Date   

Re: Question on shoes under equicast?

llkeach50
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Jax The Wonder Cat"
<jaxthewondercat@...> wrote:

Thank you Abby! Yes we made a pile of sand and put her foot down in
to harden. I'm glad we won't have to mess with any other filler!!


****** After just two months in the casts Scooter is almost completely
sound. This after at least 2 years of always being at least a "little
off." , sometimes a LOT off! I am a total Equicast convert! Scooter
gets his third set of casts this evening, we are re-casting every 4
weeks at this time. We put a backward shoe underneath the cast.

Something that I find works really well for me is putting the sand in a
small shallow feed dish. It can be moved underneath the foot, in stead
of moving the foot to the pile of sand on the floor. Maybe this is
a "no brainer", but I thought I would mention it.

Linda and Scooter


Horse's weight formula?

klipklop10 <smhans950@...>
 

I cannot find the formula for figuring my horse's weight. Can someone
give that to me?

Sue & Dawn the Morgan mare
Markle, IN


Re: hay results/more/and correction

ponyjackpal <takarri@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "plwoodbury"
<DesertHorses@...> wrote:

-
I'm going to jump in too as I've been looking at your hay -
the protein at 7% is probably ok unless Jack is into fairly steady
work.
HI Patti
I appreciate you jumping in - see previous post re Jacks exercise
issue.
Actually - once he gets better I would like to try him in harness,
aside from he dangling knees, my backside won't fit in his saddle.

except it's likely low in calcium, your hay - at .22% calcium just
barely provides the NRC
will follow up minerals & add that to the oz contacts

I see they also have a new product called Fiber-Beet
http://www.britishhorsefeeds.com/fibre-beet.aspx
which has higher fiber (from alfalfa) and a little higher calcium,
the DE is slightly lower
than Speedi-Beet
will look into that feed- >
& would prefer to mix my own minerals. I am not aware yet of anyone
in oz that would make a mix up- but that will be another challenge &
thanks for the maths - it's so simple when I see it written down
cheers
pauline & jack


Re: hay results/more/and correction

ponyjackpal <takarri@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "briarskingstonnet"
<briars@...> wrote:
,
So the DE is 2 Mcal/lb as opposed to 2% .
That seems high.
I noticed that the sample is Rye grass,as well as Phalaris(I'm
not
familiar with this...yet),and something beginning with F but cut
off.Is that Fescue?
How much Rye is in that hay , do you know?

HI Lorna
Yes - the f is fescue & no idea how much rye is in bales- visibly
there doesn't seem a lot.
>& speedybeet 45gm(dry)

Really? 45?
Yes. I use approx 1 cup between both horses. I use that & the chaff
mainly to admin their supplements
.
> .Or giving more exercise,if possible.Or both.
I agree with Angela that checking his glucose and insulin might not
be a bsd idea at this point,if finances allow.(I think you said
that,Angela?)
I will be doing the full screen, the exercise bit brings a wry grin
to my face-I'm 6ft & Jack is a shetland pony-my knees would drag on
the ground!

Not sure what you mean here,by 'safe'?Sugar-wise?
I understand the safer grass concept & will be in trouble in a month
or two- but at this stage the conditions I consider to be safe.

I will still look into the minerals tho
thanks again
Tall Pauline & little Jack


Re: Input on Bridies hoof comparisons 05 to 08

brearebreazybridie
 

" Bingo, hence the toed out condormation I tend to see behind
Thanks for the information on this particular issue with gaits. Will
you please change the heading to reflect this subject for further
discussion. I am concerned people will be confused and this has gone
side wards with regards to Bridies hoof input. Thanks all:)
My original intent regarding Bridie's feet and what I had hoped to
discuss in detail, was any issues Bridie has with her hoofs at this
juncture? What specifically is required to correct any issues? Details
pertaining to and clarification on how this is to be effectively
obtained. What are the measures to be taken for these correction? What
options are available to obtain these corrections? What is required in
order to accomplish this for Bridie, myself and my Farrier? and what
are the expectations thus far with time frames to accomplish any or all
hoof issues that are noted? If additional pics or information is
required to accomplish this endeavour? I would greatly appreciate any
feed back on Bridies hoof picts at
http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/photos
Under Bridie Oct 10 05 or try
http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/photos/browse/f32a
Any assitance is appreciated Thanks again :)
Angela
jarrahbrearebreazebridie


