Date   

Re: Quiessence for Cushings?

tammy.canning
 

They are the Alfatec Select Cubes


--- In EquineCushings@..., "plwoodbury"
<DesertHorses@...> wrote:

--- In EquineCushings@..., "tammy.canning"
<tammy.canning@> wrote:

Sorry, my hay cubes aren't from Ontario. When the delivery guy
dropped the bags off, he had a bunch of pages with all of the
analysis already done on the hay cubes so I didn't even have to
go
searching for info!

I do have milled flax here so can give that. How much should I
be
giving for a small pony? I was giving approximately 1 cup a day

My gosh Tammy, where are you that you got cubes with an analysis
delivered? Were they
locally produced cubes? They might not be already balanced but are
low sugar/starch.

The cubes will need a little help to get the minerals balanced -
will depend on your pony's
weight and how much you feed (so let us know as soon as you get the
case history up). As
Kathleen pointed out, they need some phosphorus, copper and zinc
added.

See the "Emergency Diet" for amounts for vit E, iodized salt, etc.
in folder #1 in the files at
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files.
I would replace the blue block (salt/cobalt/iodine) with a plain
white block and add the
appropriate amount of iodized salt to his feed.

Also in the files is a folder "Compounded Drugs" (the main folder
is called "Drugs,
Pergolide, Cushings Disease Treatments")
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/Drugs%2C%
20Pergolide%2C%2
0Cushings%20Disease%20Treatments/

This explains about the shelf life of different forms of pergolide.
I can't believe we don't
have a file on dosing - how to sneak it in, I know there's lots in
the archives.

If the flax is already milled, is it stabilized (like Omega Fields
or HorseTech Nutra Flax?). If
it's not stabilized, ground or milled flax loses it's Omega-3
essential fatty acids almost
immediately - what remains is a tasty source of fat and protein but
we feed it for the
Omega-3. Fresh ground flax (either just before feeding or a week's
worth kept in the
fridge or freezer) is also good.

Patti K
Vail AZ


Re: Way high potassium in hay, need help please

 

Hi Penny ~

You did good : )
I loaded a slightly newer version of the spreadsheet in your folder (will be putting these up
generally soon) - just thinking it might show things a bit more clearly.


To bring Ca up to 2xNRC I think I should add 6 gm Ca to supplement.
Then Ratios are: Ca:Mg = 1.9, Ca:P = 1.9
That's fine. You could continue to give Lilly 3 or 4 grams mag (and keep the Ca:Mg ratio
down at 1.5:1 - especially if she's been getting some all along and is doing well with it.


Potassium is way, way high at 196 gm. Is is suggested that 22 sodium
(2gm salt) is maximum to give to compensate, formula says 64 is
needed. Will excess potassium be harmful?
Use the 2 ounces salt (22g sodium) - can go higher if warm/working. You're right that we
don't want to "overload" salt; 22g Na brings the K:Na ratio to 8.5:1 (less than 10 is OK for
maintenance). If you get into "serious" work with potassium levels like these, would want
to rethink this.


Now what? I'm currently feeding emergency diet. Looks like I should
stop giving magnesium - correct? Obviously I can countinue to give
the 2 oz of salt, but what about zinc and copper?
I would continue 3 or 4 grams of magnesium for an IR horse.
You need to bring copper up higher to balance the high manganese.You have a "negative"
manganese "recommendation" - since we can't take manganese out of the hay, we need to
increase copper to balance it. Adding 200mg of copper will bring you right around the
"3xNRC" comfort zone. Then you also need to increase zinc to maintain Cu:Zn:Mn at 1:3:3.

Is this all there is to make up Lilly's supplements.
Yes - in a flax base.

What about vitamins etc.
Continue vitamin E. Cobalt, vit A and vit D not needed.
B vitamins not really needed for young, healthy horse. Same for biotin.

she was on glucosamine/MSM/joint support type supplements and would
really benefit I think to get back on those (ie safe ones).
Would try her on "balanced" minerals for a month or so first, then add a joint supplement
if you still think she needs it.

Need to go to next step before I run out of this hay.
Good going - it's easy to get "stuck" in the Temporary Emergency Diet and never go
forward to actual balancing.

Patti K
Vail AZ


Re: Quiessence for Cushings?

