Hello Everyone,

Someone ask if Accel Lifetime had iron and manganese. It has
5688ppm/pound of iron and 1102 ppm of manganese. Is that too high?

Nikita in MD

Hi Mandy,

Yep, we're almost neighbors! I am in Odenton right now, in Ann
Arundel county but soon will be moving to Hampstead in Carrol County
more to the north. Right now I do have a Southern States store near
by but not where I am moving so I am not sure if I should start them
on something new or wait to have moved and then pester the local
feedstore to order it.

Someone mentionned to use flax and drop the BOSS because Omega-6 are
too high in the BOSS. Why is Omega-3 better than 6?

Right now I cannot have the hay at the boarding barn analysed. So
really I have no way of knowing if they receive enough vitamins and
minerals. Being a worry wart I tend to oversupplement which is a
very bad thing, I know. I will feel a lot better when I can have the
hay analysed. Now if I give them, soaked hay, BP, flax, table salt
and some grain for Loki (he is a hard keeper) and their Biotin
supplement for the hooves, what are the risks of deficiencies or is
it impossible to guesstimate?

I will try to find the regional members and see if anyone is closed
to the location I am moving to, hopefully there are good suppliers
there.

Someone told me that Triple Crown Safe starch was around 15% NSC, has
it been substantiated?

Nikita and the Boys in MD

Hi Sandy,

Thank you for your help. They are both driving ponies and weather
permitting they work hard. Over the last six months Mr.Thelwell (9H
Shetland) has lost 50 lbs gradually, he has another 25lbs to go. My vet
wants me to go slowly to avoid trouble with his liver. My plans was to
do CDE's with him but he was diagnosed with a long soft palate and that
may not be the best sport for him so I am thinking more in term of ADS
Pleasure Driving. He has some mild allergies (sinus) and has responded
well to Cough Free but it is high in iron so I don't think I should use
that long term. When he is stuffed-up, I give him one or two sugar-
free eucalyptus drop and put a bit of Vicks in his nose.

Loki rides and drive, he was rescued as a starvation case and has
finally a normal weight, he is not an easy keeper.

In a few months I should have them at home and will be able to analyse
the hay.

Nikita in MD

Hi Mandy - I did, thanks! Although I just opened up the excel
spreadsheet, and see that I should have chosen metric. Oh well. :)

It's okay, I can do the math.

Thanks! I'm looking forward to seeing what my boarding facility is
feeding the horses!

Kristine & Cruiser

I used to feed the Accel Lifetime to my boys, who both turned out to be
iron overloaded. It is high iron, not only from directly added iron but
from some of the other minerals in the mix that are "contaminated" with
iron because of the form of the mineral that is being used. That is a
problem with many vit/mineral mixes. This added iron isn't part of the
analysis. Also, the actual amounts of the various vit/minerals in the
mix is miniscule and really won't address any deficiencies you may
have. Plus it is pretty expensive. You are better off just getting a
hay analysis and supplementing based on
that.
Lavinia< Nappi, and George

i have many toys in my horses dry lot.. I have the grazing ball (red) -
you can put a small pelleted feed(of course it has to be low ESC) and i have a
big green toy(do not know the name) where i put the ontario balanced hay
cubes in. Since you cannot soak the hay cubes in this toy, i just break them
into small pieces. I have a jolly ball, too. My paddock is called Apple and
Caroline's playpen!!! There are alot of toys out there but do not use any of
the likits. Too much sugar!!!

Michelle L. Chambers



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Erin, I have a well that has high iron water and 2 Cushings/IR horses
who are both iron overloaded so it was a definite problem. We had a
filtration system put on the water to remove iron and that has been a
definite
help.
Lavinia, Nappi and George

Tall fescue has its own problems, but ryegrass (definitely don't want
taht either) is the only nongrain hay winter option you have. Winter
pasture just isn't a good idea for an IR pony although a lot would
depend on the growing conditions.

