Cindy.... I suggest you perform a virus scan ASAP.
Hopefully, Paul our computer guru will pipe in soon.
Claire from AZ
EC List Monitor/Moderator

I have also noticed that some of the files seem to contain malicious
scripts. I have had this warning a few times pop up now while
reseraching files here.

Ute

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Mandy Woods"
<bittersweetfarm@...> wrote:

Karen,
Sheath swelling can be a symptom of excess sugar in the horses'

system.

I believe this as well. My gelding had this at one time on his old
higher sugar diet but has not since. And 3 of the horses he is boarded
with have that issue - they get straight alfalfa AND grain and yes they
are all overweight.

Ute

I am so sorry. I just realized that this was very confusing with the "as sampled" and "dry
matter" numbers appearing. I have deleted the "dry matter" numbers.

Two samples taken: one from the RIGHT side of the loft, one from the LEFT side.
Neither of them look encouraging. :-(

Components As Sampled
R SIDE

% Moisture 8.9
% Dry Matter 91.1
% Protein 5.9
RUP % Prot 35
SOL % Prot 32
NEL Level 1 .44
NEL 1X .48
% ADF 36.1
% NDF 60.2
% TDN 53 58
% Calcium .39
% Phosphorus .16
% Potassium 1.51
% Sulfur .11
% Magnesium .11
% Fat 1.9
% Ash 5.64
Lignin % NDF 7.4
% Lignin 4.5
ADFIP % CP 9
NDFIP % CP 32
% ADICP .5
% NDICP 1.9
% NFC Level 1 19.4
% NSC Starch .2 .2
% NSC WSC (Water Sol. Carbs.) 15.0
% NSC ESC (Simple Sugars) 9.9
% NSC 15.2 16.6
NDF Digestibility 30hr, % of NDF 45
% Chloride Ion .62
Kd, %/hr 3.18
Relative Feed Value (RFV) 82
Horse DE, Mcal/Lb .85

Run: 2/19/2008 8:59:08AM Page 1 of 1
Green Mountain Feed Testing Laboratory
24 Railroad Square
Newport, VT 05855
Affiliated with Dairy One Forage Laboratory
Sample: Number: 0802019022


L SIDE


Sample Description:
% Moisture 8.2
% Dry Matter 91.8
% Protein 6.2
RUP % Prot 35
SOL % Prot 36
NEL Level 1 .39
NEL 1X .43
% ADF 38.5
% NDF 64.2
% TDN 51
% Calcium .33
% Phosphorus .15
% Potassium 1.30
% Sulfur .09
% Magnesium .15
% Fat 1.6
% Ash 5.01
Lignin % NDF 8.5
% Lignin 5.4 5.9
ADFIP % CP 10
NDFIP % CP 30
% ADICP .6
% NDICP 1.9
% NFC Level 1 16.7
% NSC Starch .2 .2
% NSC WSC (Water Sol. Carbs.) 13.2
% NSC ESC (Simple Sugars) 10.3
% NSC 13.4
NDF Digestibility 30hr, % of NDF 45
% Chloride Ion .42
Kd, %/hr 3.26
Relative Feed Value (RFV) 75
Horse DE, Mcal/Lb .82

Run: 2/19/2008 8:59:08AM Page 1 of 1




http://www.sportshorses.com/cases/rollinslinda.Peanut.htm

Tom developed laminitis last fall. (turned out at grass without his muzzle when I was on vacation) Tho I increased his pergolide, added ginseng per Dr.Kellon, and took him off grass, he was still in awful pain in December. He was still eating a flake or two of alfalfa hay with his grass hay because the stable owner refused to believe that alfalfa had anything to do with his soreness and certainly not his sheath swelling.

Then I moved him to a to a lay-up (temporary) facility. He receives the same diet (Safe N Easy and TC Low Starch forage) except the alfalfa, plus the lay up added ground flax, cinnamon, buckeye harvest salt. They were religious about putting his soft-ride boots on for the first two weeks, and he "walked" the paddock paradise 8-9 hours per day with other horses.

The changes have been spectacular. His sheath is no longer swollen, he is no longer standing "camped out", and except for minor soreness caused by his arthritic hocks he is moving better than he has for many years.

If I ever was doubtful about the role of diet with Tom's IR and Cushings, I certainly am not now. Plus, wearing the boots 24/7 for almost three weeks and exercise, tho only at a walk, he moved almost all day rather than standing at a hay feeder.

I have purchased 40 bales of grass hay from the faciity and am taking them to Tom's new home (boarding with a friend at a private home) I plan to get the hay analysed and balance his diet, now that I will control hay. I also will try to make a mini paddock paradise so he MOVES during the day.

