Pregnant Morgan Mare Foundered

Cindy McGinley

Hi Folks,

My farrier was by today to get a Davis boot (I have a draft size for Connie and he needed something big to put ice in). His Morgan mare foundered on Saturday. He noticed she was lame on Saturday and checked and she has heat in her feet (both fronts). He put her on one gram of Bute on Saturday and has been giving that every day up until today, when he upped her to two grams.

She is 11 years old and is about 2 months from foaling date. He was wondering what you guys would recommend to feed her at this point in her gestation. He was feeding her a 14% protein sweetfeed that she has always done fine on before and a May/early June cutting grass hay with some red clover in it that he feeds to everyone. He is going to put the styrofoam pads on her and bed her stall up about 2 feet with shavings.

He doesn't have a computer that's working right now, so I told him I would ask and let him know what you all recommend.

- Cindy and Alf (and entourage) in NY

Re: Cast Photos of Mandy

Abby Nemec

Mandy Woods wrote:
Who made Mandy's clog?
Mandy and Asher in VA
I made it from a roll of cast material, sitting in my living room. Her feet are only 2" by 3" on the bottom, so it would have been crazy to try to make a clog for her from wood. Instead I rolled the cast material in a flat pattern, around & around, until it was about 1/2" thick. Then I squished it very flat & hard under my foot on the floor so it would be flat on one side & roundish on the other. I dunked it in water, then once it was all set up I carved sole relief on the flat (hoof) side and used my nippers to shape the outside edge like a foot.

The clog was VERY slippery on the ice, but Mandy is a dainty walker so she did pretty well on it. I would not recommend a clog of any kind for a full-sized horse on winter footing.

I lowered Mandy's heels & cast her on the clog twice a month apart. I trimmed her heels too aggressively on the 3rd monthly trim, so she was a little achey after that. Barb rasped the bottom of the cast to lower her toe (raise heel angle) a little & that seemed to do the trick for her. Her 4th trim was last week & since her comfort was improving we took her off the clog & just used the cast alone. Haven't gotten an update this week so I don't know how she's doing right now but she did seem to like the semi-bare feel at the time.


Abby Bloxsom

Re: Does anyone in the Sacramento/Placerville, CA area have a hay corer?


Thanks so much, Mandy--The information that you provided on the timothy hay cubes is exactly what I needed to know.

Tally ho.....or maybe that should be Westward Ho!


making it all wortth while

emjewelry <emjewelry@...>

Today when speaking with the vet (about my old dog in the clinic for geriatric vestibular disease) she said, " say - I have some questions for you on another subject". She had another client in with a horse with laminitis that was overweight - told them of a couple other horses she has dealt with that are IR and that they should pull insulin on that horse. ( my horse and her full sister) Wham - very elevated. So her questions today were in regards to testing hay! WOOHOO - I felt like a proud mama - being able to rattle offf info on Equi-Analytical and to recommend the Trainer package. I did tell her that often owners shy away from everything as it seems overwhelming and often looking at a $49 hay test when that would buy 25 bales is hard to justify to some. I told her to feel free to give my name and number to this clinic if they have questions. There are some alternatives - and everything doesn't have to be hard - just baby steps. #1 - get that horse on a diet to lose some weight.

So - once again - it all comes back to what I have done (time, money, knowledge....) invested in my own IR saga and know that it has helped other horses right here at home. Knowing that my farrier and vet are so much better educated will in turn affect lots of horses in the years to come. Thanks Peaches (my coming 22 yr old IR mare) and kudos to everyone here on this list that has been my support, my shoulder and teachers over the last 3+ years.

It does count, it does help. So keep reading, keep asking questions and keep talking to those farriers, vets, feed store owners and feed companies. It does make a difference - even one horse at a time.


Iron and Overload in the Northeast - update

Nancy C

Hi List

Heard from Blue Seal today. For their Carb Guard I was given these figures:

Iron 390 ppm. They are not adding iron but, if I understand it correctly, they start with 140 ppm but with the naturally occurring iron in other minerals (like MgOx) and what comes from the processing blades it brings the level up to the 390 ppm. The big question is how much of this is absorbed by the horse.

The Manganese is about 118 ppm

The Mg (which they add) is .3%

I'm still learning (Please jump in anyone!) but I'm pretty sure the horse might get less from iron from kind this source. How much less, don't know. I think Dr Kellon has said, few studies on iron absorption have been done in the equine.

I have drafted a letter to the Poulin folks about the added Iron proteinate in Carb Safe. The gist of the letter is that with so much iron available in the northeast and with growing info on iron overload implication in humans and horses, we just don't need it and could they, please (pretty please) review their formulation and stop adding extra iron, especially in the more absorbable proteinate form.

A number of you said you'd like to write too and I'll send you each a copy with contact info. If anyone else in the northeast - including New York and PA - might want to help, write to me off list at threecatfarm "at" cyberpine "dot" net so we don't clog up the list.

As was said, it's a small market in the grand scheme of things. But we've been heard before and if you don't work to make change, nothing happens. It would be a good thing, I think, to continue to have choices if we can.

Off to test r/s/r beet pulp next.

Nancy C and Beau and Gabe in NH

Re: Ont Dehy analysis & BP questions

Mandy Woods

I"m not one of the hay gurus but I feed half cubes and half hay...I only balance my hay. The cubes are already balanced.
Mandy and Asher in VA

Picky Eaters Checklist

Nancy C

Dear List

Sometimes, in the midst of a frustrating human/horse moment, it's
hard to see where you are. After the last round of discussion on
"getting my horse to eat", we put together a checklist for those
still having a problem. These suggestions have worked for horses
both at home and in boarding situations. Each of these suggestions
came from the group archives and from members who have successfully
made the transition. They are proof that it can be done.

