Date   

Re: Another crosses the Rainbow Bridge

Shari Starr
 

Lisa, I send you hugs in your grief of the passing of your beautiful Miami & Smokey to spirit. I lost my heart horse, Snickers, 2 years ago this coming June. I had only just 2 weeks prior to his passing found & joined the ECIR but  had been following most of the protocols for caring for a cushing's diagnosed horse that are practiced here. The journey has been hard, very hard but I'm coming out of the raw grief & now can mostly think of my love Snickers & smile instead of cry. If you want a group of lovely people to walk beside you in this grief pleaase come find us at th yahoo equine grief support group Hoofbeats In Heaven. I'll light 2 candles in honor of your loves, gone ahead, Miami & Smokey. Hugs to you Lisa. Shari, Angel Snickers mom

 


Re: Another crosses the Rainbow Bridge

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Lisa,

I'm so sorry for your double loss. You know you did the right thing but that doesn't necessarily make it easier. Hugs to you during this difficult time.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Nappi and George over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

>>>>>
RIP Miami and Smokey - both of you were very much loved and will both be greatly missed.

Lisa
Victoria, Australia


Re: 11 year old PPID gelding On an OFF eating

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Corinne,

How is Jasper acting now? Still off his feed or better? That he is moving more and better is an improvement, even if it makes catching him more difficult. He may be reacting to the fact that he was so sore and doesn't want anything to do with anyone at the moment.

Can you just syringe the doxy in rather than mix it in his food - that way you can tell if it is the doxy he is wanting to avoid or the food in general. Try feeding him first, then syringing in the supplement, then the doxy so it doesn't interfere with his wanting to eat.

He is standing a bit differently in the pictures so that may be why he's looking like he's gained weight. His back is level and hind end is tucked under. Likely his feet are still bothering him but to a lesser degree. When you have a moment, can you get some new pix of them now that the shoes are off?

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: New hoof photos, opinions on why so sore??

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Tiffany,

For the purpose of xrays and trimming, the nerve blocks are a great idea. Nerve blocks will allow a foundered/penetrated horse to stand comfortably (ask me how I know...) so you shouldn't have any need for sedation.

Dr. Kellon has said that withholding for 24 hours for a procedure, just in case, would be appropriate.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: Flame's new bloodwork

Nancy C
 

Hi lj

If your horse has tested low thyroid and/or is being given Thyroid supps for weight loss, it is good to keep an eye on thyroid when you test. Best way to determine what is going on is to review lab history, make sure diet is tight, maybe wean of thyroid supp and retest. It can take some time to come back to normal but, IMO, you will never know what is truly going on while on the supplement. 

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Invest in the health of your horse and help ECIR Group nonprofit at the same time! Hear Drs Kellon, Bowker and more, in eight hours of great info and informative Q&A from 2013 NO Laminitis! Conference.

http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/conference-proceedings-recordings






---In EquineCushings@..., <lj_friedman@...> wrote :

would it be prudent to rule out euthyroid sick syndrome? 
ECHistory8

 




Re: Flame's new bloodwork

Nancy C
 

Hi Beth

Thanks for your case history.  You insulin and glucose are  high and we need to separate out what may be driving it.  Best way to sort through the conundrum is to go back to DDT+E, in this case D&D.

Diagnosis - Based on an ACTH of 17 in April, it does not appear he is PPID. I might try testing ACTH in August to see where he is, especially if symptoms persist. Would definitely want to know more about why my vet was recommending pergolide with this current ACTH level.

Not clear to me why he was put on Thyrol-L.  Were labs draw at that time or was it for weight loss? If labs were drawn can you post them in CH?  I'd be looking into whether he still needs it.  Majority of members have found that once the  underlying diagnosed issues and diet are addressed, thyroid comes back to within normal range.  I would be looking at that for sure.

Were ambient temps at 40 degrees or less when the blood was drawn? You are in NV so unlikely, but with all the crazy weather, I have to ask. That could drive the insulin and glucose. 

Iron overload and lyme disease could also drive insulin and glucose.

Diet - Understand your dilemma RE:  hay.  Although you have had your hay tested previously, it sounds like it may change often. Is that right?  If so you just cannot be sure of ESC and Starch levels and mineral content without testing each batch.  I think you know this b/c you soaked before testing, but just want to be sure. Low ESC&Starch and very tight minerals are in order, especially addressing magnesium, copper and zinc.

