Hello all, this will probably be the last note on Bertha but I will be
watching the site for information.

Bertha does not have Cushings, this from the Vet, YIPEE!!!! She is healthy
and shedding the curly coat for a thick beautiful winter coat. She is heavy
and healthy and we are looking forward to more years with her. Apparently
the coat for some reason did not shed well last year and that could be due
to nutrition and poor care. With out temperature already growing she has
started to shed her winter coat and is running and playing in the fields
with our other horses.
I wanted to thank everyone for your support and advice, have a great week
all.

Anne Clarkson

--- In EquineCushings@..., "machotti1" <machotti1@...>
wrote:

Please review the post on Low Starch Plus Pellet 14%, with no

Grains or

molasses added, produced at the Hillsboro Feed Mill in Oregon. It

is

the latest in pellet form for IR,Cushings,PSSM, EPSM,Cronic

Laminitis,

and Chronic Tying up. It's first week out in the market. I have

been

begging them to do this for over a year. Wanted to have your

feedback

on their product. Included in the post is the sheet breakdown of

the

product ingredients.
Would be happy to hear opinions on how this feed measures up to

other

feeds posted in the files.
The Hillsboro Mill,"Low Starch Plus Pellet", feed is not balanced

to

the hay (per Dr Kellon's product), and hay cubes could be

purchased

seperately. Directions recommend the feed can be fed with either
pasture, hay and water. In contrast Mid Vally Milling feed Low

NSC,

their pelletet hay and mineral bags are balanced to their hay

pellets,

by DR Kellon. That mill is located in Washington and they do sell

their

product to an Oregon feed storea 4 1/2 hour drive.
I have tried to give Hillsboro Mill the information regarding this
system developed by Dr Kellon, but to no avail, they came up with

their

own concept. This makes sence for them as well as other horse

owners

with similiar health issues.
Hay and pasture feeding is a whole different ball game. Soaking

mine

at this time, with no pasture.
Just a small note: Starting out on this new feed from Hillsboro

Feed

Co. at less than 1/3 added into regular feed my horse colicked. So

will

reintroduce in a few days.
Thanks, Chotti

To find this file: Please look under the file uploaded date 02-18-
08,Low Starch Feed, Review New low starch plus pellet. Machotti1

Oh gee......I e-mailed my barn manager as she is "in charge" of my Pergolide caretaking and administration. Since I was just billed for a new supply of Pergolide , I wanted to check on how much we received and relay the message about the 14 day shelf life.
She responded that she keeps it in her fridge and that I should call the University of Florida Pharmacy for shelf life as she had not heard the 14 day rule and that we purchase it from them.
So I am in a quandry. I am not doubting your knowledge and experience. I wouldn't be part of this web-ring if I didn't think your imput was extremely valuable, but I am concerned that U of F is giving me and maybe others the wrong info.
I printed the article which I am taking to my barn manager and also forwarding to my vet.
Trust that I am not doubting your info and experiences, I was just trying to share some info that I had recv'd from what I thought was a reliable source.
Alice Crum




"Claire C. Cox-Wilson" <shotgun.ranch@...> wrote:
--- In EquineCushings@..., lindarollins38@... wrote:

Alice,
Trust that this group (which has been around for some time now) has

done its due diligence on all forms of pergolide, and I would beg to
differ that the pharmacy's statement is not true........

Ditto on what Linda says.....see FILES section on
"Drugs, Pergolide....."
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oMe5R_3199AUnVrje7I4IdL3t47XSYwxVUMStfY6yVPHWdik1A9zDnobgjx_zsGQSjU0XDeNJjcIH_LfWfk/Drugs%2C%20Pergolide%2C%20Cushings%20Disease%20Treatments/Compounded%20Drugs/Pergolide%20Forms%20and%20Stability.pdf
Hopefully link will work.
Claire from AZ






