Date   

Re: Use of Palmitoylethanolamide(PEA) for pain management

Frances C.
 

Oh Glory Be - thanks for the update Jeanne. Such welcome good news. Am anticipating trying PEA in the New Year
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Re: Help for laminitis

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Jeri,

Here are the links to your case history, and photo album.
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=258096

You can make them automatically attach to your signature.
Go here.....
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/editsub

Click on the boxes for web posting and email posting

     Use Signature For Web Posting
Use Signature For Email Posting

Go into the signature box near the bottom of the page. If your signature is already there,just add these 2 links to it,scroll down a bit more and hit SAVE.
If your signature has not already been typed into the box,do that,now.

Then you'll never have to think about your signature again.
--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Help for laminitis

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Jeri

At 1070 do you feel she's still overweight/just right or thin?  You can use plain beet pulp and rinse/soak/rinse it if you need a carrier for flax and vitamin E.  Have you read your welcome letter (https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/258516) and the diet information on the ECIR website? 

Do you have pictures of Roxie that you could post in your photo folder?  Being able to see her body and her feet will help us help you with her trim as well as diet recommendations.  For horses that have persistently high insulin in spite of diet changes some of our members have had success with using Metformin or Insulin to bring insulin down but there are considerations for both of those and they both would require a prescription from your vet. 

To update your signature:

1) Go to this link: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/editsub

2) Look at the bottom of that page for the window that has your name and join date

3) Add the links I shared earlier for your Case History and Photo Album. Adding a space after your link or hitting enter on your keyboard will turn it blue.

4) IMPORTANT: Scroll to the bottom and hit SAVE!




Re: Help for laminitis

Trektwojf@...
 


-- I thought I had photo linked with signature but I can’t seem to up date ha file.
Roxie is 19 and per tape weight check 1070 lbs.  we weigh hay 15 lbs per 24 hrs.  I did have Dumor shredded beet pulp but bag says it has molasses so I discontinued use.   Other then flax and hay what else would help lower insulin.   My farrier specializes in theraputic trims and shoes. He feels her feet are basically still sound and is making special composite shoes for her.
I don’t feel I will get much help from my vet as he has suggested putting her down based on her cushings and elevated insulin.  She recovered from laminitis two years ago and I feel I must do whatever to give her a chance again.  I understand she is not curable but hopefully manageable.  
Once again thank you.  Maybe a neighbor can help me get hay info to a balancer.


Jeri 
Durango CO
2020
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Lavinia is there ever a right time for corrective shoes?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Jeanne,

Agree there is significant bone loss/remodeling present. Really glad to hear she has been feeling more comfortable of late.

Has it been possible to lower her heels any and still have her actually stand down on them? That is one of the biggest issues at this point, as her frog will not expand if she doesn't use the back half of her foot. Is her frog in ground contact? In the 9/2020 sole shot, there has been a lot of frog trimmed away - that may also be contributing to her inability to stand on her heels as too much frog trimming will make the frog sensitive. If she can't stand down onto her heels then don't lower them further than she CAN stand on them. Lowering her heels may be something that needs to be done by removing slivers from the heels every week, rather than trying to drop them on a regular trim cycle. She may also benefit from rehab therapy to help her lengthen the muscles/tendons in that leg to allow for more heel weight bearing.

That there isn't any definition to the structures on the bottom of her foot is not surprising. Everything has melded in the foot's efforts to provide support in any way that it can. It does appear as if the medial side may be taller, or it may be that the bone loss and compromised hoof integrity on the lateral side is allowing the foot to tilt laterally, thereby compressing the bony column on the medial side.

A banana shoe doesn't make her stand on her heel (or any other part of her foot) - it allows the horse to choose where it is most comfortable and provides for easy breakover both fore and aft..

Sometimes, shoes are the best solution. Sometimes they make a bad situation worse. I don't think it is unreasonable to give it a try here. Just be ready to make changes if she tells you that it's not working for her.
Given how compromised her hoof capsule is, gluing rather than nailing seems like it would make more sense. Has a composite shoe, rather than steel, been considered? That might allow for more tailoring of the shoe to her specific needs.