Re: Input on Bridies hoof comparisons 05 to 08

Ute <ute@...>
 

According to Susan E. Harris in her book, "Horse Gaits, Balance and
Movement", cannons of the hind legs should be vertical and
parallel,
but the stifles and toes normally point somewhat outward. This
permits
the stifles to engage far forward without bumping against the
belly. In
this same line, the feet should point outward at the same angle as
the
stifles to avoid stress on the joints. This gives straight movement
with maximum engagement." Bingo, hence the toed out condormation I
tend to see behind
None of this seems to have any connection with "clear the front." '>
But that does not mean that it is not a part of why horses
confromation tends to be like this behind. Perhaps it does help to
clear the fronts at max speed, as this photo demonstrates:
http://pictopia.com/perl/gal?
gallery_id=11406&process=gallery&provider_id=368&ptp_photo_id=bloodhor
se%3A708504&sequencenum=0&page=

True a horse may stand or move incorrectly which will show up as
inside high or outside high until muscles relax on their own or
through therapy and he feels comfortable using new movement over the
course of > correct trimming.>

Even with correct trimming will the horse wear the hooves the way it
prefers to move. In addition, some muscles that are locked up will
never release on their own and need the help of a body worker.

Ute


Re: Complicated Founder Trim, Photos of Mel

gentpony
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Ute" <ute@...>
wrote:

- you may want to consider massage therapy to address
the muscles that might affect the front hoof wear pattern and do
specific exercise that will also tone weaker muscles that may
be contributing to the postural habits here.

Hi Ute,

I happen to have 2 books that I have not had the chance to open
yet: "Equine Massage" by J.-P. Hourdebaight, RMT and "Stretch
Exercise for your Horse" by Karin Blignault. If you are familiar
with them, perhaps you could recommend chapters or pages
which would pertain.

What are the specific muscle groups that you think need
strengthening ?

You may private mail me as this will probably be Off Topic.

We will try the Ramey thrush recipe on both our ponies.

Thank you very much for reviewing our photos and for your
observations. Sorry for the long delay--have computer access
problems.

Eva and Mel
Windsor Ont

http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHoof/photos/browse/e
45e


tweeking minerals for Copper

jvoutdoorz <jvining@...>
 

Hi everyone,

If you remember, Copper's hay supply was ruined and I was trying to
figure out what to do. We did get first cutting from the same field. I
was worried, because it was much drier, but the sugars are good:) We
are at 6.3 and .4 for a total of 6.7 (6.4 for 2nd cutting). The hay
isn't as nice looking and they don't like it quite as much as the
other, but as long as the farmer keeps it covered this will take me
through to next cuttings. I think I'm okay on the minerals that I
bought with some additions. Would someone please check? Here are my
results:

P .17
Ca .16
K 1.72
Mg .1
Na .011
Cu 8
Fe 245
Z 26
Mn 38
Mo .11

His current supplement adds the following for 18lbs of hay:
Cu 280
Z 830
Mn 450
Se 2

It looks to me like I'm just squeeking under the top end for Cu since
this cutting was a bit higher. My Fe:Cu is 5.6. Cu:Z needs another
10mg by my calculations, but since I have the custom mix done, looks
like it would be okay. Please confirm. Mn now is too low, closer to a
1:2 ratio. Can I get away with this? I know it's not ideal, but I have
enough of this mix until late May.

It also looks like I should add 15g Ca and 5.6 mg. I guess I can buy
those and a gram scale and add them in.

He is getting 14g Na which puts him at a ratio of 10. I don't think he
will tolerate any more in his food, but he has a free choice white
salt block. He also gets 3TBS flax and 2000iu vit E. Anything else?

My last concern is protein. It is at 6.3. He is going to be starting
ground work training as both vet and farrier said go on that after
this weeks x-rays. He is doing flying lead changes in the
field..yeah:) He will go on walks under saddle, but I want at least
two more trims before I put him to any more work than that. The ground
work will be good to get him using his body again since we never got
him tuned up from being a pasture pet before he foundered. So, with
gradually increasing exercise and the low protein numbers, what should
I add?

Thanks again for the ongoing help and discussions. I'm learning so
much and even my friends with healthy horses are starting to ask
questions:)

Jodie and Copper
WA


Re: temporary barn

Phyllis Begg <pbegg@...>
 

I used to board horses but gave it up. Horses were great, many of the owners were something else. I still board one horse, a special needs horse, he is 28 years old, has one eye, he is missing multiple teeth, and none of his old teeth on the bottom match any of the top ones, which makes feeding him a challenge. He can't eat hay, just quids it. Beet pulp, corn oil, and all those neat things you give horses to keep weight on give him the runs. He has been with me for ten years, and is a retired eventer. It took quite a while to find a diet that works for him, and keeps his weight up. He is blanketed in the cold months so he doesn't have to expend calories to keep warm. His owner and I are totally in agreement with his vet care and feed. I don't charge an exorbitant rate, because I like the horse and his owner, and I am no longer in the boarding business. My costs are covered and that's about it. What I am trying to say is it is difficult to find a place that is reasonable and good, but there are a few places around, just not easy to find.