---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

Please review the post on Low Starch Plus Pellet 14%, with no Grains or
molasses added, produced at the Hillsboro Feed Mill in Oregon. It is
the latest in pellet form for IR,Cushings,PSSM, EPSM,Cronic Laminitis,
and Chronic Tying up. It's first week out in the market. I have been
begging them to do this for over a year. Wanted to have your feedback
on their product. Included in the post is the sheet breakdown of the
product ingredients.
Would be happy to hear opinions on how this feed measures up to other
feeds posted in the files.
The Hillsboro Mill,"Low Starch Plus Pellet", feed is not balanced to
the hay (per Dr Kellon's product), and hay cubes could be purchased
seperately. Directions recommend the feed can be fed with either
pasture, hay and water. In contrast Mid Vally Milling feed Low NSC,
their pelletet hay and mineral bags are balanced to their hay pellets,
by DR Kellon. That mill is located in Washington and they do sell their
product to an Oregon feed storea 4 1/2 hour drive.
I have tried to give Hillsboro Mill the information regarding this
system developed by Dr Kellon, but to no avail, they came up with their
own concept. This makes sence for them as well as other horse owners
with similiar health issues.
Hay and pasture feeding is a whole different ball game. Soaking mine
at this time, with no pasture.
Just a small note: Starting out on this new feed from Hillsboro Feed
Co. at less than 1/3 added into regular feed my horse colicked. So will
reintroduce in a few days.
Thanks, Chotti

protein 8.4
calcium .46
phos .18
potassium 1.69
sulfur .14
magnesium .11
fat 2.1
ash 5.87
%NSC starch .9
%ESC 11.5
%NSC 14.1
I am currently feeding him a 1/2 pound Poulin carb guard 2 x daily with
Vit E & cosequin and 15 lbs hay daily. He just started back to work,
boarded for the winter, soaking hay is not an option. Thanks for you
help. Poulin recommended Poulin MVP & hay only and as his work
increased adding more carb guard?

--- In EquineCushings@..., lindarollins38@... wrote:

Alice,
Trust that this group (which has been around for some time now) has

done its due diligence on all forms of pergolide, and I would beg to
differ that the pharmacy's statement is not true........

Ditto on what Linda says.....see FILES section on
"Drugs, Pergolide....."
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oMe5R_3199AUnVrje7I4IdL3t47XSYwxVUMStfY6yVPHWdik1A9zDnobgjx_zsGQSjU0XDeNJjcIH_LfWfk/Drugs%2C%20Pergolide%2C%20Cushings%20Disease%20Treatments/Compounded%20Drugs/Pergolide%20Forms%20and%20Stability.pdf
Hopefully link will work.
Claire from AZ

Alice,
Trust that this group (which has been around for some time now) has done its due diligence on all forms of pergolide, and I would beg to differ that the pharmacy's statement is not true. The pergolide experts here have found it to be 14 days....Ian, could you chime in on this please?
Linda in MA, Peanut in CT



I am a member of Rural Area Veterinary Services. See what we do!
www.ruralareavet.org

http://www.sportshorses.com/cases/rollinslinda.Peanut.htm

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the EquineCushings
group.

File : /Low Starch Feed.jpg
Uploaded by : machotti1 <machotti1@...>
Description : Review new Low starch plus pellet

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/Low%20Starch%20Feed.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

machotti1 <machotti1@...>

Oh, Linda, so sorry about Lucy! It could have been anything. There's really no way of knowing.

She lived a good long life at 27. Now she's off to greener pastures.

Comforting Nuzzles,
Alf, Connie, Dare, and Saffron
(Cindy's "kids")

Hi Amberlee,

Yes, she's in the Epic EZ-Boots with the thick padding inserted. She seems
to find relief in those although I've had to resort to putting a strip of duct
tape around the velcro fasteners on the gators as the first pair she ripped
off. I think she was chewing on them, but not sure. She tried chewing on the
shipping boots, but a few squirts of Farnham No Chew seemed to nip that in the
bud.

Her trim was near perfect except one foot needed a little more tweaking. My
farrier had her realigned nicely and she's been sound up until this last
relapse. Not sure what the bones look like now. I have an appointment on the 25th
for X-rays to see where we're at. I'm wondering, however, if I should put
that off until she's not as sore. I'm assuming if she's still experiencing pain,
there's still a chance for more rotation. Am I right?

Lori & Oficiala

Need a web site?

Long Ranch Web Site Design
http://www.longranchwebsitedesign.com





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Linda wrote:

Lucy trotted off to greener pastures between 2:30-4:30am Sunday morning. She would have been 27 on March 18. She was a Morgan. QUESTION: Would what I've described above be related to Cushings?

Linda - first off, my deepest condolences - She was about the same age as Goldie when we lost her.

