Re: Urine testing and grazing muzzle

Patti SoCal 2020

Thanks so much, Dr. Kellon. Yes, After reading the instructions for the test strips, i was confused as to what I was looking for ūü§™
SoCal 2020                                        

Re: Urine testing and grazing muzzle

Gilly Edwards

I use tough 1 easy breathe muzzle.  They have nice big holes for their nostrils!

Re: Red Light Therapy


I came across this thread as I was wondering if Red Light Therapy would benefit Buzzy, once we get his insulin under control.  The trimmer thinks his vasculature has been compromised and therefore is not growing hoof. Is there any method of treatment that has been studied along this type of therapy applicable to mins?  I have a daughter who is a DPT and uses these types of therapies for patients. Thank you!!
Marsha and Dame - Buzzy TN 2019

Re: Update on Cadet, insulin is higher after 4 months on Invokana

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

Could you please add Invokana date started and dose to your case history? How are you giving it and making sure he eats it all?
Eleanor in PA 
EC Owner 2001

Re: Urine testing and grazing muzzle

Eleanor Kellon, VMD


We've had conflicting reports on the glucose reading, I think because some people are waiting 2 minutes and others 30 seconds. Bottom line is that normally there is no glucose in the urine so if you are getting a positive that's an indication the drug is working.

The Best Friends muzzle completely plugged is a good choice. There are also muzzles that are wire with fine holes which will work for this too.,495.html
Eleanor in PA 
EC Owner 2001

Re: Aragon's hoofs


Thank you so much everybody, i fell like i'm taken by the hand... i can already see some improvement of Aragon condition already. Crazy!!! I did weighted him with the tape and he is 1117 pounds, i will go correct it on his case history. i think i might not have done it properly the first time... I ordered a mask for his pretty blue eyes too...
In the day time, he is doing better, in the morning and at night he seems to have more difficulty.. At this time of the year, days are cool, and night gets really cold.. could it be related to his pain? 
For his hoofs, i am scared of doing this myself... I will if i have too, actually i would do anything for him! But i'm really scared of doing something wrong. I'm just getting use to work with a grate, to shorten his toe. Seems like i will have to do it anyways if nothing have change between 2017 and 2020..  I will do my best, starting by taking these horse shoes off and take the pictures needed. I have found a pair of easy rider boots that he had in 2017 :) for his hinds he has cavallo treck boots and old mac's G2... and i think i can add studs for ice... Can you guys tell me wich boots would work better?

There is a small animal vet in town, but they won't come to draw his blood because of an insurance matter!! You guys think i could do it with a human device for blood sugar testing?? But after talking with both vets, ( horse and small animal in town) They agree that they would test his sugar level in town, but that won't be until April :( 
Is the broken back can be reversed in his hoofs? Will he be able still to run on our never ending sand beach (in summer)? 
Ok, i will try finding his ideal weight, for now i'm giving him 9 Kilos of hay/day. I still did'nt receive the beet pulp... probably tuesday. And i will redo the hay analysis with A&L Lab. 
You guys are awesome and so generous. Thank you. 

MyriamD, Qc, Canada

Urine testing and grazing muzzle

Patti SoCal 2020

 We are on day 8 of Invokana with my EMS/IR/PPID horse. He is walking normally for which I am very grateful! I have two questions:
1. When I test his urine, am I looking for the glucose to be at the darkest brown on the test strip?

2.  If he continues to do well, I’ll begin to hand walk him. He will need a muzzle since there is grass along the road  we walk. I have never used a muzzle before. Are there any you recommend?
SoCal 2020                                        

Tens Unit


I have  looked in the archives and only saw one post regarding the use of a tens unit.  I am wondering if anyone has tried using one to increase the circulation to the foot? I am also curious to know if massage therapy would be an option for a PPID/IR mini. Our trimmer believes his circulation is impeded due to sinking and rotation from his laminitis.  We are on a journey to help this little guy!
Marsha and Dame - Buzzy TN 2019

Update on Cadet, insulin is higher after 4 months on Invokana



I had been waiting for a warmer day to check Cadet's insulin and it finally went above 40 F last week.  His CH is up to date.  I was disappointed that his insulin had gone up since November; maybe because it was still too cold?  He has been sound at a trot on sand and grass since early December.  He is still wearing Cloud's 23 hrs/d, with socks and leg warmers depending on the temperature.  I hand walk him for 30 mins daily, usually with 5 minutes or less of gaiting and trotting.  When he plays in the outdoor arena with our other horses, he usually trots, canters, rears, and bucks without apparent soreness.  My farrier has been happy with his feet.