 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "tammy.canning" <tammy.canning@...> wrote:

Sorry, my hay cubes aren't from Ontario. When the delivery guy
dropped the bags off, he had a bunch of pages with all of the
analysis already done on the hay cubes so I didn't even have to go
searching for info!

I do have milled flax here so can give that. How much should I be
giving for a small pony? I was giving approximately 1 cup a day

My gosh Tammy, where are you that you got cubes with an analysis delivered? Were they
locally produced cubes? They might not be already balanced but are low sugar/starch.

The cubes will need a little help to get the minerals balanced - will depend on your pony's
weight and how much you feed (so let us know as soon as you get the case history up). As
Kathleen pointed out, they need some phosphorus, copper and zinc added.

See the "Emergency Diet" for amounts for vit E, iodized salt, etc. in folder #1 in the files at
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files.
I would replace the blue block (salt/cobalt/iodine) with a plain white block and add the
appropriate amount of iodized salt to his feed.

Also in the files is a folder "Compounded Drugs" (the main folder is called "Drugs,
Pergolide, Cushings Disease Treatments")
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/Drugs%2C%20Pergolide%2C%2
0Cushings%20Disease%20Treatments/

This explains about the shelf life of different forms of pergolide. I can't believe we don't
have a file on dosing - how to sneak it in, I know there's lots in the archives.

If the flax is already milled, is it stabilized (like Omega Fields or HorseTech Nutra Flax?). If
it's not stabilized, ground or milled flax loses it's Omega-3 essential fatty acids almost
immediately - what remains is a tasty source of fat and protein but we feed it for the
Omega-3. Fresh ground flax (either just before feeding or a week's worth kept in the
fridge or freezer) is also good.

Patti K
Vail AZ


Re: Koko and my hay test

Karen <karen@...>
 

Luckily I had some other hay that I tested. I walked the field and
took six samples. It came out at 6.5%nsc. I was feeding this hay to
the normal horses because my girls didn't like it. Now I know why - it
wasn't as sweet.
Koko was on .5 mg pergolide and four days ago I started him on 1mg and
the 6.5 hay. It is almost unbievable how much better he is in just
four days. He is walking all over the place and does not lay down now
like he was before.
So hopefully I learned my lesson on testing hay and this will not
happen again.

Karen, Chantilly, Tommi and Koko---


Re: ADF was body condition

cjspackman
 

The good thing about hemicellulose is that it is a form of cellulose
it requires microbial fermentation so it is digested in the cecum and
large colon. Cellulose is a crystalline structure that resists
fermentation, and as per my post yesterday is not as available to
non-ruminants as it is to ruminants. However hemicellulose has a
random structure which is not very strong so it is fermented by
non-ruminants. The more hemicellulose a hay has the more of the
insoluble carbohydrate will be available for micorbial fermentation
and the greater the amount of volatile fatty acid produced which is
what the horse in turn uses as an energy source. The higher the ADF
the greater the chance that that ADF may have a large amount of
unavailable lignin compared to partially available cellulose. So in
my mind the larger you NDF value and the smaller your ADF value the
better quality hay for microbial fermentation. If NDF is low that to
me would suggest higher soluble fractions i.e. starch and sugar which
we don't want for the IR horse.

Clair

Okay, so what is the significance of hemicellulose? Is is a good
thing or not? The hemocellulose from my hay analysis would be 30.1%
which is higher than the average, so I'm thinking that you want that
percentage to stay low?
Leslie


Re: Quiessence for Cushings?

tammy.canning
 

Sorry, my hay cubes aren't from Ontario. When the delivery guy
dropped the bags off, he had a bunch of pages with all of the
analysis already done on the hay cubes so I didn't even have to go
searching for info!

I do have milled flax here so can give that. How much should I be
giving for a small pony? I was giving approximately 1 cup a day
previously. And same with the vitamin E. How much of that should I
be giving? I was giving him just a handful of sweet feed to mix the
pergolide in with. I'm assuming now that it's not the best thing to
be giving him.

I contacted our vet regarding the liquid pergolide as I had read on
here somewhere that the shelf-life for the liquid form is under a
month. The Health Tech. at the clinic said their liquid form doesn't
expire until May though?!? They do have capsules available so I
assume I should be getting that. So, if you all are having to
supplement with this or that and give the pergolide, what is the best
thing to "hide" all of it in and give to your horse?




