Cushing Study


_The Horse: Cushing's, Parkinson's Link? Oklahoma State Researcher Receives
Grant for Study_ (

Dolly & Prissy

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Re: Hay Help - Grass hay in Illinois 3RD REQUEST

Sue <blwnkljmus@...>

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Cindy Lawbaugh"
<LAWBARABS@...> wrote:
on the stick and place an order.

I have since worked the Excel file for both my 1st and 2nd cutting,
and put in the files section. Because of the iron content being so
different, I'm thinking I need to supplement differently for the two
hays? Or should I average?
My first reaction to the iron difference is WOW! If that hay came out
of the same field, I would be really wonder if the analysis was
correct or the sample somehow skewed. Maybe someone else can weigh in
on this?

I would think that how you are feeding should determine how you
supplement. Will you feed one hay until it's gone and then start the
other, or will you feed them at the same time? (ie, a flake of each
at a time). If you are feeding at the same time, it would make sense
to average since that's how Syndiego will be eating it.

Sorry I can't help with the vitamin question. I use a little TC Low
Starch to get the supps in. You may need to google some supplements
and make the comparisons yourself.

Sue and Kramer

Re: Balanced diet and worsening symptoms

briarskingstonnet <briars@...>

Hi Dee,

The only thing that has changed in his diet was the TCSS, he was
doing well without soaking his hay. Last night and this AM I only
gave him a handful of the TCSS just to get minerals in. He is
slightly better than yesterday.
I agree with your plan to stop the TCSS altogether.Sounds a bit
strange,as others have said,that this would do it.But in the face of
the above it sounds really suspicious,doesn't it?

Good luck with that.


Re: Front Runner Cool Command feed

5 Pine Ranch

We could certainly review it with the young ones if you think they need more than the TC Lite. I liked the TC Lite for your situation because the hay wasn't the greatest. On the other hand, feeding more of a product like this (not to Jazz) means they'll absorb nutrients better.

Let me know what you find out and if we need to review the diets for the young ones. Are they still a bit picky about the oats & alfalfa? Is the weanling finishing it yet?

Please Visit Our Site!

Re: Front Runner Cool Command feed

Mandy Woods

Yes, thats what I was thinking of. So many feeds - so many companies and yet only 5 that we consider off the shelf safe!

Re: Balanced diet and worsening symptoms

dee howe

The only thing that has changed in his diet was the TCSS, he was
doing well without soaking his hay. Last night and this AM I only
gave him a handful of the TCSS just to get minerals in. He is
slightly better than yesterday. I can get BP but it won't get here
until beginning of Jan., I have to special order everything I buy for
this pony. I will try stopping the TCSS all together for a few days
and see how that goes. He will eat the mgox, salt, vit E and flax
all by it's self but I can put the copper and zinc in his aakg and
jherb syringe. If that doesn't work, I'll soak again.

This is only my 2nd fall/winter owning this pony, but he has never
abscessed for me. I can only imagine what his life was like before I
got him! I don't have photos but I will have some for you after
Santa comes in a few weeks.

WE don't use any pain killers, no bute or banamine! I know those are
bad. I will try the poultice idea when the weather gets really nasty.

Thanks agin for all your help! We'll keep you posted.
Dee and Rowdy.

Re: Front Runner Cool Command feed

Leslie Davis

I think the feed in Texas is called Aussie Logic / Cool and Calm...
So might not be the same as Cool Command... Don't know...
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by
how they treat their animals." Gandhi

Eating fir and aspen, alright?

skogshast <skogshast@...>

My 17 yo draft got laminitis about a month ago. After medication and diet
changes he is now fine, though he still needs to lose weight (we're getting
there!). His current diet consists of hay, some straw and a mineral
supplement; I board and have not been able to analyse the hay. I have also
ordered some Kwikbeet, intending to substitute that for some of his hay.

He has less turnout than I would wish (before he fell ill he was out 24/7).
The woods paddock available has some grass in it; certainly not much, and I
put out extra hay, thinking that should be a lesser evil than grazing, but
still I do not dare keep him there more than a few hours a day.

To give him something to do when stabled, I'm letting him have some aspen
and fir branches. He chews the bark off the aspen and eats the fir
wholesale. Does anyone know if there's any reason to be cautious with this?
So far there has been no ill effects, as far as I can see.