Anyway, the point is there IS light at the end of the tunnel. In November I was told by the prior stable owner to accept it that Tom was old and crippled and that trying to "fix" him was chasing rainbows. Glad I chased those rainbows. (With the help of Dr.K. and this group!)

Nan
Thomas
WI


---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

Jean,
Have you and Niki entered these stores that carry ODTB cubes in the Beet Pulp file? Or better yet, let Susie Gordon know since she's the keeper of that file. It sure is nice for everyone to contribute this data!
Thanks!
Mandy

I need to buy some clippers of my own this season. Does anyone have a
suggestion for modestly priced clippers that can hold up to two or
three body clips a year? I have borrowed Oster A5's and really like
them, but probably need to hunt for something a little less expensive.
How about rechargeable--are there any out there that can handle body
clipping?
Has anyone had experiences with buying off E-bay?
I also have an older Sunbeam body clipper (the big, two handed one)
that needs be repaired. Is there a place to send them for rebuilding?
Many thanks,
Sandy and Typhoon (the little old man in a fur suit)

Any previous testing for Cushings? Might not hurt to test again once his feet are a bit more stable.

I'll go look at photos...

Amberlee
www.fivepineranch.com
Please Visit Our Site!

I'll just give you my own experience with my IR mare.
When I cold-turkeyed her off the Bute, she went from
bad to worse. After a couple of days, I gave her 2
grams of Bute, then tapered her off -- 1 1/2 grams,
then 1 gram -- over the next couple of days. She is
now totally off of it, has been for some time, and is
on the Phyto-Quench. She's not out of the woods yet,
still stiff (need spring and some warm weather!), but
she's holding her own. Good luck. I know how
disheartening this can be. I've been there and am
sometimes still there -- Karen & Glory in Illinois
--- annianda@... wrote:

I should have weaned her off. Know that now. The
first and second day there
wasn't much difference so I decided to quit it cold
turkey as we're thinking
her issue's are with circulation to the feet and the
Bute tends to restrict
that. Yesterday she was worse and she wasn't any
better today so I went out
and gave 2 grams.

I have Phyto-Quench coming on Thursday. If I give
her 2 more grams tomorrow
and then start the Phyto-Quench on Thursday, would I
be able to drop the Bute?
Not sure how I should proceed at this point.

Lori & Oficiala

Need a web site?

Long Ranch Web Site Design
http://www.longranchwebsitedesign.com





**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch
video on AOL Living.

(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/

2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]

Anyone else in Maryland-- The Mill in Bel Air and Blackhorse can get it. I think I pay about $18.00 for a 50# bag. No minumum amout. If you call the Blackhorse store, talk to a guy named Smoke. He'll know exactly what you are talking about.
Jean and Catchme in Bel Air, MD

FiFi seems better after her 2 grams of Bute this morning.

I got the impression that Phyto-Quench was a powder. Am I right? If so,
could I just mix it into a paste and syringe it as I'm not giving her anything
but hay at the moment.

Are there any ill affects with using Bute along with Phyto-Quench? I will be
weaning her off the Bute, but wanted to make sure she could take it along
with the Phyto-Quench while I was weaning.

Lori & Oficiala
Need a web site?

Long Ranch Web Site Design
http://www.longranchwebsitedesign.com





**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

I just wanted to say here that Eleanor's recommendation to me to
lengthen the amount of time between doses of bute,as opposed to
reducing the actual dose,was a real eye-opener to me.Drummer at one
point was on SIX mgs of the stuff.Horrible ,I know,but it was a scary
time.
Using her advice I increased the length of time by a few hours at first
(scared stiff),and every day extended the time between doses by several
more hours.At some point I also began reducing the amount of the dose.
It worked wonderfully for him and I was so happy to get him off that
stuff.

Lorna
Kingston

Hi Mandy,
The owner had cleaned him in August and again once we noticed the
swelling. When he came here in Nov. I noticed he was a little puffy in
his sheath but just thought it was his make up. The vet was out last
night and sedated him to get him to drop and cleaned him again and did
not find anything like a huge bean or him being dirty. The owner had
done a pretty good job of cleaning even though he would not drop with
out the sedatives the vet gave him. He doesn't have a crest just a
little fat deposit at the shoulder and the tail head and above his eyes
are filled in. He was on some grass before arriving here but now he is
basically on the Cushings diet recommended by Dr. Kellon with a private
consultation (not specific to this horse) as all my horses here are and
at the time very little grass other than hand grazing by the owner. He
has lost weight since he arrived in Nov. and the fat deposits have
lessened so it is a curiosity of what is still going on with him. The
vet suggested a lymphatic issue causing the swelling like in edema so I
was curious to know if those of you with IR horses with this symptom
had noticed that it disappears with exercise. I know that exercise is
important with an IR horse so thought this might go along with that or
is it indeed a lymphatic issue. I still suspect IR but need more
info. Folks think I go a bit over board with these diet issues, etc.
so it would be nice to find some info from you guys to back me up and
if that's not the case at least to clarify for me.

