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Re: Metformin-When do you figure out if enough is enough.
Kandace,
You're right: factors other than uncontrolled EMS could be elevating your horse's insulin: cold weather and pain. Pain can also make a horse fussy about eating supplements. That is a kind on inappetence. We have no way of knowing which factors are at work here. The only way I know to check the effect of metformin is an insulin blood test done with all the details described toward the bottom of this web page on Equine Metabolic Syndrome: https://www.ecirhorse.org/DDT+E-diagnosis.php I do agree that syringing metformin is no fun. Please you ask your vet the dose of metformin that was prescribed. There is no point to going through the aggravation of syringing unpleasant tasting medication twice daily if the dose isn't sufficient. Here is the information file on metformin, including dose. https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/4%20Insulin%20Resistance/Metformin/Metformin%2008.08.20%20FINAL.pdf If you choose to continue metformin, consider syringing metformin using wild cherry-flavored milk of magnesia as a carrier. My horse had no mouth ulcers at all after I used milk of magnesia. Details in this post: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/256392 -- Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012 ECIR Group Moderator Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder Cayuse Photos Diamond Photos
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Re: Flea on Invokana
Hi Jennifer don't despair, it took almost 8 days for Vinnie to move more comfortably and I changed to a different boot and then modified breakover by.raspong the underside of the boot to make him more comfortable. Vinnie is still in the process of healing and he still takes some mincy steps in hard surfaces of he hits the ground wrong. We were day 12 before I was 100% confident to wean off all rx pain meds.
-- Nancy and Vinnie and Summer Oakley, Ca Joined Nov 2018 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855 Summer https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104
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Re: Flea on Invokana
Jennifer Murphy
Socks, leggings, and a heat lamp in his stall. I've never been able to find a blanket to fit him properly.
-- Jennifer in NH 2020 CH - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Flea Photo album - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=251041&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
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Re: Mild laminitis after dental
Bobbie Day
Dang Joy
I’m sorry, this is why I have refused Desi’s dental work for the last two visits. Both dentists that come to my area sedate and use the power tools. It takes my other horses a week to bounce back so I just don’t dare take the chance with her. I cannot for the life of me find someone qualified that will use the hand tools. I wonder why they insist on the drills and speculums? Maybe because it’s faster? I don’t know, I feel bad she hasn’t had them done for awhile though. I hope Willie feels better soon. -- Bobbie and Desi NRC Plus March 2020 Utah, Nov 2018 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821
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Re: Overlapping supplements?
lamarleau@...
OMG for once it's canadian 😀 Does anybody have their horses on metformin and this supplement?
I tried to reduce metformin to once a day and his insuline went back up. Wonder if this could help. Thanks -- Francine & Magic in Quebec Nov 2020 Was a member 10 yrs ago with Shamy
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Re: Mad Barn - quality control
My vet was strongly recommending Insulinwise for Monster however, I stood my ground and said I was happy with the IR supplement from Mad Barn. When they gave me their datasheet I was unimpressed by their studies and findings promoting their product done at 30-60-90 days.
-- Trisha Bentley, AB, 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Monsters%20Case%20History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259610
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Re: Flea on Invokana
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Re: timothy versus coastal Bermuda for IR horse
Hi, Vicky,
I always feed coastal. I test all batches and my ESC and starch have always been below 10% ESC and starch combined. That doesn’t mean that all coastal is safe for EMS/PPID equines. As you already know, the only way you’ll know for sure is to test. -- Fran in Texas ECIR Board of Directors 7-2005 Ford, Tinker and Dancer Ford Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fran%20and%20Ford%20-Tinker/Ford Tinker Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fran%20and%20Ford%20-Tinker/Tinker Dancer Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fran%20and%20Ford%20-Tinker/Dancer%20Case%20History.pdf
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/1214900120
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Re: Overlapping supplements?
Valerie, it’s a relatively new product, developed by a group on Vancouver Island, BC, where they seem to have a high incidence of IR horses. If you search the messages, rather than the files, you will find more discussion.
-- Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response July 2012
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)
Martha and Logo
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Re: New member. Sore pony
The CR Pro Fibre Crunch was analyzed by Mad Barn and found to have WAY over the 10% cut off, with 16% starch! Definitely do not feed this to your mini. Better to feed the hay soaked. I have been giving 1/2 cup a day to my full size horse as a taste tempter, but dropped it to 1/4 cup once I saw the Mad Barn analysis and am considering dropping it altogether as it is not needed.
Turmeric is not recommended either. But without bloodwork you don't know how severe your mini's EMS is. This group really operates on Diagnosis first. You can make dietary and trim changes right away of course, but always keep in mind that without a diagnosis you don't know what you are dealing with and how severe it is. If PPID is part of this, too, you can make all the dietary changes you like but the disease is only controlled with medication so all your other efforts won't prevent disease progression and laminitis. Highly recommend getting baseline (non fasting) insulin, glucose and ACTH checked. -- Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album -- Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album
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Finding a source of jiaogulan
Hi!
Unfortunately and definitely, the website in england where I get jiaogulan is not able to send their products to EU by the moment. Does anyone know where to find jiaogulan of a good potency that sends to Spain? I believe the human capsules are not of a good potency and are more expensive. Any ideas? Thank you. -- María Durán Navarro Dec 2017 Madrid (Spain) Plutón´s Case History Plutón´s Photo Album _._,_._,_
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Flea on Invokana
Jennifer Murphy
Flea started Invokana on Monday. My vet drew blood to get insulin, ACTH, and do a CBC profile before his first dose. The insulin came back at 270, I don't have the other results just yet. She returned 24 hours later and drew blood again for just insulin, and again yesterday. She'll be back on Tuesday for a 1 week blood draw, then it will probably go to 2 weeks, then a month. Today I was very disheartened to find Flea barely able to walk again. Temperatures dipped into the low teens last night, and he's very sensitive to the cold these days. I'm disappointed because everyone else seems to have garnered miracles within days, and I'm not seeing an ounce of relief yet. I'm not going to give up; he's only had 4 doses. I'm looking forward to the Tuesday blood draw to see if there is any difference.
My farrier will be here tomorrow to trim and I will get hoof pictures to add to my album, as well. -- Jennifer in NH 2020 CH - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Flea Photo album - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=251041&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
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Re: Overlapping supplements?
celestinefarm
Valerie, It's this. I don't know anything about it other than it appears to have cinnamon in it.
-- G's Organic Solution Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary Saline, MI 2003 Tipperary Case History
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Re: Overlapping supplements?
valerie puryear
What is WIRX? I checked the files but didn't come up with an answer.
-- Valerie and Matera Aug 2018 Athens, GA, USA Case History Photo Album Ω
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Mild laminitis after dental
Welp. Willie was doing *fantastic* for about 3 months. Everything has been dialed in, diet is tight, and he's been getting lots of walk abouts and turn outs. Happy, sound pony. I planned on starting light riding after his dental.
He had his dental on Monday, 1/18, in the morning, and was mildly lame on all 4 by 3:30 pm that afternoon. Sedation used was "det 10mg + torb 5mg + ace 5mg IV" ,<--- from the vet notes I received. No heat in the hooves, but light pulse in the backs. I booted him on all four and dumped a big shavings pile in his paddock. I did not give him anything for pain besides his normal CBD that day. Game cam in his paddock shows him periodically standing in the shavings pile overnight (about every 2 hours, for 20 to 30 minutes each time) as well as sleeping in the pile. Sleeping in the pile for an hour or two is normal for him. He was still uncomfortable the next day (Tuesday the 19th) so I emailed my vet but he did not respond until yesterday AM and I couldn't go the barn again until the afternoon. Vet recommended Banamine, 500 lb dose (1/2 dose), 2x per day for 2 days. I did dose Willie yesterday evening but not this morning. And I only dosed him because I believe his jaw is sore from the speculum (he's got TMJ) and he did quid a few mouthfuls both previous nights. Because he is on CBD so I'm worried about using an additional NSAID on him. I also don't think Banamine will help his laminitis, is that correct? My questions are, what can I do additionally to help him to be comfortable? Is there anything I can do to help him recover more quickly? Should I go ahead and dose him w/ the Banamine when I go back this afternoon? Next dental I will follow my hoof care professional's advice (demand) to use a dentist who does not sedate and uses hand tools. (you can say I told you so Pamela). This morning he was much brighter than the past two mornings, and much more himself. He did eat, drink, poop and urinate normally this whole time. Case history is updated. -- Joy and Willie (PPID/IR) Nevada County, CA - 2019 Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie Willie's photo album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526
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Re: New Hay Analysis
I am hoping the premium comes back good too. Thanks so much Cass!!