--- In EquineCushings@..., "Kathleen Gustafson"
<katmando@...> wrote:


Are these the Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance cubes? If so, you
shouldn't need to add anything (including magnesium) to his diet
except vitamin E, flax (for Omega 3,6 essential fatty acids) and
iodized salt. We recommend an 1-2 oz of loose iodized salt per day.
They can't lick enough from a block. If the ODTB cubes are 100% of
his diet, you should be set, just make sure to add all of the above
and that he gets 1.5 - 2.0 of his body weight (more if he's thin,
less if he's fat) in cubes.

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)

PS - I think you're the first new member who arrived with a hay
analysis in hand. Wow! Pretty typical alfalfa mix hay - low s/s,
higher in protein, Ca:P:Mg imbalance, could use more zinc and
copper,
etc., - just a quick glance.


Re: testing, vet insisted upon fasting..or not feeding him ealy AM p

n rand <nantomluna@...>
 

Tom was used to being stalled and I am sure had hay left from evening feed to nibble on in AM before test. (No feed was removed) What was withheld was his Safe N Easy pellets that he gets before turnout. He still had also what was left from nite of his Triple Crown Safe Starch forage so unless he was in hysterics about not being fed S & E on time in AM maybe I will luck out.

I will post results.

Vet did say that Michigan State did not consider Tom IR (based on prior tests) but when I applied our formula (and posted ) to Michigan State results I was told that he was.

He also said that current thinking is that Cushings is not caused by a tumor but is a "wearing out" of the gland similar to Parkinson's disease. He said that is why pergolide, a parkinson's drug works. He seems interested inl earning more about our group and I am going to send him info re: how the group calculated IR.


---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.


Way high potassium in hay, need help please

pennybov
 

I'm frozen in analysis paralysis for weeks. I added worksheets to
files under Penny & Lilly. Equi-analytical results: ESC=3.3%,
Starch=1.1%. Can I assume that NSC is 4.4% ??? Wow that us very
low???
Per 14 lb of hay fed results are:
Ca= 26 gm (add 6 gm Ca to supplemet)
P= 17 gm
Mg= 17 gm
K= 196 gm
Na= 1 gm (add 22 gm sodium ie 2 g salt)
Fe= 732 mg
Zn= 83 mg (add 466 mg Zinc to supplement)
Cu= 32 mg (add 151 mg copper to supplement)
Mn= 681 mg
Mo= 6 mg
Lysine= 24 gm

To bring Ca up to 2xNRC I think I should add 6 gm Ca to supplement.
Then Ratios are: Ca:Mg = 1.9, Ca:P = 1.9

Potassium is way, way high at 196 gm. Is is suggested that 22 sodium
(2gm salt) is maximum to give to compensate, formula says 64 is
needed. Will excess potassium be harmful?

Now what? I'm currently feeding emergency diet. Looks like I should
stop giving magnesium - correct? Obviously I can countinue to give
the 2 oz of salt, but what about zinc and copper? Is this all there
is to make up Lilly's supplements. What about vitamins etc. Prior to
her laminitis episode in Jun-07 and Cushings/IR emergency diet ete
she was on glucosamine/MSM/joint support type supplements and would
really benefit I think to get back on those (ie safe ones). She had
a hock injury and some arthritis. Need to go to next step before I
run out of this hay.

Thanks
Penny & Lilly (my wonder horse)


Re: Quiessence for Cushings?

 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "tammy.canning"
<tammy.canning@...> wrote:

He is on hay cubes right now, no flaked hay. The cubes are
supposed to be specifically designed for Cushings/Insulin Resistant
horses so there should be no need to soak it.

Are these the Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance cubes? If so, you
shouldn't need to add anything (including magnesium) to his diet
except vitamin E, flax (for Omega 3,6 essential fatty acids) and
iodized salt. We recommend an 1-2 oz of loose iodized salt per day.
They can't lick enough from a block. If the ODTB cubes are 100% of
his diet, you should be set, just make sure to add all of the above
and that he gets 1.5 - 2.0 of his body weight (more if he's thin,
less if he's fat) in cubes.