With Goldie, she was down in the morning at breakfast time and couldn't get up. We euthanized her as her spark was gone, and she had given up. Our vet suggested that it could have been a stroke and Dr Kellon suggested that it could also have been an aortic rupture, amongst other things (Donna had provided a fairly detailed symptom list for that determination). Either way, it wasn't EC that directly contributed to her end. With Goldie it was sudden, one day she was fine, and then she wasn't.

So while sometimes we would like the answers as to what these things /are/. We only know that it wasn't directly the result of a cushings complication (which was what we were thinking that it would have been).

I would say that what you were dealing with was neurological.

Once more, my condolances.

Paul (without cushing pony 1 year, 2 months, 10 days - and missing her)

Just called the pharmacy @ the University of Florida where I buy my liquid Pergolide since I was concerned about shelf life. They indicated that if kept in the refrigerator the shelf life is 60 days. Just thought that you all would want to know.

Alice Crum


---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Larson wrote:

At the risk of getting dinged -

Carol and Blue in Maine


At 11:04 AM 2/18/2008, you wrote:

i am now looking for a mega size plastic bubble to put around this
horse. anyone got one?

First and foremost, this group was founded to *support* the horseman
dealing with a horse with Equine Cushings and it's associated
conditions. We help with science, and provide emotional support. We
will provide encouragement when you're down, we'll give you more advice
than you can handle, and we'll give you a shoulder to cry on if you need it.

We're here to help. That is what we do.

Paul
Monday Monitor / Moderator
EC Cushings.

How old is Chief?

chief is 17, will be 18 in may.

I am not concerned about fence boards & branches being a huge

source of sugar/starch for your horse to cause laminitis. I think
you are still dealing with the December laminitis, lack of movement,
possibly incorrect trim for mechanical alignment.

absolutely, he is still 100% recovering from dec AND the past 2 YEARS
AND LONGER.

Soaking hay does not reduce the fibre. Adding more fibre should

not cause gas colic unless the change it diet was too fast.

soaking hay = hard poop balls. unsoaked hay "normal" poo.

did gradual change over to ODTC: no change in poo EXCEPT for color.

this week, took last amount of BSCG away, instead giving ODTC. poo
is now softer, bigger balls, with darker consistancy.

throughout, water consumption remained consistant UNTIL i took away
the blue seal: NOW he dunks the ODTC, and is creating quite the mess
in both food and water bowls. (do you know what happens to these
cubes in bucket of water??? EWWWW)

during bout of colic, he was very gassy, and passed 5-6 large piles
of "new" poo.

he DID have trouble peeing: vet suspects bladder infection.

Chief should have some boots/pads on his feet.

he is in boots and pads.


I would try to avoid shoes if at all possible.

shoes are last resort. shoes would ONLY be used for the numbing
affect they offer.
original founder was 9 years ago. at some point in time, quality
of life becomes the deciding factor: if continuing to try to correct
long term, irrepairable damage translates into continuing, chronic
pain for the horse, then barefoot becomes a matter of human ego and
not horse comfort.

Cold induced laminitis is possible and wrapping his legs to keep warm
should help. I have my doubts that the 20-30 minutes of turnout in
cold has induced laminitis...and you can help counteract that. I
think Chief needs MORE time out!

yes, this was my goal in taking him into the snow: more time out.
however, if there is a slight chance that our temps plus 6-8 inches
of snow, are contributing to his issues while he is fragile, then
outside time needs to be stopped at least temporairly. knowing him
as i do, i do NOT think the outside is as big an influence as the
vet. i DO think branches and berry bushes do play a bigger part.

Post pictures of his feet.

pictures posted under chief: feet with xrays and shoes are from 6/06

pictures posted of trimmed foot are from this past week and friday.

last xrays were taken 2/07 and are no longer revelant. new xrays are
schedule for march 11.

Colic is caused by many things but I would be suspicious of his

lack of water intake and hard manure as well as the diet he was on
and subsequent feed changes that have happened.

ONLY diet change is adding ODTC and reducing/slowly eliminating BSCG.

Use the vet for areas that you feel he is helpful, do your own

thing for areas that you feel are right for your horse.

lol, absolutely.

Adding Lysine & Methionine may help - depends on his current diet.