-- Nancy and Vinnie and Summer Oakley, Ca Joined Nov 2018 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855 Summer https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104
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Re: Mad Barn - quality control
Another product that has to be acquired through vets is Insulinwise. For what reason??? Huh!
-- - Frances C. December 2017, Washington & California Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382
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Re: New point Jaini- brewer yeast and diamond v
Jaini, I
am curious about the addition of Diamond V. My mare "K" has ulcers and I have fed her this as probiotic for several years, until everything stopped with her IR. In trying to find out more of all the things I did feed her pre-illness I saw on Mad Barns feed analysis pages that it is very high in starch, but as it is fed in such small amounts I am unclear if it is a good or bad thing. Just prior (four days) to latest relapse to foot pain I had started to reintroduce feeds taken away as insulin numbers had come down substantially in the few months. I had re-introduced Diamond V (I think it was original XP from the pictures of packaging) at 1/4 of a 25cc scoop, which is 1/8th apprx. of recommended feeding rate as well as a few other things, all at extremely reduced amounts and I am still wondering if this had anything to do with the relapse. I also want to know I can give her for the ulcer and diarrhea problems we have battled for years. If there is someone better to direct this to please let me know and I can share full list of supplents she was receiving for the GI specifics. Thnak you -- Kandace K Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259062
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Metformin-When do you figure out if enough is enough.
Thanks in advance for help,
While metformin is relatively inexpensive, it is most definately a pain to administer and hard on my horse. If it causes mouth ulcers what is it doing to her stomach. I do not own a barn coat not covered with spit out. My question is about how long to keep up administering it. On Dec 10, insulin was 46.22 and then horse seemed to have another laminitis session. In clinic started on Metformin in Clinic and is now at end of week three. She was tested at end of week two, just prior to release back to me and results back up to about 65 (waiting for papers). Since she was just into the Nanric ultimates and still obviously sore and uncomfortable, I would think that this number is scewed too high. Vet recommends keeping her on it, but I see a very unhappy horse. Much of what I find on topic is a few weeks improvement should be seen then discontinue it. She will not eat BP with the new minerals tho she is very happy with her hay, so it isn't an inappetence. As life for her is quite miserable as it is, it would be great to be able to take away one more discomfort for her. -- Kandace K Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259062
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Re: Monster - 5-year-old Morab gelding
Hi, Trisha.
Slow and steady weight loss is the target. The estimated weight of hay for weight loss doesn't take into account cold Alberta winters with average daytime temperatures well below freezing at 27℉, lows near 10℉ and wind chill factor. Keep an eye on Monster's body condition and adjust hay weight as needed for low winter temperatures. Weigh all hay so you know how much you're feeding. When you contact the hay balancer, be sure to mention your average January-February temperatures and try to get a general idea of an appropriate hay increase for cold weather. This is as much art as science with an overweight horse. Your hay analyses will be helpful. I suggest you take good body condition shots as described in the Wiki and add them to your Photo Album. https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/1472 Then you can track body condition changes and weight loss. -- Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012 ECIR Group Moderator Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder Cayuse Photos Diamond Photos
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