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)

PS - I think you're the first new member who arrived with a hay
analysis in hand. Wow! Pretty typical alfalfa mix hay - low s/s,
higher in protein, Ca:P:Mg imbalance, could use more zinc and copper,
etc., - just a quick glance.


Re: Koko and my hay test

bigwhitevan2002
 

Hey karen if it makes you feel any better the swame thing happened with
my pony as soon as i put her on our tested safe hay she got warm sore
feet. so back on the sterrets she went...I am too lazy too soak..plus
she is up at Shannas so too complicated...

feeling your pain...

Julie


Re: Quiessence for Cushings?

tammy.canning
 

Hi Mandy,

Thanks for all of the advice and time. I will try and get a copy of
his test results this afternoon. I will also get Insulin/Glucose tests
done, if the vet did not do those already.

He is on hay cubes right now, no flaked hay. The cubes are supposed to
be specifically designed for Cushings/Insulin Resistant horses so there
should be no need to soak it. Here are the test results for the cubed
hay:

This is done on the sample. I also have another chart for Dry Matter
but won't post it.

ESC (Simple Sugars) 6.3% 28.5 g/lb.
Starch .2% .9 g/lb.
Non Fiber Carb. (NFC) 13.8% 82.6 g/lb.
Neutral Detergent Fiber (NDF) 54.3% 246.4 g/lb.
Acid Detergent Fiber (ADF) 37.3% 169.3 g/lb.
Estimated Lysine .53% 2.4 g/lb.
Crude Protein 10.4% 47.3 g/lb.

Calcium .99% 4.48 g/lb.
Phosphorus .18% .82 g/lb.
Magnesium .17% .76 g/lb.
Potassium 1.37% 6.22 g/lb.
Sodium .045% .204 g/lb.

Iron 186 ppm 84 mg/lb.
Zinc 22 ppm 10 mg/lb.
Copper 5 ppm 2 mg/lb.
Manganese 51 ppm 23 mg/lb.
Molybdenum .51 ppm .23 mg/lb.

That is all he is getting right now, other than having a blue salt lick
in his pen.


Soaking Fresh Cut Grass

r_goldfarb <r_goldfarb@...>
 

Hello -

I've read a lot about soaking hay to reduce the sugar, but does the
same thing work for soaking fresh cut grass?

Our horses have finally recovered from founder (it's about a year
later so they have a nicely connected hoof wall now). They only eat
bermuda hay, but I'm feeling like they are nutritionally deprived ...
they've really started eating the barn! We used to use Advanced
Biological Concepts free choice minerals but our trimmer said they
were probably eating it A LOT because of the wheat middling. She
ordered a different supplement to add to their tiny bit of beet
pulp/flax seed mash every day (we're waiting for it to arrive in the
mail). In June we'll be able to test the new crop of hay and get the
tailored supplement specific to their feed.

We're really strict about not giving them treats and letting them
graze, but every so often I cut some of the tall new grass in the
morning before the sun heats it up (but not the morning after a
freeze) and I give it to them (of course they LOVE it). If soaking it
would work, I'd be comfortable giving it more often. By the way, we
live in So. Calif.

Thanks for your feedback in advance!

Rebecca


Re: sealed/unsealed grazing muzzles reminder for newcomers

idlerranch2@...
 

Thank you for the story, it helps to know that there is light at the end of the tunnel. We have no lamanitis problems just the weight and fat pockets. I have started the diet and am still getting all of my ducks in a row.
Where are you in Washington? I am in La Center just N of Vancouver. I could use some look see help and maybe vet help.

Thanks

Dannice
S.W. Washington state
---- jvoutdoorz <jvining@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

I haven't posted in a while because Copper is doing so well. But I
just had to share this story, especially for the new comers...

Jodie and Copper
in Western WA experiencing an early taste of spring:)


Re: ACTH testing

idlerranch2@...
 

Thank you for the info. I called the vets office back and told the receptionist what I wanted. She will talk to Meg and see if she will do it and if not I do have another vet I have dealt with that I can call. If I need the info on Cornell and where to send it is there a folder I can look in? I tried the web site and came up with nothing.