You can find the Picky Eaters Checklist at

You can also access this .pdf via FILES at the group home page. It's
in folder number 8, Pulling it All Together.

We hope this helps you to re-focus during times of frustration and
achieve the goal: a balanced diet critical to long term support of
your horse

Nancy C and Beau and Gabe in NH

Ont Dehy analysis & BP questions

Suzanne Clothier <clothier@...>

In trying to balance my rations, the analysis provided on the bags of ODTB cubes do not give me sufficient input for what the spreadsheet calls for. I've emailed Aurelio asking for more details on the BT cubes as well as the BP. Anyone here have any ideas on Fe and other important numbers that are not provided on the tag?

Second, do I need to "washing machine" the molasses free BP from Ont Dehy? or just rinse?


Re: Does anyone in the Sacramento/Placerville, CA area have a hay corer?

Jami <jnrsiemsen@...>

Valley Vet has APF on sale for $59.95 or 2 @ $56.95, free freight.

Jami in Placerville, Ca.

Re: new member

Mandy Woods

Yes, the Poulin Carb Safe is safe for your IR Morgan. I imagine you would be feeding hay too? We recommend that you test your hay for minerals and sugar/starch and then balance minerals to that. We really recommend beet pulp as a carrier for minerals, for fat horses to slim down on or slim horses to fatten up on!
Welcome to the list!
Mandy and Asher in VA

Re: Mandy, TC makes feed cubes?

Barbara <BarbaryPinesMorgans@...>


Where do you live? I have just been going round and round with Southern States (they are feed manufacturers and distributors) they carry triple crown products thus have access to the balanced cubes made by Ontario. If all else fails, the cubes can be special ordered and like Mandy mentioned "special orders" have to be prepaid. I was told the minimum amount to special order is 20 bags which is a half pallet and seeing as how I only needed 12 bags for my first order, I will have to prepay the 12 bags before they will actually put in the order which will take about 30 days to get. The part of the country you live in has a lot to do with how easy it will be to get the balanced cubes. I am in south eastern Virginia.

Barbara Carlson
Barbary Pines Farm

----- Original Message -----
From: Susan
To: EquineCushings@...
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 11:40 AM
Subject: [EquineCushings] Mandy, TC makes feed cubes?

new member

deborahmatuszko <deborahmatuszko@...>

Hi 9 yr. old morgan gelding just dx with IR, can you use a commercial
feed such as poulin carb safe less than 10% NSC rather than soaking
beet pulp? Thanks

Re: Mandy, TC makes feed cubes?

Susan <sbaumgardner@...>

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Mandy Woods"
bittersweetfarm@...> wrote:

Call your local Southern States store

XXXXX Is 'Southern States' the name of a store ? Or are you referring
to any feed store? Sorry, my brain must still be in sleep mode.

help with hay analysis worksheet

Sherrie Hilliard

Looking for how to balance this hay. Here's
what I think: iron, zinc, copper and manganese are all high but the
ratios are pretty close. The spreadsheet wants me to add 168 mg
Manganese. Is this to balance the copper? The spreadsheet wants me
to take away 57 mg zinc. How would one do that? The macro minerals
are all high, but the ratios aren't too bad. My K/NA ratio is off
and would indicate I need to add K-right? but I'm low on CL and I
which would mean I'd have to add salt which would further reduce my
K/NA ratio which is already low. Would you add Magnesium? The Ca/Mg
ratio is OK.

Sherrie & Blue
ps: Blues insulin last week was 68 and glucose 98. UGH. This was
basically a fasting draw.

Re: Cast Photos of Mandy

Mandy Woods

Who made Mandy's clog?
Mandy and Asher in VA

Re: Mandy, TC makes feed cubes?

Mandy Woods

Hey Susan,
I dont think they make it ~ I think they just repackage the OD cubes because OD is on the label. Call your local Southern States store and see what they have in stock and what they can order for you. If any feed store can get a delivery of Triple Crown products, then they can (if they want to) get a pallet of ODTB cubes. They may ask you to prepay. Also, you can write and find the nearest distributer to you.

Mandy, TC makes feed cubes?

Susan <sbaumgardner@...>

Is it true, Triple Crown makes feed cubes?
I don't see it listed on their website.... more info please.
Susan, Sundown and Mariposa

- _ _ _ _ _ _ _

- In EquineCushings@..., "Mandy Woods"
<bittersweetfarm@...> wrote:
Yes, its true that the cubes packaged by Triple Crown are made by
Ontario Dehy.

Mandy and Asher in VA

Sign-up for IR/Cushings Group discussions with Dr. Kellon

marilynehorodelski67 <marilynehorodelski67@...>

Dear Dr. Kellon,

I would be interested in 'joining' this.

Marilyn E. Horodelski

P.S. I have 1 aged horse with Cushings
and I have 1 aged horse with I.R.

Re: ODBP shortage

Harvest Moon <collieherd@...>

ccording to Aurelio at Ontario Dehy, they are not producing the plain
BP and won't have any until October because they are saving what they
have/need for the cubes so there won't be a problem with getting the

Thanks, Lavinia, that's a relief for me to hear!

--Shelley & Butterscotch (and Lacy & Annie, too)

ODBP shortage

laviniamfiscaletti <dnlf@...>

According to Aurelio at Ontario Dehy, they are not producing the plain
BP and won't have any until October because they are saving what they
have/need for the cubes so there won't be a problem with getting the

I haven't had a problem getting the plain Mid-West Agri BP shreds here
in RI. Wonder if this is a pelleted BP issue?

Lavinia, George and Nappi