Date   

Re: thin soles on ppid ir horses

Deb Walker
 

On Fri, May 1, 2020 at 10:41 AM, diann kuzma wrote:One time i actually saw a farrier use butane torch to soften the sole so he could carve more out, to make a domb!  Can you imagine?  That poor horse.

That was done to Scotty previously...not anymore.

 
--
Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID
Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty
Photos:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619


Re: Hay Analysis/Balancing

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Christi,

If you use Uckele products I can do your balancing for no fee. Contact me at kellon "at" uckele.com.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


locked Re: Psyllium (was payllium)

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I am about to move this thread to Horsekeeping as well, although it was partially relevant because of potential interference with drug or nutrient absorption by psyllium.  However, this deserves comment too since I'm mentioned.
I had a long discussion with the sales contact person at Arenus. One of the questions I kept after him about was why they use  Assure Guard, and Assure Guard Gold in their colic insurance program, but the Regular Assure was not eligible. Why if it was not as good were they still offering it. Why were they recommending a daily use product while still producing a product whose instructions say use for seven days.
He said the following. Common sense would tell you that 4 oz. of psyllium is not going to somehow entrap and move 20 lbs of sand out of a horse's gut. It's not physically possible.  What psyllium does, based on their research is that it it's digestion in the gut produces VFA's , including butyrate, which nourishes the cells lining the gut, making the gut healthier. A healthier gut is able to move sand and dirt along and dispel it much better than a gut with slower motility.
This agrees with other's research and is something Dr. Kellon has written about in various publications. https://equinewellnessmagazine.com/feeding-horses-gut-microbiome/F
For one thing, the production of butyrate from psyllium is minimal. It's major fermentation product is acetate.  Simply not true that "healthy guts", whatever that means, will move more psyllium. Gut motility is a smooth muscle phenomenon, independent of epithelial cell health. Butyrate doesn't improve motility. If they have actual research that shows otherwise, I'd like to see it.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


locked Re: Chronic pain

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

This needs to be moved to Horsekeeping.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


locked Re: assure gold

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

LJ,

This discussion belongs on Horsekeeping.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


locked assure gold

LJ Friedman
 

I spoke with the company. It’s fed daily at four dollars a day. They do have a $10,000 colic  guarantee.   ,?

would I even consider a colic surgery for 31-year-old horse  like Jesse? I’m thinking not? )?They say that the product has probiotics and prebiotic’s so I’m thinking that I could illuminate Forco???Anyone have any thoughts on  _•assure  gold,  as I do need a sand  riddingvproduct to add to my regimen because I moved to a facility with sand
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Psyllium (was payllium)

gypsylassie
 

Hi Deborah, I feed 4 hay meals/day spaced out regularly, with the largest hay amount at Chappie's "late night" feeding.   I also give him a starter course of 1/2 lb wetted and fluffed ODTBC before each hay meal.   One of those bucket meals includes his supps, and all get some loose salt.   The last bucket includes some r/s/r beet pulp mixed into the ODTBCs.   I put his 7 day  course of pysllium into one of the bucket meals that doesn't have his supps and I make that meal wetter.    Yes, he lives at home and I've been at home for years now and have the time to do all these meals.  😊
Laura K Chappie & Beau over the bridge
2011 N IL


Re: Psyllium (was payllium)

Deborah Ide
 

Tthank you for the responses. I do appreciate them. I completely understand that psyllium may interfere with absorption of nutrients but the question is how to feed it otherwise? What do you all do and how do you get your horses to eat it? Do you feed a second small feeding of cubes with psyllium mixed in, in addition to the horse's regular ration or what? Trying to figure this out...


--
Deborah
November 2012
Middle Tennessee
Case History: https:/ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deborah%20and%20Tara


Re: Very high insulin - Need help, please

Maxine McArthur
 

Hi Cass
Reading your case history, I’m not clear whether she is getting any formal exercise or not. At one point you were hand walking her I think? Exercise is my go-to for addressing raised insulin, but of course this is not an option in some cases. 

--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


locked Re: Psyllium (was payllium)

 

My vet has read the research Arenus cites and says she believes it is worthwhile.  She is not normally one to fall for supplements, but she always recommends this.

--
Gail Russell 8/30/2008

 

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Gail%20and%20Brother%20-%20Odin%20-%20Decaffe%20%20-Gunthar .


Re: High insulin and glucose

 

Tara, my iPad has Pages, and Word because I installed it.  The newer iPads come with Pages installed, I think, but you can install Pages on older ones.  If you have a laptop to use, you might prefer that.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


locked Re: Psyllium (was payllium)

celestinefarm
 

I am currently feeding Assure Guard Gold psyllium and probiotic combo by Arenus to all three of my horses daily. https://arenus.com/assure-guard-gold/


I had used Assure and Assure Plus in the past and liked it, decided to try several other brands due to cost and didn't like them. After I lost a mare to a severe twist last year to which neither I nor the vet could explain, I went back to researching psyillum use. 