Dannice



I just called my vets office to set up the testing for my pony and they
want to do 2 draws 19hrs apart. Is this
See the New Member Primer (in Folder #1) and the "Blood Testing" folder in the files at http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files

Patti K
Vail AZ


Re: ADF was body condition

bchorse1 <cobble@...>
 

Thanks Clair!
Okay, so what is the significance of hemicellulose? Is is a good
thing or not? The hemocellulose from my hay analysis would be 30.1%
which is higher than the average, so I'm thinking that you want that
percentage to stay low?
Leslie
--- In EquineCushings@..., "cjspackman" <c.thunes@...>
wrote:

ADF stands for acid detergent fiber and is the name of a lab
analysis
which recovers low nitrogen residue that contains cellulose and
lignin. Hemicelluloses and cell wall proteins are solubilized by
the
strong acid solution. The solution contains a large amount of
strong
acid and samples have to rinsed after analysis until the wash water
runs neutral.

NDF stands for neutral detergent fiber. What is left in the residue
of a sample after this proces is cellulose, hemicellulose and
lignin.
You loose starches, sugars and pectin. The analysis process
literally washes the samples of ground hay in a neutral detergent
solution to which is added sodium sulphite and heat stable amylase
(this is the AOAC approved method). Hintz found that the sodium
sulphite is only really necessary when analyzing heat treated or
cooked feeds. The amylase insures that any starches are removed.
The
method using amylase is technically referred to the aNDF technique.

So if you send a sample away for analysis both NDF and ADF will
likely
be run. You weigh some of the sample in at least duplicates into
little foil dishes and put them in the oven for 24 hours and then
place them in dedicators to cool. Then they are re-weighed and the
difference in start and finish weight is the amount of dry matter in
the sample. A new sample is then weighed out into beakers for NDF
analysis again at the end these samples are placed in the oven dried
and the difference in weight from start to finish is an estimate of
starch, and sugar content. Next a sample is weighed out for ADF
anaylsis again it is dried at the end and re-weighed and the
difference in the end weight after ADF and NDF tells you how much
hemicellulose is in the sample. The weight remaining after the ADF
tells you how much cellulose and lignin there is. To know how much
lignin there is you have to do an acid detergent lignin which is
given
at least in the equi-analytical feed library. However, while
cellulose can be fermented by the microbes this is not to such an
extent in horses as in ruminants. For example according to
estimates
made by Van Soest non-ruminants can digest 20-30% of the cellulose
in
alfalfa compared to 40-60% in ruminants. He also estimates that
temperate grass cellulose is only 0-20% digested by non-ruminants
compared to 48-90% in ruminants so for out purposes it is pretty
safe
to assume that most of the ADF fraction will not be digested. My
sense is those lignin values in the library may be from the analysis
they do for cattle hay where it does matter more. If you correct
all
these results for the original dry matter you took then you have
your
proportions of NDF and ADF on a dry matter basis if not it is as
fed.

So when you look at the lab analysis of a hay sample if you subtract
the amount of NDF from the amount ADF you know the % hemicellulose.
All this stuff is why your NDF% is always higher than your ADF% (ADF
is contained in the NDF). Beet pulp is high in pectin which is
typically washed out of the sample during the NDF process so NDF
values for high pectin feeds can be lower than expected even though
pectin is part of the cell wall and acts as the walls cement. If
you
look at the equi-analytical average anaylsis values for beet pulp
the
NDF is 41.9% and ADF is 25.8% so there is 16.1% hemicellulose.
Compared to grass hay with NDF 63.5% and ADF 39% so 24.5%
hemicellulose. For alfalfa its 8.5% hemicellulose.

Anyway this is bringing back bad memories of weekends spent in the
lab
analyzing seemingly endless fiber samples for my graduate research
plus I've gone on far long enough.

Clair


Attention Dr Kellon

Cathy Linson <cmlinson@...>
 

Dr Kellon



I sent pics of Toby's feet last Thursday and 2 e-mails this week all with no
response. I am wondering if they ended up in your spam folder/



Cathy Linson


Re: Quiessence for Cushings?

Mandy Woods
 

Hi Tammy,
Welcome to the group. The files that were sent to you when you joined, the "Start Here" file is what you need to read. That will get you started in rehabbing your boy. The list philosophy is DDT/E. Thats Diagnosis by bloodwork, Diet being low sugar/starch/fat, Trim a balanced foot with heels lowered and toes backed and Exercise if the horse is able.

