Date   

Re: Low Sugar Hay in Oregon

Ronelle
 

There are a number of farmers in the Bend/Madras/Prineville area that sell the hay we need for our horses.  Check out Hayfinder.org for growers in Central and Eastern Oregon, there's also a Facebook group- Central Oregon Hay Growers, and may be other Facebook groups for hay farmers in the valley and elsewhere in the state.  Depending on where you are, I'd even check in Washington state.  
--
Ronelle and Yoyo
2015 Bend, Or, US


Re: replacing Phos-4 with monosodium phosphate

 

It looks like wizardry, but this is all you need to do... Move the decimal over to the left two spaces. Ex: 14.0%= 0.140

You can express that as:
  1. X grams of elemental mineral per 1 gram weight of product (appropriate for major minerals that are dosed in grams/day) or
  2. X milligrams of elemental mineral per 1 gram (weight) of product (1000 milligrams = 1 gram), for trace minerals that are dosed in milligrams/day
No matter how you slice it, it works. For example:

Magnesium Oxide 56% = 0.560 grams of elemental magnesium in 1 gram (weight) of magnesium oxide.
Poly copper 12.5% = 0.125 grams of elemental copper in 1 gram (weight) of Poly Copper. Since trace minerals are dosed in milligrams/day, it's more appropriate to say, "125 milligrams of copper in a gram (weight) of Poly Copper." 

It would be ridiculously simple if we were taught the metric system when we were young, but NOOooooo.... Hey - you're in Canada! Get with it girl! :-) 
--

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)

Director and Research Advisor, ECIR Group Inc.

Missouri, USA, 2005

https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=3-I7UI0AAAAJ 

 


Re: pentosan for ppid horses

Frances C.
 

No, not had anything from Ukraine but have had stuff sent from Canada as from "racehorsemeds.com" This site is down. I thought they also had something going in the USA. Have been purchasing from them for years. Most recent, about 4 weeks ago, was an offer of PPE supplies which I forwarded to my vets. who seemed to be in short supply.
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Syndiego is PPID

Cindy Lawbaugh
 

I first re-introduced myself in December, and started the case history on Syndiego.   He was tested on March 9, and confirmed PPID, which just confirms my suspicions.       I am waiting to receive my Prascend order from the pharmacy.   My vet has recommended starting him on 1mg per day, but I found the recommendation for starting at .25 and incrementally increasing.   Our plan is to retest late June.

If anyone has time to take a look at the labor results I posted in Syndiego Case file, I would welcome any comments. 

Thank you
--
Cindy
N.Illinois
Dec 2019

Syndiego Case History Folder https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cindy%20and%20Syndiego
Syndiego Photo Album            https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=236429


Re: replacing Phos-4 with monosodium phosphate

Bonnie
 

Thank you for replying so quickly, Kathleen. I am completely stumped by the math to get to the required amount of monosodium phosphate needed to equal the elemental phosphorus that was provided by the daily 28 grams of Phos-4. Can't find my printout of the wonderful step by step instructions from the files. Sorry to be a pain in...somewhere...
--
Bonnie and Lad
North Ontario
Dec 2008
 


administering Invokana

Kim Rice <kimberztaz@...>
 

Hi,  How do you administer Invokana?  Does it dissolve in water easily?
--
Kim R, Lafayette, CA  2019
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kim%20and%20Shomee


Re: replacing Phos-4 with monosodium phosphate

 

Phos-4 is 14% elemental phosphorus. Therefore, 1 gram (weight) of Phos-4 would yield 0.14 grams (140 milligrams) of elemental phosphorus

Monosodium Phosphate is 26% elemental phosphorus. Therefore, 1 gram (weight) of Monosodium phosphate would yield 0.26 grams (260 milligrams) of elemental phosphorus.
--

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)

Director and Research Advisor, ECIR Group Inc.

Missouri, USA, 2005

https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=3-I7UI0AAAAJ 

 


Re: Low Sugar Hay in Oregon

 

One thing I want to be clear is that, with respect to feeding horses with hyperinsulinemia from metabolic disorders/disease, we (We=ECIR) don't use the metric NSC. NSC is inflated by the fructan content. Because fructan is not digestible, can only be fermented by gut bacteria, is classified as a "prebiotic fiber," it does not play a significant role in the generation of a glycemic or insulinemic response. This isn't a controversy in human nutrition, yet persists ad nauseum in the equine world.