Thanks!

Karen


--- In EquineCushings@..., "Mandy Woods"
<bittersweetfarm@...> wrote:

Karen,
Sheath swelling can be a symptom of excess sugar in the horses'

system.

Try changing his feed or soak some of his hay to see if he responds.

How is

his crest? Have you cleaned him lately ie: checked for a bean?
Mandy and Asher in VA

Do NOT open these emails. For details, go here:

http://www.snopes.com/computer/virus/postcard.asp

Unfortunately, these are a real threat and we are constantly warned at
work not to open these. A more "official" notice may appear, but I
wanted to get a warning in quickly.

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)

which is a bit sad that I didn't have the confidence to discuss-
because I didn't have the knowledge to know what to say(not usually
a problem with me)

You WILL have...

I am getting slightly frustrated at the resistance I am getting
regarding meds/feed/minerals/ etc-

"Slightly frustrated" could be just the beginning of the journey for
you,Pauline,as it has been for many of us.As a Canadian,it has been
one frustration after another,finding products,learning the right
questions to ask,learning which answers are gobbledygook and which
mean something,learning how to get products I finally DO find across
the border from the US,learning to ignore the ,"Are you from MARS?"
look,which is somewhat similar to the ,"Here comes the village
idiot." look.

but I will perservere

YES!!!That's the biggest step of the journey.

- even if I have to import everything.(sorry-I needed to vent )

Get to know the Customs codes,and which ones should be used by the
company you buy from.Can save you money.I ordered a $300.00
supplement from the US last month,plus a $20.00 dental tool.The
packer used the 'veterinary instrument'(something like that)code
instead of the 'equine supplement' code.I got to pay $47.00 extra for
that coding.

It's all part of life's rich pattern,as someone famous once said.

Lorna
Kingston,Ontario

I got a private mail with a "virtual flower" from that group, asked if
I wanted to send one back. I did. Looks like in the process it took my
entire address book!

The group seems to be legitimate - albeit a little shady with the
methods. Sorry about that.

Eleanor

Stacy,
We've been told BP/flax helps bind sand and remove it. You can always do a 'test'.....put a couple of horse apples in a baggie, fill with water and let the sand silt to the bottom. Pour off the water and check for sand in the corner of the bag.
Mandy and Asher in VA

Karen,
Sheath swelling can be a symptom of excess sugar in the horses' system. Try changing his feed or soak some of his hay to see if he responds. How is his crest? Have you cleaned him lately ie: checked for a bean?
Mandy and Asher in VA

I should have weaned her off. Know that now. The first and second day there
wasn't much difference so I decided to quit it cold turkey as we're thinking
her issue's are with circulation to the feet and the Bute tends to restrict
that. Yesterday she was worse and she wasn't any better today so I went out
and gave 2 grams.

I have Phyto-Quench coming on Thursday. If I give her 2 more grams tomorrow
and then start the Phyto-Quench on Thursday, would I be able to drop the Bute?
Not sure how I should proceed at this point.

Lori & Oficiala

Need a web site?

Long Ranch Web Site Design
http://www.longranchwebsitedesign.com





**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

Hi Jamie,

FiFi had been on Bute for 3 weeks -- starting out with 4gms for 5 days and
then 2 gms for the rest. Dr. Kellon did recommend to try weaning, but I didn't
notice much difference after being off it the first two. Day 3 she was worse.
I think today, if she's as bad, I may give her a couple of grams just to get
her through until the Phyto-Quench arrives on Thursday.

Lori & Oficiala

Need a web site?

Long Ranch Web Site Design
http://www.longranchwebsitedesign.com

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Pauline" <takarri@...> wrote:

Hi All
I checked with the compounding pharmacist before I put a script in

for pergolide capsules.I got a different one than I spoke to last
time & she gave me the option of permax tablets 500mcg(?) at $145
(AUS).Jack needs 1mg.
...How many pills for the $?
Permax is a brand name product, so costs more than Pergolide
compounded and used for humans. The last quote was $195 for 100 X 1mg
that you got Pauline for the caps right?
Have you tried this? If not, give it a go.E- mail
to:
aupharmacy@pharmacydirect.
Fax
1300 656 329Australia wide(02) 9648 999Mail Address
Pharmacy Direct
Reply Paid 69380
SILVERWATER NSW 2128
Phone
1300 656 245
Australia Wide
(02) 9648 8888 or check the file under Australia and seach the web
for prices, maybe an Aussie can jump in with prices and a pharmacy.

Angela
jarrahbrearebreazebridie