I had a long discussion with the sales contact person at Arenus. One of the questions I kept after him about was why they use  Assure Guard, and Assure Guard Gold in their colic insurance program, but the Regular Assure was not eligible. Why if it was not as good were they still offering it. Why were they recommending a daily use product while still producing a product whose instructions say use for seven days.
He said the following. Common sense would tell you that 4 oz. of psyllium is not going to somehow entrap and move 20 lbs of sand out of a horse's gut. It's not physically possible.  What psyllium does, based on their research is that it it's digestion in the gut produces VFA's , including butyrate, which nourishes the cells lining the gut, making the gut healthier. A healthier gut is able to move sand and dirt along and dispel it much better than a gut with slower motility.
This agrees with other's research and is something Dr. Kellon has written about in various publications. https://equinewellnessmagazine.com/feeding-horses-gut-microbiome/


He said they still produce the seven day product because they know there are those individuals who can't afford the daily and they felt providing a high quality product to be used for seven days was better than discontinuing it (They don't want to lose those customers) . There is benefit in their opinion  to providing gut improvement one week out of the month and so why lose that.

The seven day a month rationale was proposed by a researcher in a presentation years ago and it was picked up and run with.   According to Arenus, it's never been researched to prove or disprove which is why it lives on. It's why they continue to offer a seven day a week product.  https://arenus.com/blog/psyllium-debunking-the-myths/

Here is  research regarding psyllium blocking absorption of vitamins and minerals. It's conclusion was that magnesium was unaffected and calcium was lowered in urine and stool , but unaffected in the gut.  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2681046/



I  like my horses condition with the Arenus Guard Gold. It is horribly expensive, but I'm not going to discontinue it as long as I can afford.it. 

I have zero affiliation with the company. I don't even remember the discount code that is used by Michigan State for Arenus products, LOL.
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Re: Hay Analysis/Balancing

Christi Lyon
 

Thanks Lavinia.  Thought about that. The hay I have always used comes from Michigan and this is from Idaho. I used Equi-VM and added Phosphorous, Magnesium, vit e and biotin. The calcium of this hay is about half of the other so I was thinking of dropping the phosphorous. The copper and zinc is higher though so do t know if Equi-VM would be overload:/   Since I was only dealing with this once a year I basically have to relearn the ratios every time! My brain is getting too old for this. The digestible energy is only .85. Would that be considered “poor quality”? I know there are other factors. 
--
Christi Lyon
Feb 2017
Aiken,SC
Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Christi%20and%20Wentworth .

Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8510


Re: High insulin and glucose - CH Troubleshooting

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Tara,

Ok, the main thing is to not be trying to edit the PDF which is a read only format.  You should hopefully have the original word document saved somewhere and be able to update that.  The usual process is to save the Word document on your device, save or print it to PDF and then upload the PDF to the website but let us know where you get stuck and we'll go from there.




Re: High insulin and glucose

Tara Cantle
 

I’m on my iPad which I don’t think has word or pages. I’m going to try on a laptop next
--
Tara and Poser
UK, November 2018
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=82565


locked Re: Psyllium (was payllium)

ferne fedeli
 

I have been feeding Sand Rid pellets with my equines regular supplements/ODTB, etc. for years, not realizing it could cause any problems.  Is it really a big issue, if I only feed it 5 days a month?
--

Ferne Fedeli  Magic & Jack   2007

No. California
Case History

 

 


Re: High insulin and glucose

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Tara,

Are you working on a Word/Pages Document?  If so, have you've clicked the 'enable editing' button at the top (if in Word, I don't know if Pages has something similar)?  That's the simplest explanation for there being an issue but if you can let us know what device you're on and the file format we'll be able to better help you.




Re: Psyllium (was payllium)

Michele Einarson
 

We feed psyllium to capture and remove sand from the horses gut.  Therefore, it makes sense that it will also capture and remove any supplements fed with the psyllium.
--
Michele & Mosey IR, Feb 2019
Reno, NV, USA
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Michele%20and%20Mosey
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=88791


Re: Cetyl M Complete and IR

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Arthritis and stiffness of the hocks and his left front ringbone.
--
Nancy and Vinnie
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855


Re: Weight loss need higher dose?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Bobbi,

No, weight loss may just be that she is using more calories than she is taking in. For many horses, that's a good thing. Yes, blood work is the only sure way to know where things stand.

As her exercise level has been increasing (because her foot comfort has increased - YAY!!), she is definitely utilizing more calories. Sounds like otherwise, there is no indication her ACTH levels aren't controlled and this is the time of year when they wouldn't be naturally rising. If she is too thin now, you can increase the amount of safe feed she is getting to match her increased work.

If her BCS is 4.5 to 5, she is fine. Please do add a current picture if you'd like some "eyes" on it.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR

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