Your hay analysis isn't in a .pdf format. It's a .docx, which I can't
open. Do you know about this group:

http://www.ncagr.com/HayAlert/

There's even financial assistance available if you have to buy out of
state hay, and good advice on safety issues with hay and pasture
under drought conditions. Lots of nice features on the site,
including hay for sale by county, other hay links.

We don't "prefer" TCSS over BP. In most cases, either one is used in
small amounts to carry supplements with the hay being the diet. If
you feed 100% TCSS, you won't need any balancing or hay, but some
have had problems with it as a complete diet, probably because of the
added fat. I'd be especially leery with a pony. Happy Hoof as a
complete diet would be another option. Not sure if you're too far
north for that. Could check with Aurelio to see if the OD Balanced
Timothy is in your area.

Eleanor

Eleanor

Kristine,
Usually less than 5 working days. Did you include your email addie? Mandy and Asher in VA

Hi,

I just sent out two hay samples to Equi-Analytical. How long does it
generally take to get results? (I'm impatient.) :)

Thanks!

Kristine & Cruiser

i feed TC safe starch foarage and TC low starch feed for my IR/cush mare.
The TC low starch feed, is this safe ? it sounds safe and I was told to feed
it but what is the ESC (or nsc) ?

Michelle L. Chambers



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Hi Kelly, what we try to encourage is herbal or feed temptations rather than "sweetener" temptations. Some ideas may include hay cubes or alfalfa pellets; Claire at www.witcheyladycreations.com has some herbal flavourings developed for our IR/Cushing's horses and http://www.skodeshorsetreats.com/ is another tried and true line of "treats and top-dressing" options.

Amberlee
www.fivepineranch.com
Please Visit Our Site!

In a message dated 12/9/2007 1:18:14 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
toranada@... writes:




Hi

I was wondering if anyone uses or has used Speedi-Beet instead of the
regular beet pulp.





I use it - I like it - it makes life a whole lot easier!!

Sue T.



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"Sandra Su" <ssu@...> wrote:

I found Blue Seal Carb-Guard is the tastiest feed that's
safe. My mare loves it plain, less so with supplements added.

Having had some of the same problems getting my Alf to eat, I thought I should add that he LOVES Poulin Carb-Safe plain (and so do the rest of my horses). So I guess it depends on where you are and what you can get (Poulin being a northeastern thing). But, like Penny, Alf also loves it less the more you add to it. That's why his minerals are now custom mixed by Uckele without the ground flax seed "filler." It helps cut down on the bulk of "other stuff" that I have to add to his food (and he flat out refuses to eat ground flax anyway). After a very long time experimenting, I finally have it so he'll eat his breakfast and dinner with most of the things he needs added to it, but it's iffy on some days still and he has begun to leave about a 1/4 of his breakfast every morning in his haste to get outside and eat hay. So I add everything he needs mostly to his dinner ration, which he cleans up over the course of the evening (no, he isn't crazy for it, and will eat his hay first when he comes in, but he does eventually eat his supper before I see him again in the morning).

He eats his Pergolide, on the other hand, with a handful of Carb Safe, so that I can be absolutely sure it isn't wasted. We call it his "snack," and he looks forward to it, though it should more properly be referred to as his appetizer, I suppose, since he gets it just before dinner. :-) He gets other stuff he absolutely needs in a syringe twice a day -- more insurance that he actually ingests it.

I think Penny and Alf have the dubious distinction of being the pickiest eaters on this group. (Although Alf *used* to be an equine vaccuum before his Cushings and IR were controlled!)

You have to experiment, and you may have to be creative. You'll find something safe that your own horse likes.

- Cindy and Alf (and entourage) in (central) NY

Dr Kellon, I have posted pictures of Gacy's front feet that were
trimmed 12/07/2007 after 3wks. She has been on a 4wk schedule but her
quarters and bars grew faster than normal, thus boots would not fit and
trimmer has her now on a 3wk schedule. I do not believe her soreness
is diet related as this started a few months ago when she was wearing a
plugged muzzle. No heat has been detected, sometimes I can feel a
pulse, no pounding though. I believe she is going through a
transitition stage, as you can see she is flat soled. Foundered in May
06, diagnosed IR Oct 06. Blood test in Nov came back in compensated
range. What do you think of giving her the J-herb for foot pain?