In humans, fructans have long been recognized as dietary fiber that can promote healthy body weight, improve glycemia and insulin sensitivity. In horses,sudden exposure to a high fructan pasture might trigger a gut upset, leading to diarrhea, but the only documented case of laminitis induced by fructan has been in controlled experiments - never in the natural setting. To mimic the experimental condition, where the lowest dose of inulin fructan was given (37.5%), let's extrapolate that to NSC in pasture or hay: Estimated fructan of 37.5% +  ESC of 7% + starch of 0.6% - the NSC would be 45.1%. Has anyone seen a report of pasture fructan of 37.5%? I haven't, in the literature I've reviewed, but I could have missed something. I feel very certain that you will never find hay with 45.1% NSC, of which 37.5% is fructan. 

When laminitis occurs on pasture, the culprit is sugar/starch leading to hyperinsulinemia, resulting in insulin-induced laminitis. 
--

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)

Director and Research Advisor, ECIR Group Inc.

Missouri, USA, 2005

https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=3-I7UI0AAAAJ 

 


Re: Low Sugar Hay in Oregon

Julie Allen
 


replacing Phos-4 with monosodium phosphate

Bonnie
 

I have run out of phos-4 but have monosodium phosphate on hand. What amount of this equals one gram of Phos-4?
--
Bonnie and Lad
North Ontario
Dec 2008
 


Re: Low Sugar Hay in Oregon

 

Dr. Kellon answered your question. It is confusing, I'll admit, because the assays are not perfect. The WSC contains all fructans (long and short-chain) and simple sugars. ESC is "mostly" simple sugar but can contain some short-chain fructan. It's not a perfect measure, but we can estimate the fructan content by subtracting ESC from WSC. In the table below, are the data for the Oregon samples. If you add the estimated fructan (EstFructan), ESC and starch, you'll get the NSC. Interestingly for this dataset, the estimated fructan has been decreasing over the years we've been testing but the ESC and starch have remained fairly constant.

  2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019
EstFructan 7.3 8.1 5.7 5.8 6.1 6.1 5.4 5.1 4.4
ESC 6.9 7.2 6.9 6.9 6.2 6.9 6.6 6.4 7.0
Starch 0.7 0.5 0.5 0.7 0.5 0.6 0.5 0.5 0.6
NSC 14.9 15.8 13.1 13.4 12.8 13.6 12.5 12 12



--

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)

Director and Research Advisor, ECIR Group Inc.

Missouri, USA, 2005

https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=3-I7UI0AAAAJ 

 


Re: pentosan for ppid horses

LJ Friedman
 

i was thinking for majestic.  and thinking im?  I know they write IA, but I’ve always used IM for pentosan.  Will probably just get the pendants and only. Do you get the thought that this is the new corporation for Racehorse Meds? Moved to ukraine? Is anyone ordered from the Ukraine?
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Low Sugar Hay in Oregon

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Julie,

NSC = WSC + Starch. WSC = ESC + fructan.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: pentosan for ppid horses

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Intravenous glucosamine is risky with IR.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: pentosan for ppid horses

LJ Friedman
 


Re: pentosan for ppid horses

LJ Friedman
 

Looks like Racehorse Meds moved to the Ukraine and change the name? Anyone been using them in the Ukraine? horsemedcare.com.  
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


pentosan for ppid horses

LJ Friedman
 

ive used racehorse meds,Per Dr. kellon suggestion. I’m pretty sure they are closed for some problems they had. I never liked the adjuvant in Wedgewood as it caused problems. Any thoughts where else to get pentosan? Thanks
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Low Sugar Hay in Oregon

Julie Allen
 

Kathleen ,
hi ! Long time no talk 
can you please refresh my memory what is NSC ? I mean I know what it is .. but In reference to your comment nsc over ESC etc
my mind is not comprehending..

--
Julie 
Boring , Oregon 
2009
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/callie%20allen%20case%20history 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245704


Re: Cabergoline not available—emergency—Dr. Kellon

LJ Friedman
 

I just spoke with BET. They said their product should be arriving today or tomorrow, and they will start making / compounding the product and ship out middle of next week
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Low Sugar Hay in Oregon

Julie Allen
 

I buy all my hay out of silverton - from Steffen hay Inc . They test it and have all the tests available for me to go through and pick - my last hay timothy orchard mix was 
ESC 7.2
starch 1.5 
11% protein 
a little high in iron @ 142ppm but I just tweak my minerals to counter that .. 
I have found them to be very consistent with thier hay quality and being able to pick through already tested hay is a huge time saver .. 
--
Julie 
Boring , Oregon 
2009
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/callie%20allen%20case%20history 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245704

10941 - 10960 of 256868