I take my hat off to all of you with cushings horses who are boarding out. I don't know how I would manage with Tina. With her temperature fluctuations, I sometimes check on her during the night. That]s not always feasible in a boarding establishment. I might add when my old boarder has had bad nights with celutitis and other similar ailments over the years, I have made many a check on him during the night hours. He gets the same care as my own horses. Having boarded my own horses at other barns during show periods, when I decided to board at home, I wanted to give the horses what mine were missing at other establishments. Phyllis


Re: lethargic pony

Wendy Golding
 

Lavinia -



any more suggestions on how to give him the
pergolide? My vet told me to give it to him as a treat - some
treat!!



I went round and round with my Rudy for months trying all types of ways to
sneak the Pergolide into him - he got smarter and smarter and wasn't eating
all of it on a regular basis. We finally found that the best and most
effective way was to grind up the tablets (1 mg. each day - in a.m.) and mix
it with Cocosoy oil (now he gets it in his OrthoSil) AND SQUIRT IT OR
SYRINGE IT IN HIS MOUTH before he eats breakfast/dinner. We know he's
getting the whole dose and he's doing great with the Cushings by doing this.



Wendy (&Rudy #5393)


_,_._,___


Re: Input on Bridies hoof comparisons 05 to 08

shabbonawoman
 

According to Susan E. Harris in her book, "Horse Gaits, Balance and
Movement", cannons of the hind legs should be vertical and parallel,
but the stifles and toes normally point somewhat outward. This permits
the stifles to engage far forward without bumping against the belly. In
this same line, the feet should point outward at the same angle as the
stifles to avoid stress on the joints. This gives straight movement
with maximum engagement.

Cow hocks have the hocks pointed inward with cannons and toes angled
outward which gives crooked movement with rotation of hocks and causes
grinding stress to the bones of the hock.

None of this seems to have any connection with "clear the front." K.C.
LaPierre talked about the natural roll of the hoof in the heel first
landing. I can't remember if it was lateral to medial or the other way.
True a horse may stand or move incorrectly which will show up as inside
high or outside high until muscles relax on their own or through
therapy and he feels comfortable using new movement over the course of
correct trimming.

Cheryl

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Ute" <ute@...> wrote:
Most horses have a slightly toed
out conformation behind which helps them clear the front, but it also
causes the horse to step more on the inside edge of the hooves first
and then on the outside edge.


Re: Magnesium

Joan and Dazzle
 

Hi Kassy,

Have you done a hay analysis?

Joan and Dazzle

--- In EquineCushings@..., Kathleen Hardy <khardy_13@...>
wrote:

I have been told by my vet to put my 20 year old
Morgan mare on Magnesium for her severe skin
sensitivity. Can someone tell
me what the dosage should be for an approx 1000 lb horse?

Kassy Hardy


Re: need to put on weight

Joan and Dazzle
 

Hi Laura,

R/s/r beet pulp is higher in calories and can help put weight back on a
horse without the sugar and starch. Have you tried that yet?

Joan and Dazzle

--- In EquineCushings@..., "lauraandcecil" <lfreese@...>
wrote:

My mare, Bea, is starting to look "ribby."
I think she's losing weight. Can you
suggest what I should start with that is low starch/sugar?
Laura


Re: Input on Bridies hoof comparisons 05 to 08/toeing out

Joan and Dazzle
 

Sorry that I'm not a hoof guru, but she looks awfully cute in her
winter attire.

Joan and Dazzle

--- In EquineCushings@..., "jarrahbrearebreazebridie"
<jarrah@...> wrote:

.... O.K. So Bridie linage might not be so pure for a Shetland.
Skeletons in the closet me thinks!... A little bit of thoroughbred
and quarter horse in her blood lines eh! That milk man's horse was a
rare breed......and sneaky to boot passing on the 'DEFECT" for the
toeing out!
I would like to know what we may have
contributed to this specificaly, what can be done and what requires
addressing now and how?


Re: Use of Hawthorwn for Laminitic/Foundered horses

Abby Nemec
 

vashka1 wrote:

However, if I remember correctly, it should not be fed with other circulation-boosting herbs such as Hawthorn.
There is information on the J herb in the files section of this list.

Comments from Dr Kellon about using jiaogulan/panax ginseng/hawthorn together in message #54099

-Abby

--
**************************
Abby Bloxsom
www.advantedgeconsulting.com


need to put on weight

lauraandcecil <lfreese@...>
 

My mare, Bea, is starting to look "ribby." I took her off Strategy in
October when she was diagnosed with Cushings and IR. She has improved
greatly with Pergolide. I thought maybe the hay would maintain her
since she doesn't work, but I think she's losing weight. Can you
suggest what I should start with that is low starch/sugar? I live in
southern Indiana. Thanks.
Laura


