I cannot find the emergency diet. Isn't there a place I can click on
to find out what it is? This forum is very good if you have a lot of
time to look for things, but I have trouble finding specific things
without searching all over. The search just brings up other things,
when I typed in emergency diet.
You mention it in different places, but where is it located? And if
you respond to this post where do I find it-in my e-mail?
Carollind@...

I would expect lower based on the discussion of the grey tubes
stopping glycolysis. If glycolysis continues then the glucose will be
converted to other metabolic substrates so less will remain.

Now here's a thought, if glycolysis is not stopped, therefore lowering
the glucose value, and the resulting glucose value still results in a
G:I indicative of IR wouldn't that horse still be IR? If glucose
levels are so high that even with loss it still gives a ratio of <4:1
surely it is safe to say that horse is IR because in reality it is
probably even worse than the figures suggest. But if you get a
compensated IR ratio the horse may actually be uncompensated IR and if
your results give a normal G:I then the horse may actually be IR or
compensated.

I would assume a false negative is a concern but not a false positive.
True/False?

Clair

I've foaled mares on grass hay only it is after the birth that the feed
reqirments go up and then I have gotten the foal onto feed as soon as he/
she will start eating - post foaling I use a feeder the foal can eat out of
with mum and fedd pellets - all have done well

Suzie in Oz



From: EquineCushings@... [mailto:EquineCushings@...]
On Behalf Of Cindy L. McGinley
Sent: Friday, 1 February 2008 9:47 AM
To: EquineCushings@...
Subject: [EquineCushings] Pregnant Morgan Mare Foundered



Hi Folks,


She is 11 years old and is about 2 months from foaling date
He doesn't have a computer that's working right now, so I told him I
would ask and let him know what you all recommend.

- Cindy and Alf (and entourage) in NY

Linda,
From what I've read here the labs that are handled improperly come back lower.
Mandy

"5 Pine Ranch" <fivepineranch@...> wrote:

Emergency Diet is absolutely essential.

Protein - get him to buy some whey protein ISOLATE at about 50 grams per day to start.

Vitamin Mineral support - need to know what is available in your area. What kind of hay is he feeding? Definitely need to be supplementing asap. Also need to consider calcium (hay type??)

Any chance he's interested in a consult with Dr Kellon?

Hi Amberlee,

He still has email he can access, so I sent him the above email and I sent him the beginner's primer, and I sent him the emergency diet, and I sent him the file on how to do insulin and glucose and how to get the ratio...I sent him lots of things I thought he could use after I spoke to him again this morning.

I thin he would like to do a consult with Dr. Kellon, so I sent her email address to him, too. So Dr. Kellon, if you get an email from Jason, Alf's farrier, you know who he is. :-)

BTW, he's giving all his horses Mare Plus as a suppliment. Does anyone know if that is safe, or even adequate?

- Cindy and Alf (and Connie and Dare and Saffron) in NY

Sherrie,

Didn't see a response to this, and I'm not that great with the
spreadsheets yet, but since you're getting a negative number in the
zinc, I'm thinking that you didn't calculate the copper manually. If
not, check out the Read Me stuff on the spreadsheets; if so, well, I'll
just hope someone else chimes in!

Vicki

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Sherrie Hilliard"
<sherrie_hilliard@...> wrote:

The spreadsheet wants me to add 168 mg
Manganese. Is this to balance the copper? The spreadsheet wants me
to take away 57 mg zinc. How would one do that?

--- In EquineCushings@..., "cjspackman" <c.thunes@...> wrote:

It is not uncommon for lab pick-up to happen in the evenings

If the samples are handled incorrectly, do the values tend to be
higher or lower?

Linda

In case anyone is wondering about the tube differences, the grey
topped tubes contain sodium fluoride and potassium oxalate which are
anti-glycolytic i,e, they stop the oxidation of glucose to other
metabolic substrates. The grey topped tubes can preserve glucose for
up to 5 days. The standard red topped tubes do not have any agents in
them (the lavender tubes used for ACTH contain EDTA). I believe there
are also tubes that separate out serum without centrifugation. They
are more expensive but possibly worth the cost.

It is not uncommon for lab pick-up to happen in the evenings as during
the day vets accumulate a variety of samples that need to be sent off
and doing them at once helps reduce cost. You could always offer to
ship them yourself if that is a concern.

Clair

The episodes are always close to his trimming but not necessarily related to it...The 1st one he was sore before trimming and shoeing, the second was right after a hot shoeing, one was in relation to changes in hay, this last one happened absolutely NOT in relation to trimming but the trimming made him worse. I posted his pics on this forum about 1 month ago and Abby commented that the feet weren't too bad, just needed "tightening up".
I'm getting slightly desperate here.