He's getting a lot of food based on what is in CH. 20 pounds of hay and 10.5 pounds of Cubes, Nuzu and BP. Is that right? If he is not eating his hay, the amount of cubes, etc., may be filling him up and putting him off.

IR horses can be skinny.  I have one.  If he is eating it all, the amount of food he is getting for his weight would make me look to D&D for more answers.

Would seem your options are: (1) test the hay every time it changes or obtain the info from the growers if they have it.  If it truly comes from the same general place in Nevada, you may be able to develop a profile you can live with in the future.  There are still no guarantees though.   (2) Try to negotiate again with BO.  There's some guidance, written by a member who is a barn owner, that may spark new ideas for you in the FILES.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/search/files?query=dealing%20barn%20owners

 

If you can't come to mutually acceptable agreement with BO, then I'd move the horse.

Either way, if you want a compete feed the ODTB Cubes would be your best bet.  The Standlee would still need to be tested and balanced, unless you can coax the info out of the company on every lot you buy.

We'll take care of the stray files. Thanks for the heads up and thanks again for your CH.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

FACT: With knowledge of the nutrient profile of the forage and the animal's weight and level of work, one can supplement only what is needed to target nutritional needs.  See  Smithey and Gustafson, Nutrition Complexities and Mineral Profiles of Hay 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 





---In EquineCushings@..., <bethy004@...> wrote :

 


Re: Availibility of ALCAR and Equi-Omega from Uckele

Melanie Christensen
 

Thank you so much Lorna!  

Melanie


Re: Availibility of ALCAR and Equi-Omega from Uckele

Melanie Christensen
 

Thank you Donna!  Everyone is so helpful and has quick replies!

Melanie & Clyde
January 2015 MN


Re: Another crosses the Rainbow Bridge

bizzibizzigirl
 

Thank you Kathryn.  I do wonder this myself sometimes too.  I'd been saying that it would be nice to get back to looking after two riding horses as it had become very draining in all aspects.  I think the Universe agreed that it was time to be enjoying them again and thankfully left me with the two that are healthy and rideable.

There is a huge void out there.  I'm still getting used to only seeing two out there.  It's very strange and grief is a strange beast at times.  One minute I can be laughing at the antics of these two and the next, I tear up remembering the times the other two would run and play with them.  I think the older gent I have out there is missing Smokey as they would often play together so he's getting extra carrot treats.

Time....

Once again thank you to all the wonderful people here.  For your advice, support and kindness not just now but when Miami first foundered and through his rehab process.  You helped me to not feel so alone xxxxoooo

Lisa with just Condor and Gerry
Victoria, Australia


Re: ACTH levels and retesting

janieclougher@...
 

Hi, Cindy - Most horses will respond to pergolide within two weeks, and virtually all within three weeks (only one study that I can find, and I don't have access to it right now) So, testing three to four weeks after a dose  increase will give you the information you need. For others in this position, if there are only finances for one test in 2015, then test in August before the seasonal rise. Ideal would be for you to test a month after reaching target dose, then again in August, then gain in November if all is well. I do realize that this is a lot of money!

Jaini, Merlin, Maggie, Gypsy
BC09
ECIR mod/support


......... And I'm good with that BUT she does not want to test again for 6 months. She says nothing will show if we do any sooner. I know that's not true and that will be right in the seasonal rise time. How soon can she be tested after changing her pergolide dosage?


Cindy Ross,
​Maine 2012​


Re: Thank you for the surprise!

janieclougher@...
 

Wowzers!  That just totally made my day, and the day of every other person on this list!  Thank you so much, Michelle, for the update. I am doing the happy dance for Jim, Elijah Mustang, and you!

Jaini, Merlin, Maggie, Gypsy
BC09
ECIR mod/support


.........Such a difference, so quickly! SURPRISE- JUST 2 MONTHS ON A MINERAL RATION/FLAX, R/S/R BP, VIT E, ODTBC'S & his regular hay, AND HE IS RUNNING AROUND AND HAPPY, with no negative consequences the next day!


Michele & Elijah Mustang, Everson , Wa , Jan.2015

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Michele%20and%20Elijah%20Mustang%20Jan%202015/ 



Re: Another crosses the Rainbow Bridge

janieclougher@...
 

Lisa, I am so sorry.  Losing two so closely together is very, very hard. Kudos to you for thinking of both Miami and Smokey, and making the right choices for them.  May they run joyfully free together.  Many, many hugs to you.

