Date   

Winter Laminitis

carshonengelbarts@...
 

I believe I am dealing with winter laminitis in my husbands mare. We rescued this mare almost 5 years ago from a chronic founder situation. She had laid down and refused to get up. Our vet let me know about this mare and knew we could help. After a summer of abcesses in 2016 when we brought her home she has become a beloved and reliable trail horse. Wears a grazing muzzle, on an alfalfa pellet/beet pulp diet along with vermont trace mineral and locally grown grass hay. Here in NW IL we had a polar vortex that lasted a couple of weeks. She became seriously lame. We started blanketing her and wrapping her front legs and booting her. The weather has since turned more seasonal (for about 10 days) and she is still extremely lame. We are at a loss and not sure where to go from here. We love this mare and this hoof pain came out of the blue. We have added laminox to her diet.   She has been on the Beet Pulp/Alfafla feed for well over a year with no issues - she is fed this mash 3 x per day along with grass hay.


Re: Deworming ECIR Horses

 

Hi Mara,
Ive gone through a few things here and have found nothing related to time of year.  I try to deworm for tapes after a heavy freeze.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: interpreting blood test results - ECIR Calculator

Hilary McGregor
 

Thank you, Sherry for taking a look at Amika's case history and providing some suggestions.

Unfortunately, the hay I have this year is very low protien and the timothy cubes would not help. I worked with Kathleen Gustafson in the fall to balance this diet and we considered alternative protien sources at that time. It would take about a pound of green peas to provide enough protein and that makes me nervous having not tried them before and knowing they are high starch. Soy meal was too high in DE and I would rather avoid soy. I'd like to remove alfalfa from her diet, but this year just wasn't the time yet for us.

I'm aware, thanks to this group, that MSM can impact absorption of copper. I started MSM in December 2020 because of concerns about Amika's coffin joints (extensor process abnormality/fracture) and suspensory desmitis. Her diet was at 100% sulfur prior to MSM and with 24g/day MSM is now at 155% NRC recommended daily amount. I'm hoping that she is sufficiently supplemented for copper with the AminoTrace+ to not cause issues, but who knows! I'm planning to take Amika for specialist work-up in the next month or two when spring arrives so we know more about what we are working with. Happy to be pointed in the direction of specific info re: MSM and copper absorption!

As for MovEase, I couldn't find the ingredients of MovEase on the website - is this available anywhere? 

--
Hilary and Amika
Prince George, BC, Canada
Joined July 2019
Amika's Case History Folder
Amika's Photos Folder


Re: Deworming ECIR Horses

Mara
 

Is there a recommended time of year for the double dose, wait 2 weeks, repeat of Strongid?
--
Mara
NJ
2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mara%20and%20Enzo/?ord=dirname&d=asc


Re: Riosa’s Blood results - insulin spiked!

Sherry Morse
 

Heather,

Also wanted to add that for me this is a case where you take the numbers as a guide but you need to look at the overall picture too.  Even the most stoic horse (and most mares in my experience are pretty stoic) will let you know if they're hurting and you KNOW Rio.  As much as you worry - ok obsess :-) - over her care I'm fairly certain you would know if she wasn't feeling good.  So continue on the path you have planned out with starting to ride again and let Rio tell you if things are getting to be too much.  I think you really have everything dialed in with her now as far as her diet, trim and exercise plan so keep moving forward and hopefully the next test will be in a more normal range, but from where you started I think Rio's doing really well now.



Re: Lavinia mark ups please with laminar wedge advice 2nd try

Jeanne Q
 

I have posted new hoof pics.
Located on P. 3
Marked 3-3-21
I noticed the lateral shot is not a great angle so I will try an redo that this morning.

--
Jeanne Q MN 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jeanne%20&%20Glory
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=241360


Re: Riosa’s Blood results - insulin spiked!

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Heather,

By the calculator she's still IR and at risk of laminitis but by the numbers she's not in the danger zone of 80+ uIu/ml for the insulin reading.  So I would keep on doing what you're doing and see what that insulin number is the next time you test (assuming that the temperatures may not be an issue by then). 



Re: Lavinia mark ups please with laminar wedge advice 2nd try

Jeanne Q
 

Thanks Gilly!  Love getting ideas.  I will give that a try.
--
Jeanne Q MN 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jeanne%20&%20Glory
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=241360


Re: Riosa’s Blood results - insulin spiked!