What test did you have done to confirm Cushings late last summer? Could you post all your bloodwork, units and lab normals on the new history file that is set up?
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/9%20Case%20Histories/
This will help us help you faster. Save it back to the file and you'll be able to update it. You might want to have your vet pull blood for an insulin/glucose so we can see how severe his IR is or isn't.

Diet is very critical for your pony. Besides being Cushings, he's Insulin Resistant. Cushings is treated with medication (pergolide) and IR is treated by Diet. Many symptoms overlap and confuse owners and veternarians. What you need to do right now is reduce the sugar in his feed. Soak his hay until you get an analysis of the s/s in it. Get a bag of plain shredded beet pulp and Rinse/soak/rinse it to remove any extra sugar/iron. That will be your carrier for your minerals on the Temporary Diet. Your goal to maintain him is to feed *safe* food. That could be Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance cubes, or Sterretts Pellets, Triple Crown Safe Starch Forage, Blue Seal Carb Guard or Poulin Carb Safe can be used. Depending on where you live can you find these feeds. The first two are complete safe meals. The others are safe carriers. Today, stop letting him graze, no red mineral blocks, no treats, apples carrots etc. You can get a muzzle for him, tape the hole closed on the bottom so he can't get any 'dead grass' because it isn't dead! The sugar is high this time of year in the roots and ponies know it!

Your pony needs hay. Forage is the most important thing for him to eat. But you need to find SAFE hay. Alfalfa is out. Find a grass hay, Timothy or Orchard grass, soak it for one hour and drain and serve. We aim for ESC+Starch to be 10% or less. To have your hay tested, send a cored sample to Dairy One. We can help you with the details.

His pegolide should be powdered/capsules. IF its liquid, the shelf life is very short...14 - 30 days. Ask your vet to write you a prescription for it. We have several compounding pharmacies in the Database that make, sell very reasonably priced pergolide.

Quiessence is good stuff but its expensive. You can do just as well to get a bag of Magnesium Oxide at a feed store for $15. It'll last you two lifetimes! Give some to your neighbors! To get your guy on the Emergency Diet, You need Vitamin E, Magox, and iodized table salt. Walmart has most of the stuff we use! Your long range goals are to have your hay analyzed and minerals balanced to it. Yes, it truly makes a difference. And, there's no reason why in one year you can't use this pony again. But you must do the DDT/E's together.

His trim should be with heels lowered and his toes backed. He may be able to go barefoot or with boots/pads. He'll need frequent trims. Exercise is hand walking in straight lines, no tight turns. Keep a journal/photos so you can track his progress.

We give you alot of stuff to read and a new way of managing equines. We expect you to have questions! Ask away! And read the files. The anwers are in the files. We've been down this road before you and we can help.
Mandy and Asher in VA


sealed/unsealed grazing muzzles reminder for newcomers

jvoutdoorz <jvining@...>
 

Hi everyone,

I haven't posted in a while because Copper is doing so well. But I
just had to share this story, especially for the new comers...

For those who don't know Copper, a quick update. Bought Copper in
early Sept of 2007. Being a new horse owner with less than two years
experience, I wasn't aware of IR, much less the signs. He was
overweight with cresty neck and fat pockets but it was blamed on being
a pasture pet for almost 2 years. We bought him and he foundered just
over two weeks later when we put him back to work (gradually of
course, but that didn't matter). Thankfully, I love learning and went
to find out everything about founder, which lead me here within a
week. I immediately retested insulin and glucose (vet had only done
insulin) and found Copper to be at a 2.9 ratio. We put into practice
all the suggestions here and never looked back. His 6 and 7 degree
rotations are now corrected (X-rays in early Jan), he has lost 100
pounds and most of his cresty neck. He has not had a lame day since 5
days post founder (great ferrier, too). He was running, bucking and
doing flying lead changes (yes, I watch him to that regularly) in the
field since before Christmas. After his x-rays we put him back to
work. First on the ground with suppling exercises and than gradually
under saddle. He is at a walk only but up to over an hour now.