---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Yeah! At least I know the hay is safe -- Farmer/barn manager has been tell me she only grows good hay! I'll continue working on the spread sheets and then we can figure out mineral balance -- need a lot of help here.

Thanks,
Wendy

Re: Nice NSC figures

Hi,
I know this topic has been discussed alot lately. I was reading an
article by Dr.David Laird and he made a couple staements I wanted to
get the groups feedback on. First, he recommended the 5 day power pack
2 times per year.Does anyone think that is correct or overkill? Then
he said that the double dose strongid does kill tapes but needs to be
given 2 days in a row? Has anyone else done that or heard that?
he also felt the Panacur was best given in the spring and fall. The
horse here are never rotated off the field and the pasture maintance
is pretty random so I was thinking it best to keep them on a 8 week
rotation, I always follow up with a probiotic paste.
I would be rotating between Ivermectin, Fendabendazole, and
prynatel,but according to Dr. Laird I would want to be treating for
tapes and encysted strongyles twice per year not once per year.
Anyways, I would appreciate feedback.

Thanks so much,
Leah
Michigan

At 3:07 PM +0000 2/1/08, Meghan wrote:

However from what Ive understood for the many pet food reps, nutritionalists and reading on the net, is that you want the Omega 3 and Omega 6 to be in balance.

You want more 3 than 6, and whatever the balance, flaxseed does it.

Where he is boarded there is no area that isnt stressed-dying-dead grass. Moving him to another barn, just isnt a option at the moment.

What about a grazing muzzle?

Soaking his morning hay is also probably isnt going to happen, they way the BO does the morning chores. :( His night hay could be soaked and perhaps a small portion of his am hay.

You might not have to if you tested the hay and it was low enough in sugar & starch.

As for testing his hay, in my area it is VERY difficult and pricey to have the hay tested.

You can core your hay and mail it to Equi-Analytical. Ask for the Trainer #603 test. It costs $49, I think. Of course, your biggest obstacle might be to find a hay corer to borrow.
--

Sandy Su
ssu@...

Niki,

So, if I understand correctly fron this post, TC Premium Forage Cubes
are made by ODTB and are the same as the ODTB Balanced Cubes?

Yes and no....all the cubes are made by OD.

There are at least 3 different bags of cubes. The white bag from SS that says 'premium forage cubes'
comes in Alfalfa or Alfafa/Timothy (white and green label). The ODTB cube comes in a brown bag directly from OD...it has a lavender label. Only the lavendar label bag has BP and minerals in it to balance. It does not say TC premium forage cube...it says "Ontario Dehy Premium Quality Forage Cubes". Look for the lavender label on the bottom of the brown bag.

I didn't know the stores were franchises....no wonder some people run into such resistance from SS. Sad.

Mandy and Asher in VA

Don't forget, there's always the option of borrowing/buying a diabetic's
glucometer and doing an immediate stall side glucose at the same time the
blood is drawn for insulin. If you use a drop of blood obtained from the
vet tech's sample, and the option is available on the meter, reset the
meter from "capillary" to "venous" to get the most accurate results.
Remember that number and use it for your G:I ration when the insulin
results are returned.

We've had members in the past give us lovely progressively-improving
reports using that method.
Beth Benard

"Wendy" <w.golding@...> wrote:

am I correct in saying that the NSC for the barrel hay is 6.7% and the
night hay is 6.8%? It looks too easy just to add the ESC and starch
percentages???

Wendy (Rudy #5393)

============

Yep, you got it.

Amberlee

Hello Everyone,

I am new to the group so I don't have a lot to contribute but since I
just moved and had to deal with a new Southern States dealer I can
relay the information I was given. Southern States stores are
privately own and it is up to the owner to accept a special order or
not. My new dealer decided not to, which I understand since it was the
first time that I shopped there. This is why I decided to go with the
TC Safe Starch.

So, if I understand correctly fron this post, TC Premium Forage Cubes
are made by ODTB and are the same as the ODTB Balanced Cubes?

Nikita, Sasha and Mr. Thewell in MD

Pulling blood for glucose really is that tricky/picky. Grey tube top,
spun etc. We can use the insulin only for now with the
Treiber/Kronfeld RISQI equation. Glucose would be helpful if you can
have it done next time?

Amberlee

You get a gold star!!

YAY! Thank you so much!

you could probably drop the Phosphorus if
palatibility or expense is an issue.

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)

Excellent! I was wondering about that. Cassie hates added phosphorus so that is definitely a bonus.

OK, off to order from HorseTech and finish spreadsheets for the other two metabolic horses in the barn.

Thanks again!

Suzanne and Cassie
in icy NY

One more question.......any lyme in your area?

Amberlee

Was the insulin drawn after fasting? When had he last eaten before
this blood was drawn?

Do you have x-rays?

Amberlee