Jaini, Merlin, Maggie, Gypsy
BC 09
ECIR mod/ support



RIP Miami and Smokey - both of you were very much loved and will both be greatly missed.

Lisa
Victoria, Australia


Re: New hoof photos, opinions on why so sore??

Tiffany Woodward
 

Lavinia, or anyone else...

I am in the process of coordinating a day/time for both the new farrier & vet to come down to do new radiographs and foot work.  We're pretty certain that Maggie will need a nerve block in order to get the x-rays & any trimming done without an argument, and so she'll be the most comfortable. 

She's still on the jiaogulan at this point.  And while I'm hopeful that a local nerve block will be sufficient, I want to be prepared just in case a sedative is also required.  I don't think that will be the case, but I just don't know at this point. 

I recall reading that horses on jiaogulan may have an exaggerated reaction to sedatives/tranquilizers.  My question is...how long would Maggie need to be off of jiaogulan just in case she needs something beyond a nerve block on vet/farrier day?  Does jiaogulan stay in the system for an extended period of time and require a "weaning off" period, or is it the kind of supplement that I could withhold for just 24 hours prior to the appointment if necessary?



Tiffany in NC

Nov. 2014

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/TiffanyWoodward%20and%20Maggie/

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/540173897

 


Re: Availibility of ALCAR and Equi-Omega from Uckele

Donna Powell
 

 
Donna Powell


From: "esp_christensen@... [EquineCushings]"
To: EquineCushings@...
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 11:29 AM
Subject: [EquineCushings] Availibility of ALCAR and Equi-Omega from Uckele

Meelanie,
I get my Omega 3s from Triple Crown - OMEGA MAX  (golden flax seed, 25lbs for about $27.00 from local feed store)- and
ALCAR from MyBesthorse.com
Donna-Beaufort, SC
NRCPlus0213 NAT0413

I am having a hard time getting the above items from Uckele.  Is there another place I could buy that is approved for these supplements?
Uckele told me last week the Equi-Omega should be in within a couple of days.

Thank you,
Kind regards,
Melanie & Clyde, MN
January 2015




Re: Availibility of ALCAR and Equi-Omega from Uckele

Lorna Cane
 

Get ALCAR here,Melanie:



 

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

 






Availibility of ALCAR and Equi-Omega from Uckele

Melanie Christensen
 

Hello,


I am having a hard time getting the above items from Uckele.  Is there another place I could buy that is approved for these supplements?


Uckele told me last week the Equi-Omega should be in within a couple of days.


Thank you,

Kind regards,

Melanie & Clyde, MN

January 2015

https://xa.yimg.com/df/echistory8/_Clyde+Case+History-+Melanie+%26Clyde?token=9DkumuVp8V4SwE6DPaN9u9PBkRNoKcat4gP6IeBNINjAkGLgRJ--y5bmm_08BAgyvfD5S05rm1fhMYbUhr4S2sKXGbiCmB72KpKQyZe2nRUAjj6A_1NzUhohtLyCAHxyDIGlUwv8Vu8q1r46hYSSSXgMb3RAkgU_d1H0CerthQj1sA&type=download



Re: Diagnosing PPID

Maggie
 

Hi Barbara,

You're quite welcome! 

Sometimes getting them to eat what's good for them is a bit tricky.  First and foremost, I would stop putting her pergolide in her feed bucket.  That is something that you want to get the entire amount into her--guaranteed!  Some folks use a tiny piece of carrot with a hole drilled out, some use a grape, a prune, or a peanut in the shell.  Or a handful of a safe feed, hand fed with the pergolide hidden inside.  Sometimes it has to be crushed, mixed with a bit of water and syringed in.  Rather than the Purina mini feed which has 11% starch and 7% sugar, you could try a handful of Triple Crown Lite as a taste tempter.  With 4.8% sugar and 4.5% starch it does come in under the recommended 10%.  It is safe in small amounts--very small amounts for a 300 lb mini.  Also, have you looked at the "picky eaters checklist" for ideas?  Fourth file down in this folder:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/8%20Pulling%20it%20Together/ 

As far as the High Point supplement goes, I have to say "that depends."  I looked at that at one time, way back when and it contains manganese, which I did not need to supplement, based on my hay analysis.  There are some pretty good supplements available (California Trace, Arizona Copper Complete) but the only way to know what will work well for you is to have your hay tested, or it that's not possible, at the very least look at the regional hay analyses from the area in which your hay is grown, though this will only give you a general idea about the excesses and deficiencies in the hay grown in your area.  These IR and PPID horses really do best on a tightly balanced diet, which involves testing your hay and having one of our balancers work out a custom diet for you.  You can then choose to either have a custom mineral mix made or add the individual ingredients yourself.  I know it sounds like a lot of work, but really it's not.  Once you get over the initial idea of it, it just becomes routine!