Lottie, in Sweden

Re: ACTH test time frame

Joan and Dazzle

Cornell runs these tests daiy (according to their posted schedule).

In the beginning, my vet didn't always send it right out, so it was
over a week to get it back. Now, I get it back in 2 days. The vet's
office overnights it. Cornell receives it the day after it's pulled.
The vet receives the results via fax the next day. Voila. 48 hours
later I have a result.

--- In EquineCushings@..., "horsecorrect"
<horsecorrect@...> wrote:

Would someone share the usual length of time for Cushing's tests
at Cornell?

Did not sign my post -- sorry!

minesafety <MineSafety@...>

The beet pulp plea was written by Ellen Smith, Pittsford, NY. sorry --
I forgot to sign it as requested a couple of days ago.

Plea to Nutrena /Blue Seal for Beet Pulp pellets - no molassas added

minesafety <MineSafety@...>

Dear Cushings Group Members: We have all seen the rise in the price of
beet pulp pellets, and the difficulty in obtaining this most-important
feed for our compromised horses. Nutrena sent out a newsletter this
fall to the dealers here in upstate NY stating that after January,
there would not be any more beet pulp pellets available through them,
because many of their farmers were switching to corn for ethanol
production. This morning I signed onto the Nutrena web site, and made a
plea for Nutrena to contract with farmers for beet pulp pellet
production -- no molassas added. I honestly find it difficult to
believe that farmers cannot make money off of this product. We have
seen beet pulp up here go from $6.85/50 lbs in the summer of 2006 (I
looked at my old bills) to $14.99/50 lbs this fall -- and this is when
you can find it. Our local Country Max was limiting sales to 100 lbs/
week per customer. So, my thought is for all of us cushings Yahoo group
members to contact Nutrena and /or Blue Seal with our plea. Obviously
there has been break-throughs in the best diet for
cushings /IR /laminitic compromomised horses and this consists of beet
pulp. Strength in numbers! This just may work to keep the beet pulp

Re: ACTH test time frame


I've gotten results back in three days from one vet, 2 weeks from another - go figure...

Re: I am in need of desperate help for my horse that is suffering with laminitis.

Harvest Moon <collieherd@...>

Blackeyedarabian, I was wondering where you live? If you post where you are located, maybe someone from the list is nearby and can help you figure all this stuff out first-hand. You sound like you're in quite a panic about this, and it's just been going on for so long. We all feel for you.

Getting your mare on the emergency diet is your first step in the right direction, and something you can do right now while figuring out the rest of this stuff.

If you can please not use all caps when you type, that would help a lot. It's very hard to read a post like that, I had to read it several times before I could understand what you were trying to say. Thanks!

Best of luck to you, I hope you will get the testing done to determine whether or not your mare is IR and/or Cushings, as then the folks here will be able to help you with the diet and management stuff. I struggled with my Shetland's severe founder problems for 7 months before someone finally pointed me in the right direction, and the folks and info here saved his life. Today, 10 months since his last founder, he's a healthy little guy with great feet and a strict feeding program.

--Shelley & Butterscotch (and Lacy & Annie, too)

Re: Symptoms of Chronic Laminitis

Eleanor Kellon, VMD


The signs of chronic laminitis are basically the same as chronic foot
pain from any cause. Most of the things you listed are pointing to
pain, but not why there is pain. Poor hoof quality isn't necessarily
seen in laminitis. Rings in the feet and a stretched white line would
be most suspicious *but* rings can occur for many different causes and
white lines can be stretched by poor trimming/hoof form.

A thoroughbred would be highly unlikely to have chronic laminitis as a
result of metabolic issues (unless the horse has PPID/Cushing's), but
she may very well be dealing with nutritional and trim issues.


Re: Front Runner Cool Command feed

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

--- In EquineCushings@..., "stormieqh" <brheikki@...> wrote:

My feed mill guy gave me a copy of "The Front Runner" Newsletter
today. It's the Nov 2007. It talks about the Glycemic Index and
it's not the best way to deal with horse grain but it also talks
their feed Cool Command.
That newsletter isn't on their web site yet. What did it say?