With a shoe, you'll need to monitor the heel height closely to be sure it doesn't outgrow the trim and tip her even more forward onto the toe.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


The ECIR Group —THE RESEARCH 2020

Nancy C
 
Edited

Dear ECIR Group Members ~

We’ve found over the years that you love to hear about the research and studies that affect our equines. Here is a look at some of what the ECIR Group — including all of you — has been busy working on in 2020.

Iron Overload: Drs. Kellon and Gustafson reviewed the case histories provided by ECIR members and reported their findings in, “Possible Dysmetabolic Hyperferritinemia in Hyperinsulinemic Horses.” They concluded that there is potential for iron overload in hyperinsulinemic horses, a feature documented in other species, which should stimulate further study into the relationship between insulin and iron dysregulation in the horse. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6971364/

Reports on InsulinWise: As a public service by members for members, self-reported experiences, including repeated blood draws, found that using InsulinWise was generally not helpful for the majority of our members

Collecting Laboratory Data: ECIR Group Inc. supported blood work for approximately a dozen members to understand discrepancies between labs. Further exploration needed.

Eliminated General Leptin Testing Recommendation: An example of changing protocols based on scientific evidence. The ECIR group dropped leptin testing from the routine diagnostic protocol because it does not offer significant valuable information in most cases, compared to insulin and glucose alone.

Biotin Supplementation and Hormonal Assay: ECIR Group members were alerted to confounds of biotin supplementation on hormonal assays. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6007242/ The FDA has also issued several warnings. https://www.aacc.org/science-and-research/aacc-academy-guidance/biotin-interference-in-laboratory-tests

Fasting Insulin Guidelines and the Upper Limit of Normal Limits for Insulin: This published work supports the ECIR Group’s recommendations made since 2003: Olley RB, et al. Comparison of fasted basal insulin with the combined glucose-insulin test in horses and ponies with suspected insulin dysregulation. Vet J 2019 Oct;252:105351. doi: 10.1016/j.tvjl.2019.105351. Epub 2019 Aug 5. More background can be found on the ecirhorse website: https://www.ecirhorse.org/FastingInsulin-LabRefRanges.php

Continued Hay Database Development: ECIR members Jannalee Smithey and Kathleen Gustafson have continued to develop the Oregon Hay database, which now has over 250 samples. In addition, Dr. Gustafson has a database with hays from western Missouri and eastern Kansas and is also working to develop a Texas Bermuda database.

Development of Case Histories: The case history project is nearing completion. Kudos to Nancy Collins for her determined efforts. This will provide a searchable database to further our research mission and relies on the input of ECIR Group’s members.

Potential Collaboration: We are actively exploring avenues for collaborations with universities to explore the roots of PPID, EMS, and laminitis.

Collecting Data on Invokana with the Intent to Publish: Manuscript detailing case reports of response to Invokana will be submitted by the end of first quarter 2021.

As ECIR Group Director Fran has previously written, despite 2020 being a tough year for everyone, you can see that the ECIR Group does have a lot of good news to report.

Our eye is on the future and our goal is NO Laminitis!

We can do this. If you are in a position to help and are willing to make a donation to the ECIR Group, please go here and choose how you’d like to support this collective work. https://bit.ly/2J5xhKo

With gratitude,

Kathleen Gustafson, PhD (KFG in KCMO)
Director and Research Advisor, ECIR Group Inc.
Missouri, USA, 2005
https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=3-I7UI0AAAAJ
--
--
For Kathleen,
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 12-15, Harrisburg, PA


Re: Lavinia is there ever a right time for corrective shoes?