Biotin is a B Vitamin, may help. Having an overall tightly balanced
diet is the best "miracle" and you are well on your way with OD
Cubes. Healing from laminitis/founder takes time, balanced nutrition
helps, Lysine, Methionine and Biotin are not miracles....add them
AFTER the balanced diet, balanced trim are in place. Throwing the
kitchen sink at them is something we all want to do because we feel
so helpless....focussing on first things first IS helping you, your
horse and your budget.

and this is why i ask here FIRST :)

Barn politics exist everywhere. Smile, nod and work hard to get

Chief comfortable - he needs more turnout to promote circulation to
his feet. Allow him to move on his own. A Bounding pulse is simply
a very noticeable pulse. A pulse should be barely noticeable in a
healthy horse, shod or unshod. A pulse simply indicates
inflammation. It is not diagnostic of what kind of inflammation (ie
laminitis, abcess, etc).

in all honesty, i did not feel that his pulse was bounding: the
vet did. i was also taking into account EVERYTHING going on with
him. could it be felt? yes. did you have to look for it? yes
again. last night and today, you have to really search to find the
faintest of beats.
if i know this horse, i put a large portion of this down to
abscessing.

i will give him a couple days, and then i will go back to how i was
doing things? he really, truly has come a long, long way with my
care.
my only option right now is stall boarding: outside 24/7 led to
some of our issues.
i do my utmost to walk him 2-3-4 times a day, plus getting him
outside everyday for movement. since i can't give him more natural
lifestyle, it IS up to me to get him moving AND stimulate his brain
etc....

Val - as Angela said, get back to basics.

You have Diet under control. Diagnosis of IR. Let's have a look

at the feet - pictures? X-rays? Pads/boots? More turnout!

again, photos posted under chief.

val

Diet is as tight as I can make it under my circumstances (boarding).
Diagnostic bloodwork last spring and will re-test in a month for I/G.
She is not Cushing's.

Thanks for your help.
Susan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Make sure the diet is as tight as possible (any recent bloodwork?) and
appropriate pergolide if she is Cushing's.

www.fivepineranch.com

So sorry about Lucy,Linda !

We have another Morgan with hoof problems that have been pretty much
cleared up with the exception that her feet are always sore.

Her hoof problems haven't cleared up,though, if her feet are sore.Maybe
you meant the hooves look fine on the outside?
Can you provide details about the problems,her diet,age,life style, so
we can better help you ?

Lorna
Kingston

We never found out what the problem was. Only thing different with Tina was she ate the salt lick, and went in to a downward spiral. It was -30 celsius, and despite having a warm barn, the problem with giving i.v. fluids, you didn't want them to freeze. Shipped her to the vet and their warmer barn. Personally, I think a major part of the problem, aside from the salt, was most likely a seasonal rise in her ACTH levels. Ties in with her being so sore again this year. In neither case was there any sign of founder. Our major problem is constant abscessing. Phyllis
I wonder if the sudden salt craving was an indication of whatever was wrong with her

Sorry, I wasn't finished and somehow sent it off accidently.

Vet gave her banamine, bute and something called Dex (?). None of this
helped.

QUESTION 2?

We have another Morgan with hoof problems that have been pretty much
cleared up with the exception that her feet are always sore. She's by
herself now. Should I be extremely careful with her. She's never been
by herself. Could stress cause a flareup.


Linda R.
w. PA

PS: Have an almost full container of powdered bute. Started using it
just last week. E-mail me if anyone would like it.

Thanks Angela,

Have you considerd cutting back the
amount feed?


Yes, we'll have to do that from here on out. She actually was quite fit over
the summer. It's just our winter was so brutal this year. My arena's
outdoors and once that freezes, I can't do much. It's been a winter wonderdland here
since December. I just didn't adjust the feed for lack of exercise like I
should have. Plus you worry whether they're getting enough forage to stay warm.

thermal socks with the boots and how much for leg wraps?

...Probably more damage sustained or possible abscess coming. Does
she have pulses.

Can I just use people socks? Wasn't really sure if that would work or not.
Her leg wraps are insulated -- canvas shell with a thick fuzzy lining. The
bell boots are just the thick neoprene, but I thought anything would help at
this point. Yes, she's got pulses and she's obviously in pain -- constantly
shifting her weight from left to right. I wondered about abscesses. Nothing's
come through yet.

I've got Phyto-Quench coming!

Lori





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