Looks like a pretty standard feed company web site. You're right that
without the detailed analysis, not to mention a complete list of
ingredients, can't really tell much. Too much fat for me.


Re: I am in need of desperate help for my horse that is suffering with laminitis.

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

Mandy forwarded me the mail with all your details. You have a vet visit
scheduled. From the sounds of it the issues to be addressed during that
visit are:

1. The hind leg infection/granulation tissue problem.
2. Get X-rays of all 4 feet to make sure they are properly trimmed and
3. Blood work to try to get to the root of the laminitis - CBC, blood
chemistry, insulin level.

She's a bit young to be running into problems with severe insulin
resistance but it's not impossible by any means so until you know more
it would be wise to read the file on the emergency diet you were sent
when you joined and get her on that.

Hang in there.


Re: Balanced diet and worsening symptoms

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

I agree that hay likely needs to be soaked for a horse that is
symptomatic. Without blood work it's hard to tell if the diet is
involved. Can you get beet pulp? No question properly rinsed, soaked,
rinsed BP is safe. 1/2 to 1 pound of TCSS is *probably* not the
problem but stopping it is the easiest way to tell. If he won't eat
his minerals otherwise, syringe them in for a few days. If this
doesn't result in improvement, start soaking the hay if you're not
doing that.

On the cold issue, it doesn't have to be very cold to get the pain.
40 degrees will do it. Are you giving him bute or any other pain med?
That will interfere with the J + AAKG. How long has he been on the J
+ AAKG? Has he ever abscessed? If not, that could very well be where
the pain is coming from - i.e. mobilization of abscesses. Any hoof
photos available? Is his trim good, done according to X-rays? You
could try hot soaks or hot packing his feet to see if that makes him
more comfortable. To hot pack his feet without mess, put the hoof
into a plastic bag and put a ball of poltice heated up in the
microwave (be careful, doesn't take too long to get it hot) into
another plastic bag. Put the protected hoof inside the bag with the
heated poltice and the entire assembly inside his boot.


Re: Front Runner Cool Command feed


That was pretty much what I was thinking. I'm trying to get more info
from the company but that doesn't always work!

I think I'm driving the feed guy nuts. It's to the point where places
know me as the "diabetic horse" woman and I'm afraid they are calling
me the "nutty woman with the diabetic horse" behind my back! lol
He is trying. I guess one other suppiers picked this line up or
something and he got the newsletter and copied it for me.

I'll work on the testing for it if I can.
I didn't care for how much they said to feed. Jazz would go nuts
getting that much of this feed and so little hay. She may like pellets
and grains but a mare needs her hay! I think she is asking santa to
bring her a round bale a day for the rest of her life. lol Just don't
tell her she is more then likely getting a new halter or saddle pad.

Re: Balanced diet and worsening symptoms


--- In EquineCushings@..., "dee howe" <deebo1718@...> wrote:

His feet are just sore all the time even
when he has boots on. I have taken the boots off because he never
leaves his barn, he has a huge run-in barn with lots of soft
He is always worse the colder it gets, but it's not been that cold
the last few days.


Before the diet changes you were feeding 10 pounds of soaked hay a day
plus flax, MagOx, salt and vitamin E. Are you still soaking the hay?
How is his weight and appetite now? It could be the TCSS is too much
for him with the higher fat and 10% NSC. If you're not soaking his hay
now, you should probably start again, especially if you know he was
doing better on soaked hay.

Other than the little bit copper and zinc we added, the biggest diet
change was the TCSS and if you stopped soaking, so I'd look there
first. For now, go back to soaked hay, drop the TCSS (use soaked and
rinsed beet pulp instead), continue with the flax, salt, vitamin E and

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)

Re: Front Runner Cool Command feed


Not in Texas but Michigan. Dang I'm swimming in snow I would LOVE to
be in texas. I so do not do winter.

I did email the company but of course no word back yet. I think I'm
going to ask the feed guy to get me more info about what's in it and
see if maybe he could get a sample or something. I hate to buy a whole
bag or having him order just one bag if chances are I'm not going to be
using it at all. Then it could be tested to be sure. I'm not just
feeding C/IR horses but it really won't fit in with the other three

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