Re: Input on Bridies hoof comparisons 05 to 08/toeing out

brearebreazybridie
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., 5 Pine Ranch
<fivepineranch@...> wrote:
From: aptly_asked>
Thoroughbreds are specifically bread to be "cow hocked" although
they are not necessarily "toed out". This is to allow the rear legs
to swing wide of the barrel of the body to allow for greater freedom
of motion. It's a conformational "defect".
Paul. Chiming in - ditto for Quarter Horses - betting more than
50% are slightly toed out behind.
.... O.K. So Bridie linage might not be so pure for a Shetland.
Skeletons in the closet me thinks!... A little bit of thoroughbred
and quarter horse in her blood lines eh! That milk man's horse was a
rare breed......and sneaky to boot passing on the 'DEFECT" for the
toeing out! Poor girl has been toed out for 17 years prior to founder
and rotation and never a missed step. I agree with Paul and Amberlee
on this point. To me it looked like the inside flare on her rear left
was not trimmed off enough and not to do with her way of going. Any
other comments on this point would be beneficial concerning her rear
left sole as I am open for information and heaven forbid I could be
wrong :-)as I am not Ferrier. Does it require trimming slightly or
other opinions or possibilities that can cause this and what is
required if anything? I am not concerned with her toeing out on the
front or the hind as this is not a problem for her. The feet are
balanced and even as far as I can tell, apart from this one point. I
can only compare with what was before with Bridie's feet and that was
awful. It has been a long time since I have seen normal with her. I
need some judgment, perspective on this. The heels/frog in the front
seem to be some what contracted I agree, although not to bad and from
previously her feet are a great improvement in comparison ( she
rotated in all four). I can only remember the absceses, dropt sole,
seperation and huge feet with what appeared to be very little frog
when the internal structures came apart inside the hoof and the sole
dropped with the rotation and sinking. My view is biased that's for
sure, based on this. I have lost perspective of what is perfect for
her hoofs. I would like to know what are the best options for her
trim at this time exactly. I would like to know what we may have
contributed to this specificaly, what can be done and what requires
addressing now and how? I understand the heels height can cause this
combined with trim. My Morgan was much easier to resolve with the
heel issue and contracted frogs, even though his muliple rotations
were worse and he had less sole by far. I can do more x-rays for my
Ferrier so we can work on this aspect. I would appreciate some
details on how to accomplish the lowering of the heels to open up the
frog area at the heels effectively for the future and resolve any
inperfections for Bridie feet. Bridie has not been in rotation mode
for a year, just working on fixing the damage still. I can organize a
new set of x-rays if this is required. She has a lot of sole on her
last set of x-rays as most ponies of her breed do. Bridie
has "slippers" although this is not an issue for her and my vet was
not concerned. Bridie is trimmed every three weeks now and was every
two weeks and has been for multiple years chasing the rotation and
sinking issues. I thank everyone who has contributed thus far and
waiting for further input to help Bridie. By the way she is sound and
bucking and cantering today again. It was a joy to watch Bridie, all
10hh who thinks she is 16+hh same as the rest of the girls and to
tell them to take a hike...... it is her diet food :-)
Angela
jarrahbrearebreazebridie


Re: Magnesium

Kathleen Hardy
 

I have been told by my vet to put my 20 year old
Morgan mare on Magnesium for her severe skin
sensitivity. I purchased some today. Can someone tell
me what the dosage should be for an approx 1000 lb horse?

Kassy Hardy
Springville, NY
khardy_13@...



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Re: Question on shoes under equicast?

Jax The Wonder Cat <jaxthewondercat@...>
 

Thank you Abby! Yes we made a pile of sand and put her foot down in to harden. I'm glad we won't have to mess with any other filler!! She's doing very well, better than a month now from the last abscess so it appears the lack of support was def. the problem. I am hoping with the shoes on underneath she can shed the boots in dry weather but if not, boots it will be! =) jamie coughlin


eating pergolide

laviniamfiscaletti <dnlf@...>
 

Way to go, Nancy. This is good news. When you up the pergolide, it
should be ok to just add the next 1/4 tab to either of the times you
already do. Then the final 1/4 would go into the remaining meal. Have
you tried dissolving the tab in a little water and just mixing that
with a few pellets of damp senior feed or a tablespoon of the baby
food carrots? That way he can't find the pill. The grape would also
be good if he likes them.

Please be careful with the bran mashes as they can be very high in
sugar/starch values. And no, he doesn't need anything to replace the
senior feed at this time unless he loses weight below where his body
condition score is about a 5. At that point, rinsed/soaked/rinsed
beet pulp would be a safe addition if necessary. The Balanced Timothy
cubes should help him immensely in actually keeping better weight
because they are providing calories in a manner his body can use and
have the correct minerals in them already so his needs are being met.

Don't worry about the email problem, as long as you post to the list,
everyone can answer you right on list. I'm getting your private
posts, so as long as you don't mind I'll just answer directly to the
list :)

Lavinia, Nappi and George

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