I'm hoping for some ideas to further lower his insulin.  I would like to increase his exercise, but with his insulin this high, would this cause him harm?  With our current boarding situation, I am unable to limit his hay consumption or soak his hay, but his weight is stable.  Is a higher dosage of Invokana an option, or a maybe try a different SGLT2 inhibitor?  His urine has never had more than 500 glucose, but the specific gravity is usually 1.000 or 1.010 on the dipstick.

I am afraid that there is ongoing damage to his feet and acute laminitis could recur at any moment.  My husband and I were hoping to move from Michigan to Washington this summer, but transporting him seems to be a huge risk unless we fly him out there.  I would guess that giving him daily medication would be problematic for a commercial shipper.  I am trying to find him a place at a boarding facility with track turnout to increase his movement; there are very few available.

I appreciate any suggestions and remain very grateful for the support of this group.
October 2018
Oakland County, Michigan, USA
Cadet Case History:
Ruger Case History:

Cadet Photo Album:

Re: Elevated insulin levels, chronic founder, Cushing

Nancy C

Hi Anissa

You are getting a lot of info at one time and it can get overwhelming. I'd just like to clarify about Heiro, please, if I may.

The main ingredient in Heiro is magnesium, which is hugely important especially when dealing with metabolic horses. Many of us have seen good improvement when the correctly balanced amount of magnesium is added to the diet.  You are not hurting your horse by giving him/her Heiro. Magnesium is recommended in the emergency diet is an amount that will  get you started until yo can learn more about what is an amount required for your hay.

The big problem with Heiro is the marketing hype that promises many things like returning EMS horses to pasture.  I have lost count how many members of the ECIR Group have found Heiro does not live up to this promise in correctly diagnosed EMS equines.

Members can usually find magnesium in a more cost effective way. For example, I buy a 50 pound bag from a feed mill for $22.  Lasts forever as long as you keep it dry.

Hang in there.
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 13-15, ECIR Virtual Conference Room

Re: Lavinia - mark ups requested

Lavinia Fiscaletti

Hi Lisa,

You're correct - with the shoes+pads, sole shots wouldn't make much sense. In general, the trim needs a huge amount of correction.

Would you please also get pix of the hind feet.


Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR

Lavinia - mark ups requested


Hi Lavinia!

Ok - i figured out the furry photos and have added them to the album. I did not add the sole photos since he is in shoes and pads currently & I made the assumption that they would not be super helpful. I can do that if necessary. 

My farrier is coming Friday, March 5 & I can get the sole photos then.  I will also post additional hoof photos once that trim is complete.

Is there anything I am missing? 

Thanks in advance,
Lisa and Haven
Independence, MN

Haven's case history: 

Haven's photos: 

Re: Managing hoof boots

Julie Thomas

Hi Sue.  I don't have much to add to Heather's extensive, great ideas.  My QH (Ike) been in boots close to 24/7 since June 2020.  I have two pairs of Cloud boots with cushions for each pair.  When the weather is wet (snow or rain), I change them daily.  I take the cushions out of the boots, clean out the boots with the brush end of my hoof pick, and put them on a Peet boot dryer.  This ensures I have dry boots by the next day if I need them.  I also use Gold Bond foot powder in the boots.  When the weather is dry, I only change boots as needed (approximately 3-4 days).  The only time Ike doesn't wear his boots is when he is in the round pen; the sandy footing doesn't seem to bother his feet like the hard ground of the dry lot.  Weather permitting, I try to put him (and his buddy Sparky) in the round pen to play for 1-2 hours; the play is good exercise & Ike gets time out of his boots.
Julie Thomas
September 2018, Seabeck, WA
Case Histories:  .
Ike Photos:  .
Sparky Photos:  .