Yes, there are sugar free Tums, but they contain sorbitol and I like to stay away from artificial sweeteners.  The regular ones only have about one gram of sugar.  Mine get one of those/day.  And believe me, Chancey will not put his head in his grazing muzzle before he gets his Tums!  Once he get it, the head goes right in!  They also love the peppermint Tic Tacs and get a couple of those/day.  Mostly, their "treats" are ODTB's, which they truly love and will come running in from the field for. 

As far as Lily having some grass goes, only you can make that decision.  All I can do is to give you information to make the best decision. Some IR horses do tolerate some limited grazing and some can't tolerate even a bite or two.  We do not recommend it.  Our goal is NO Laminits!!!  Ever!!!!  Allowing Lily to graze, especially in the face of her lab values, is very risky business.  If she were at my barn she would not be getting ANY grass--at all.  Do a search of the messages for "safest time to graze".  Here's one from Dr Kellon to get you started:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/134846   I know it's hard to wrap your head around!

Yes, testing often can get expensive.  That's why I sent you the link to Patti's system for monitoring symptoms.  I do think it would be of great benefit for you.  Once you get Lily's ACTH under control, close monitoring of symptoms and testing twice/year is recommended.  YES,  for sure, the ACTH can be effected by the seasonal rise!!  Most PPID horses need an increase in their dose of pergolide to get them through the seasonal rise.   Read more about the seasonal rise on our website here:  http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/cushing-s-disease/seasonal-rise 

You can post pictures in the "photos" section ECH8.  Looking forward to seeing them!

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC moderator/Primary Response
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/ 




Re: Another crosses the Rainbow Bridge

mywisky@...
 

Lisa,

My thoughts & prayers are with you & yours.

 

Darlene/Pa



---In EquineCushings@..., <glconley@...> wrote :

I'm sad to say that I had to farewell another horse yesterday.  Smokey was Miami's track companion.  A very challenging horse for me from the start, he was extremely headshy and a nervous type of horse but we managed for the most part.  I finally just accepted him as he was and loved him.  He taught me much over the ten years we were together.

He became permanently lame about 3 years ago.  He could walk about the paddock and trot occasionally, even gallop if an adrenalin rush hit him.  On Sunday he developed a large corneal ulcer.  I'd always known that if I ever had an eye problem, we'd be in strife.  I got the vet to him late Sunday and the options were quite limited given the extreme nature of his headshyness.  Heavily sedated, he still needed a nose twitch and even then, he was pulling away.  At that moment I realised it would be dangerous to me to try and treat it.  I cannot afford daily vet visits with sedation.  Removing the eye wouldn't be a good option for him because of his anxious nature.  I took a couple of hours to consider everything and made the very difficult decision to have Smokey laid to rest the next morning.  He also had very large melanomas on the inside of the corners of his mouth so together with his lameness concerns, it became the right thing to do.

I can only pray that my awful run has come to an end and that the two I have left remain sound and healthy and hopefully we can go back to enjoying having horses again.

RIP Miami and Smokey - both of you were very much loved and will both be greatly missed.

Lisa
Victoria, Australia


Re: Nervous that Poppy is at the edge of an Emergency: Help and advice for Poppy Seed and Susanna

Susanna Armbruster
 

Thanks very much, Lorna--
And after I sent the message, I realized I didn't delete everything below . . . doh! Sorry 'bout that.

Susanna
Red Hook, NY
March 2015https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Poppy%20Seed%20and%20Susanna/


Re: Flame's new bloodwork

lj friedman
 

Just wondering to myself.. when a horse has cushings and is on thyroid-L,  would it be prudent to rule out euthyroid sick syndrome?  I know my vet wanted to rx this product but Dr, Kellon said that euthyroid sick might be the cause,, so I decided to hold off and re test next month. lj friedman san diego nov 2014

ECHistory8

 



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