Four days ago I started turning him out (muzzled of course) with my
mare on the back pasture that had been resting all winter. The grass
is few inches, up to six in some areas. They are only out for less
than an hour before lunch. Yesterday I noticed an increase in the size
and hardness of his crest. Thankfully, no foot soreness, still
running and bucking:) I guess the extra length enabled him to get more
through the little hole in the muzzle. Today he will have a sealed
muzzle to accompany Emmy out back.

I just wanted to share 1) That all the information here is wonderful
and works (Much thanks to everyone), 2)muzzles matter (Linda, I was
right before you and Peanut on this site) and 3) Do watch any little
changes you make in the tightness of the diet, it does matter:)

Thanks again to all the wonderful people on this site. I'm sure I
would still be struggling without you, my vet is now more educated and
no one can believe how fast Copper has turned around and how wonderful
he looks now.

Jodie and Copper
in Western WA experiencing an early taste of spring:)


Re: measuring spoons for minerals- Cool spoon!

Heather
 


I cannot find a 1/3 tsp anywhere. Any ideas?

Thanks, Karen, Chantilly, Tommi and Koko
Hi Karen~
I found a really cool little measuring device in the spice aisle at
Wal Mart. It's called an Evrimeaure. I mix minerals myself, and the
weight per feeding comes out between a heaping teaspoon, but less
than a tablespoon. With this evrimeasure, I can make it exactly what
it needs to be by moving the bottom divider. Then I drew a line in
permanent marker in case it moved. You could set it wherever you
want it, less than 1/2 tspn, and more than 1/4 tspn.
In the online descriptions, it says 1/2 tspn, but you can set it
smaller than that. I think it was $3-$4, and I found it hanging in
those random displays that are meant to catch your eye. Well
Congrats Wally World, it worked! Or you could do a search and order
it.
It would also work well for any of you in boarding situations, and
make it easier for whomever is feeding for you. That way you know
your horse is getting exactly what he/she needs, no more and no less.

Heather and Apache
NM


Quiessence for Cushings?

tammy.canning
 

I am brand new to the board and brand new to Cushings. My late teens
Welsh Pony was tested and confirmed with Cushings late in the summer
of 2007. He's had the classic cresty neck for many years. He
normally gets a very fuzzy coat for winter but has always shed out
nicely come spring. Last summer, he had what I would consider
a "fall" coat with some miniscule length to the hair, more than he
normally would on an average summer day.

He has exceptional feet, always been on an alfalfa/timothy mix hay
(maybe 30% alfalfa) and out on a short, maintained grass pasture
during the year and we've never had any problems, until this winter.

I did not start him on the Pergolide in the fall, mostly because I
was in denial I think, and was planning on starting him on it this
spring. This winter, he seemed to have aged a thousand years, grew a
pot belly, despite constant dieting, we just can't seem to get the
weight off, shaggy coat, and on and on.

He was on the same hay as always and then ended up foundering here
about 10 days ago. X-rays confirm rotation, which is likely old and
present before we owned him, according to the vet as there has been
absolutely NO sign of foundering since owning him. Vet thinks the
current hay, which did have one batch of more alfalfa in it, caused a
flare up but no new rotation. I know, hard to know without previous
x-rays.

So, x-rays are not the end of the world, but enough so that he will
likely be getting heart bar shoes this morning. For the last two
weeks, once we realized he may possibly be foundering, we switched
him to a grass/shredded beetpulp cube designed for Cushings and
Insulin Resistant horses. No more hay. Apparently, the cubes have
2% alfalfa in them (not enough to really register) and 9.25%
protein. I also started him on the Pergolide, as I should have last
fall :( This pony was already retired but doing some light riding.
Vet says riding days are now over so he will really not be getting a
ton of exercise from now on.

Will be picking him up today and speaking to the vet further on what
happens next. I assume he will not be able to go out in the pasture
anymore? Even if the grass has been well maintained and there is
really nothing there? We do have a good pen he can live in, if that
is the case, with no grass.

So, long story short, I read a little article on Quiessence and that
it may help with Cushings. I can currently get it through mail at
$35 a bag and $11 shipping on the first bag and $3 shipping on each
additional bag. Was told one bag would last approximately one month
but, I'm assuming less with a small pony. Just wanted to find out if
it "truly" makes a difference for horses with Cushings?

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