so the results were articles about this person.

"Tiffany grass" came up with this: http://www.fescue.com/info/tiffany.html

So far, I can still get bermuda at the other local feed store, but I wanted to check on the tiffany in case there's a problem later on.

Thanks.


Judy
http://icehorses.net
http://clickryder.com

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the EquineCushings
group.

File : /Hay -- Members worksheets & Feed Analysis/PD189092.pdf
Uploaded by : llkeach50 <LLKeach@...>
Description : grass hay analysis

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/Hay%20--%20Members%20worksheets%20%26%20Feed%20Analysis/PD189092.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

llkeach50 <LLKeach@...>

I think you probably have mixed grass hay, the kind common here in
the Finger Lakes region of central NY. That's the kind Penny gets.
It's basically a grassy field mowed and made into hay. It has orchard
grass, a little clover, some weeds, etc. What you'd find in a grassy
field or a pasture.
--

No clover or orchard grass, I have had orchard grass from this same

farmer, but not in this batch.
Linda and Scooter

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Kathleen Gustafson"
<katmando@...> wrote:

--- In EquineCushings@..., "llkeach50" <LLKeach@>
wrote:
Linda, post the digestible energy and crude protein too. Yes,
manganese is high. KFG

Digestible energy is .85 crude protein is 8.5

I have never had manganese higher than 36 around here. It was not this
high from the same farmer last year, but this is baled from a different
field. What could make the manganese that high?

Linda and Scooter.

Hi - I would like some help from anyone who has a pony on
Pergolide. Two years ago, my vet told me he wanted him on
Pergolide, so I got him the Suspension - my vet told me to give him
1 ml a day. On the second or third day, my pony looked the worst I
have ever seen him since I've had him. His head was almost to the
ground and he looked like he would fall down. He was just
completely out of it and I thought he had colicked. From what I've
read on the posts here, it seems like being lethargic is one of the
side effects of Pergolide. I told my vet, but he told me that the
Pergolide wouldn't have caused it, and it probably was a
coincidence, although I highly doubt that. I stopped the Pergolide
at that point, and he started to act normal again. This past week,
my vet did another test for Cushings and said my pony's levels were
double what they were two years ago, so he said I should put him on
the Pergolide, or I was taking the chance that he could founder - I
told him that I was afraid to give him the Pergolide again, and he
said I could start him at a smaller dose - I am getting the tabs
this time instead of the suspension and giving him half a 1 ml
instead of the 1 ml dose, although the vet tells me it won't do any
good and should be 1 ml, but he said that I can start him off at 1/2
the dose.

I am still very scared of something happening to him because I feel
that he is very allergic to the Pergolide. At the same time, I
don't want him to founder because of the Cushings. If anyone has
had an experience like mine, please answer me on this message
board. I'd appreciate it very much. Thanks!

--- In EquineCushings@..., "equimedsurg"
<equimedsurg@...> wrote:

Dear Rita:

1. Insulin should not be run on edta blood. Quest Labs, which is
the largest human lab in the world, will verify. Also, Ford's
Veterinary procedures 2006, page 623, says no edta. Some labs will
run edta blood and not ask but it is best to avoid.

If you are going to give out information, PLEASE make sure it is
correct first.

http://diaglab.vet.cornell.edu/test/detail.asp?testcode=INS

Either serum or EDTA can be used. They offer a combined ACTH and
insulin package for $35, **EDTA only**

http://diaglab.vet.cornell.edu/test/detail.asp?testcode=ACTHIN

I'm quite sure Cornell validated their assay (double sandwich ELISA I
think) for EDTA plasma.

Eleanor

At 8:17 PM +0000 1/11/08, Dr. Frank K. Reilly wrote:

I just wanted the group to know of a site with over 25 pages of
information on Insulin Resistance and that it helps with ... great
safe snacks...

I noticed the snacks or treats you suggested: sugarless hard
candy made for diabetic humans. I remember these being discussed here
a while ago, and it was felt that artificial sweeteners might not be
good for IR and Cushing's horses, either. I forget the details, but
search the past messages for more info. You might want to revise your
thinking on safe treats.
While you're at it, look at all the suggestions for safe
horse treats that have been mentioned here in the past. And Lori, a
list member, makes Skode's treats, which horses really love. Try them
for your horses rather than candy with artificial sweeteners.
--

Sandy Su
ssu@...

Nope, you didn't answer anything that I didn't already know (from the
wonderful experience of this group).

I'm a registered veterinary technician, I am plenty familiar which type
of samples are needed, not to mention the fact that most all the labs
will tell you exactly their submission protocols.

Where have you published anything? All my searches for you published
research (and I mean peer reviewed journals, not your web pages) has
turned up nothing at all. The only things I find you've submitted are
letters to the editors criticizing other people's work as well or a
couple monetary donations to well meaning organizations.

Again, no answers...... Anyone can do quotes. You really do not know
how to answer questions at all. Of course, monitoring tells you how
diet affects the body. That is what this group teaches, have you
figured that part out yet??

Rita Lockridge, RVT
Indiana

You can access my Lyme article from last year, in Horse Journal, here:

http://www.myhorse.com/health/preventative/be_alert_to_lyme.aspx?ht=#top

Information on the test on page 2.

The C6 antigen test was developed initially to differentiate between
vaccinated and naturally infected dogs. I might have information on the
antibody classes buried in my AOL mail if I can get in there. The stall
side test is qualitative, although some practitioners interviewed are
using the intensity of the band as a rough indicator of response to
therapy. The mail in Idexx C6 test is quantitative, actual titer.

Eleanor

Dear Rita:

1. Insulin should not be run on edta blood. Quest Labs, which is
the largest human lab in the world, will verify. Also, Ford's
Veterinary procedures 2006, page 623, says no edta. Some labs will
run edta blood and not ask but it is best to avoid.

2. Insulin baseline at Cornell is $15.50. Quest Lab send blood there
also, so you can avoid ship charges. They charge $30.00 for Insulin
and $8.25 for Glucose.

3. ACTH - can use edta blood. It is preferred. Multiple
references. Ford's, page 617.

4. I hope this has been of help. Multiple Insulin monitoring of
your horse tells you how diet is affecting his body directly.

Sincerely,

Dr. Frank K. Reilly
equinemedsurg.com