Jackie and Gacy




--- In EquineCushings@..., "Eleanor Kellon, VMD"
<drkellon@...> wrote:

---Does anyone know if it is safe to add a packet artificial sweetner
to the low starch grain I was thinking of trying it to help my pony be
more interested.
Thanks,
Kelly

Thats perfect Deb.

Let us know the results when you have them

Amberlee
www.fivepineranch.com
Please Visit Our Site!

At 7:48 AM +0000 12/10/07, Barbara & Melanie Soules wrote:

Does anyone have any suggestions for low-sugar additives or something to make dinner more palatable or perhaps a low-carb feed that might appeal to him more?

Barbara & Melanie,
I have a picky eater, too. I've really jumped through hoops to try to get her to eat her supplements in her feed. I board, and the busy barn owner is not going to syringe in the supplements, nor can I get to the barn daily to do it. Fortunately, my mare is compensated IR and sound, so I have more wiggle room than more desperate situations with more sensitive horses.
I found Blue Seal Carb-Guard is the tastiest feed that's safe. My mare loves it plain, less so with supplements added. So I was adding flavors called Equi-Sweet, which I ordered from Uckele, till Penny decided she didn't like them. I tried all the different flavors, and her favorite was peppermint, followed by molasses, then green apple, and last, cherry. Your horse may have different preferences. I suggest getting small bottles of all of them and experimenting.
But when Penny finally decided the Equi-Sweet didn't do it anymore, my inventive barn owner added a small amount of Healthy Equine Shine, which she gets from Country Supply. This is working for now. It also helps that in winter, the barn owner keeps the horses in their stalls at night, so Penny has a chance to nibble at her feed laced with supplements all night long.
If this ever stops working, I've heard that some people add coco soya. I might try that. And some time back, I asked for advice about how to mask the flavor of the supplements, and I got lots of suggestions. Search the old messages. I think the subject line said Picky Eater.
What didn't work that I tried: stevia & fenugreek (not together, at the same time).
Good luck with your picky eater. If you find some miracle additive that works for you, please share!
--

Sandy Su
ssu@...

Okay, now I feel even worse. I ripped out a pasture and planted $600
worth of wheat forage because I was advised by Dr. Mowry at NC State
that this was the best system to use for an IR pony.........I have
tried to figure it out on Safergrass.org but realized I have to be
specific to my area. So I consulted with The Doctor of Nutrition at
my State University College of Veterinary Medicine! I get very
frustrated! This is the first response I have gotten on this group
about the wheat. I was told NOT to plant rye, which I didn't. What
winter crops did others put in?????????????? I am in North Carolina,
coastal region.
So, does the group "prefer" the tcss to the bp????? if I buy the
tcss, does that mean I don't have to balance it? My horrible hay is
posted to a pdf file under Cinderella's hay.......the digestibilty of
the stuff is awful and the nsc is 22......we are having some major
hay issues in my area, and so this hay came from Canada. I feel like
giving up, but won't, of course. I have gone to great lengths and
expense to try and sort this out.
My horse is looking great. She is down from 1030 at 13.2 hh to 916
in five months on the bp/hay diet. No, the muzzle is not sealed.
The wheat is not mature (no rain) and so I have been keeping her on
my old bermudagrass acre with my four goats since October. That's
when I put in the wheat for the winter:( Guess somebody else will be
enjoying all my labors here directly because as I will have to move
the pony. I have eight bags of ryegrass seed in my barn, which I
didn't plant after buying. Is that what I am supposed to put in? I
didn't buy legumes on purpose......Tall Fescue? Is that it????????

Hello All,

My vet will be out tomorrow to draw the insulin, glucose, ACTH on
Sundance tomorrow at 9AM.

I have been feeding at 6 AM-1.5 pound soaked beet pulp with ER
supplements and 5# of hay dry. my hay is NSC=7.5)

Is that ok or should I not feed the beet pulp?

thanks so much,

deb