Jennifer Murphy
 

I have nothing really to offer except that I feel for you!  I keep my Invokana in the house, so it's definitely stored correctly, and we had a massive insulin spike.  Oddly enough, this was after I started my second box of Invokana...I wonder if there's a quality control issue?  I can't be certain that Flea wasn't ingesting the pill, I'm just assuming that's what happened.  Hmmmmm. 

I'm feeding the 100mg pills, the batch # is KEL3400.  The 3 remaining boxes have different batch #s.  I don't have the previous box so I don't know what the batch # is from that one.  Maybe we can compare this information?  Is it worth looking into? 
--
Jennifer in NH
2020

CH - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Flea

Photo album - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=251041&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Re: Equus extra Vol 39 contains many recommendations that conflict with ECIR. What's to be done?SOAKING HAY

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Laura,

Here's a message from Nancy C.,which explains more about other nutrients leached out of hay,with soaking.
.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/135260?p=,,,100,0,0,0::Created,,minerals+leached+soaked+hay,100,2,0,1046273


--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Equus extra Vol 39 contains many recommendations that conflict with ECIR. What's to be done?SOAKING HAY

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Laura,

Hays usually contain excess amounts of potassium,so soaking is not an issue here.  Usually
 Have you checked the potassium levels indicated on your hay test ?
This may not be a concern.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Equus extra Vol 39 contains many recommendations that conflict with ECIR. What's to be done?SOAKING HAY

Laura and Ero
 

 If circumstances force you to soak hay on a long term basis, make sure you are feeding a broad spectrum vitamin /mineral supplement to replace those leached out of the hay. 

As it relates to the two articles about hay soaking (very helpful - thank you), I’m now wondering if I should be adding more potassium (as it leaches out w sugars) and/or increasing my Vit/Min dose? Given my boarding circumstances, I will likely forever be soaking my hay. 

Is there a base rule of thumb on how/what Vit/Min to increase? 

Laura and Ero

October 2020 | Colgate, WI USA 

Ero Case History

Ero Photo Album


Re: Equus extra Vol 39 contains many recommendations that conflict with ECIR. What's to be done?

 
Edited

My copy arrived on Tuesday, Mar 2.  I can send you a link if you like.

eta - in my mind, it’s quite obviously an advertisement.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Case Histories: What You Need To Know - Thu, 03/04/2021 #cal-notice

main@ECIR.groups.io Calendar <noreply@...>
 

Case Histories: What You Need To Know

When:
Thursday, 4 March 2021

Description:

Your equine's Case History is the most important step to be completed upon joining the ECIR Group. It is critical for obtaining timely and specific advice from the support team.   

 

If you are a long time member, migrated from Yahoo, please be aware there are changes in how information is to be properly posted.  We also have a new case history form. If your case history does not contain the IR Calculator Table please transfer all your information on to the new form. The new uploading rules and instructions are located at the bottom of the case history form

 

We take the importance of accurate information very seriously. The information in our posts and case histories is of tremendous value to all our members. To help protect the data and your privacy only members of the main ECIR Group are granted access to the Case History Group.  If you are concerned about privacy you need only give your first name and general location.  The use of pseudonyms to keep your equine professionals anonymous is encouraged. Please review the ECIR Group Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

 

Don't delay posting or updating your case history. 

Missing information it can be added as you obtain it. The faster your case history is completed with what you currently know, the faster you will receive the best support from the support team. 

 

Please take the time to update your Case History.  An up-to-date case history is invaluable when an equine emergency crops up. Accurate documentation of management changes, the equine's responses, blood work results and links to the equine's photo album not only helps the ECIR Group gain the trust and respect of science-based equine professionals but can be used by vets who are on the ground trying to help your horse. Your Case History is the best way to effectively monitor and illustrate the results in PPID and IR management changes. 

 

Please leave all your information uploaded. When the time comes that you or your equine no longer need the advice of the ECIR Group, please leave your case history folder intact. Your information will be used in the future to confirm or re-shape ECIR protocols and help other members learn.  This is the best way to “give back” to the ECIR for the help you and your horse have received. 

 

Photos go in the Case History Photo Section.  Please help the Support Team work as efficiently as possible. Read How to Make a Photo Album for the rules and follow the Naming Pattern for photos so the Support Team can quickly locate the photos they need to see.  