Re: boots

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer


Daisy Shepherd

has anybody tried the new easy care sneakers? came out i think 12/2020.  thanks, daisy and tiko
Daisy, Tiko and Whisper
CO, April 2019
Case History: 
Photo Album:,,,20,2,0,0

Re: Upsetting Info on Equi-Analytical 601 & 603 tests

Eleanor Kellon, VMD


If you find a lab you are interested in but don't see a standard profile, I would call them or e-mail and ask if they offer DE horse and ESC, Starch by wet chemistry. Many labs are geared to dairy because that's where the vast majority of their customers are
Eleanor in PA 
EC Owner 2001

Re: Managing hoof boots


Hello. I am sure others will chime in here but thought I would share my experience with boots and living in Manitoba, Canada where we have winters full of snow and cold temps.

I have found in my experience for winter the best boots are the cloud boots as they are taller and help keep snow out of the boot.  My horse suffered from winter laminitis so I also like the pads in these boots as they are thick and provide extra insulation from the ground.  My horses are kept in dry lots during the winter and 2 of them are booted.  So far I have not had to add any ice studs for their boots as most times we have a good snow covering and if it does  get a bit slippery they are just careful.  But adding them is an option if you are worried about slipping.

The cloud boots are a heavier canvas type boot so i actually water proof my boots and reapply as needed. This helps keep them dry from the wet snow.  I usually change the boots out for a fresh pair every couple of days depending on weather and temps.  Sometimes more if we have extremely wet snow.

As my horse sufffers from winter laminitis I also add in a few more things for winter to keep her feet warm and dry.  This year I added a liner to her boots when we dipped down past -20C.  This was made from fabric bought from the fabric store which is used for lining coats or window shades. The fabric has an outside heavier fabric layer then a foil layer and finally batting layer. This has been a great addition for us.  I also use 100 - 80% wool socks which I actually found at a men’s work wear store close by.  What a a super sweet score that was as socks with that high of wool content seem to be hard to find these days.

I use 2 pairs of socks when we dip down past -25C.  A thinner wool sock under a heavier wool sock.  Then I add a shipping boot over as this keeps snow out and my horse’s legs warm. FYI I also water proof my shipping boots too. The addition of the liner helped a lot as previous to this in really cold temps her feet still felt cold.  Now they feel warm to the touch instead of cold.

Depending on weather temps during the day sometimes I take the shipping boots off and just leave the socks on.  I change socks out in am and pm and liners if needed. Liners can usually last a few days but socks need to be changed to ensure they stay dry I find.  

It’s important to make sure socks are not wet as can cause rubbing and makes feet cold and can create thrush issues too.  You can also add in gold bond powder to the sock that covers the hoof to which can help keep it dry.  

Hope this helps you a bit!  Ask if you have any questions on what I do.  Perhaps I added in more than u asked but wanted to give you the complete setup.  

August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada



Case History


Re: Aragon's hoofs


Hi Myriam, 
I love to look at maps so I took a peak at where you live.  Fascinating.  My friends took their boat from Vermont down the St Lawrence to the ocean and then down the coast and it occurred to me that they may have stopped there to restock.
So, seeing where you live and your very low glucose report, I had the same concerns as Lavinia about getting your blood samples to the lab without degradation.  That is something I would definitely look into before having more blood drawn.  Do you have a small animal vet in town?  Many of our members have enlisted their help when drawing blood and getting it tested.  They, of course, would need to be aware of the same degradation concerns.
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


Managing hoof boots


My horse, Boss, has recently been diagnosed EMS with insulin levels >200. He is very foot sore and I'd like to use hoof boots with pads to help alleviate this. He is in a paddock with ice and snow footing and has a run-in shelter with loads of shavings to provide some softer footing. He has been improving slowly over the past 2 months. First are hoof boots appropriate in this environment? I've looked for info on boots in this group but have been unable to find any, what have I missed. Also, if boots are used how often are they removed and put back on? Do they work on icy footing?  
Sue M in ME 2021

Re: Elevated insulin levels, chronic founder, Cushing

LJ Friedman

You are to be commended for coming to this group. Heiro  sounds like the greatest product on earth. Except it does nothing. So good for you for trying but they’ll be many better things that you will get from being here.  . welcome 
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse( over the rainbow) and majestic ‚Äės Case History¬†
Jesse's Photos


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