 

Thank you for your cooperation, 

The Owners and Support Team of the ECIR Group

 


Riosa’s Blood results - insulin spiked!

hdavis
 

Hello folks!

Seems the cold weather is affecting some of us and our insulin levels these days along within some storage issues with some of us using Invokana.  I am lucky to now be a member of this club as Riosa’s recent blood work has shown a dramatic jump from out last bloods in Dec.

Here is our latest bloods:

insulin 313 pmol or if divide by 6 = 52.16 ulu/ml 

glucose 4.7 mmol or multiply by 18 = 84.6 mg/dl

if I did those conversions right that is.

when I entered it in the calculator I get this:

G/I = 1.62 - what does this mean
RISQI = 0.5 normal is greater than 0.32, so does this mean we are in the normal range?
MIRG = 14 - greater than 5.6 = increased risk for laminitis 

Riosa has been doing great on Invokana so far or so I thought but her blood work in Dec was higher than the fall’s which could have been due to colder temps.  But in January I realized I was not storing my Invokana at the required temps, as it was in my tack room which is below 15C most times in the winter and sometimes even dips down past 0 if the breaker gets flipped due to too many trough heaters plugged in. 


I realized this when I was 3 days into a new box.  I immediately replaced this box with a new one which I started on Jan 24. Blood work was done Feb 12, meaning she was on the new box for 19 days.  Plus we had some brutal cold temps as well during that time too.

Can someone give me some guidance on her blood work and if I should be backing off her workouts or how to proceed?  I haven’t seen any lameness issues but now this makes me worry too as she is a pretty stoic little mare snd could working her with this high of insulin be causing damage to her?  She seems in good spirits and her sassy little self when she interacts with the other horses and when we play and work in the outdoor arena.  We are not riding yet but was hoping to start riding her but now not sure if this is a good idea or not. 

Looking forward to hearing some feedback. I will update her case history with the new labs.


--
Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819 


Storm

Case History


 




Re: interpreting blood test results - ECIR Calculator

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Hilary,

Just to add that in Canada the ODTBC are called Ontario Dehy Complete Cubes.
Same great product.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: interpreting blood test results - ECIR Calculator

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Hilary,

From the case history doc I would stop the alfalfa cubes and replace them with the Ontario Dehy Timothy Balanced Cubes (ODTBC) or increase the hay to make up for them; but make sure you're still feeding with the idea of getting her down to her goal weight.  Also, the MSM can be problematic for some IR horses (see message https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/259636) so that's something that you might want to replace with a different joint supplement (MovEase from My Best Horse is one that many of our members have found works well for their IR horses).

As far as the unusually low insulin result there could have been an issue with handling or processing the insulin sample.  The exercise may have been helping as well.  If you need to test her again that might provide a better overview to see if that test was an outlier vs. normal for her when she's in work.



Re: Equus extra Vol 39 contains many recommendations that conflict with ECIR. What's to be done?

Sherry Morse
 

Nancy,

I did wonder though if it's recycled and that's why there's no date on any of it so I just did a search on the title of the first article and found that article was originally published in 2016, presumably posted online in 2017 and updated in 2019: https://equusmagazine.com/horse-care/insulin-resistance-55272.  I may have missed something but it doesn't look like anything was changed from the 2019 version to what was published yesterday.




Re: Equus extra Vol 39 contains many recommendations that conflict with ECIR. What's to be done?

Nancy C
 
Edited

Sherry and all

Is there a date on this "extra"?  I have not read the whole thing however it seems there is research that is contrary to some of the info.

To anyone who who needs support info for their positions when interacting with their local pros, please look through the significantly resourced library of NO Laminitis! Conference proceedings on www.ecirhorse.org

And -- don't forget, our 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference is coming up via remote delivery. Save the dates August 13-15, 2021.

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/261577

More later.



--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 13-15, ECIR Virtual Conference Room


Re: Purina Equitub with Clarify

 

Hi, Penny.
In addition to Sherry's response, the Files have a folder on feed through fly control:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Fly%20and%20Pest%20Control/Feed%20Through%20Fly%20Control
You can read Dr Kellon's comments on the active ingredient in Clarify Larvicide, diflubenzuron.To work, most of it passes through the horse and into the manure. It's extremely toxic to aquatic invertebrates (dragonflies and crayfish, for example). 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos

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