Brenda Gasch Mittelstadt
 

Jeanne. Just sending good vibrations to you and Glory. Best wishes and peace. 
--
-Brenda

September 2020, Dodgeville WI USA

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Brenda%20and%20Stormy


Re: Safe feed

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Janet,

I typed Triple Crown Lite into the Search box,above messages, and found this message from Sherry,last November.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/258003?p=,,,100,0,0,0::Created,,triple+crown+lite,100,2,0,78492902

It isn't considered safe for IR horses, but Sherry's message contains the link to our Safe Feeds folder, in our Files. There are more examples there.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Safe feed

Janet Schilling
 


--
Janet Schilling Mi 2020
Is Triple Crown Lite safe for IR and Cushing horses?


Re: IR and pregnancy

Maria Duran
 

Yes that´s planned too, she had started to take her for walks by hand and ridden, but she let her graze in a very short grass pasture thinking that that couldn´t harm her. Already explained that´s like eating small sugar cubes as sugar is more concentrated in the first 5 cm of the plant, so insulin spikes, more fat storage, more IR and a vicious circle.

She is now aware of the harm so is looking for a solution.

Thank you Sherry.
--
María Durán Navarro 
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain)

Plutón´s Case History
Plutón´s Photo Album
_._,_._,_


Re: Help for laminitis

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Jeri,

Deep breaths.  When you get a moment can you please add your links to your signature?  (Let us know if you need the directions on that again)


I'm not a hay expert but the analysis (in the picture album) looks like you should be ok as far as ESC+starch and not need to soak the hay unless Roxie is super sensitive.  You do need to make sure you're feeding her an appropriate amount for her weight which means weighing the hay and confirming what her current weight is as well as what her actual ideal weight is.

Since you have a hay analysis my suggestion would be to have a balancer look at it and balance your minerals to that rather than trying to use a commercial mix which may or may not actually balance your hay. You can find the balancer list in the files here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing/HAY%20BALANCING-1.pdf

As far as the Equipride - assuming this is the product: https://agapedistributors.net/equipride/ it's above our recommended fat level and is another mineral product. Again, I would err on the side of balancing to your hay rather than adding in another commercial mix that may or may not balance the hay - particularly as if you're feeding it on top of the Ranchway you could be overloading some minerals.

Flax - as per the diet listed on the website (https://www.ecirhorse.com/DDT+E-diet.php) we recommend 3oz of flax a day.  You can do a search on "flax" in the archives but there are probably cheaper options that don't have extra calcium in them out there.

Cold weather laminitis can be an issue with some horses but you may not know it will be an issue until it happens.




Re: Help for laminitis

Trektwojf@...
 

I have tried to put additional photos in album but don’t know how successful I was.  Also tried to update case history but had no luck .  Sorry 
--
Jeri 
Durango CO
2020
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: How Do I Know-Winter blanketing/leg wrapping

Kandace Krause
 

Judy, thank you, and like you I am not certain about winter laminitis, K has one hoof with a rotation in coffin bone, so I am going to just watch for signs of pain in other feet or if we get some severe cold I will blanket as I have in the past.  She is not a senior so I don't think blanketing most of the time is of any help.
Kandace
--
Kandace K Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K


Re: How Do I Know-Winter blanketing/leg wrapping

Kandace Krause
 

Thank you Nancy,
I have bookmarked the link as there is a ton of things to read there.  I don't think I am dealing with winter laminitis, I have xrays of foundered hoof, one only, so will watch for signs of pain in other feet.  Other than that I will blanket  and or leg wrap if it appears to be needed.
Kandace
--
Kandace K Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K


Re: Help for laminitis

Trektwojf@...
 

I am overwhelmed with all and not being a computer person and a senior even more frustrated..  I have a new hay analysis and questions on feeding , supplements etc. 
1. is Equipride safe for roxie. I contacted manufacturer and they claim yes. Will try and get pic of what they sent
2. Is the mineral supplement ok. Ranchway 12-12-12/cu mineral coarse   How much / day
3. Nutra flax.  How much per day?
4 Does cold weather increase laminitis. We live at 7500 feet elevation in southwest colorado.
5. Any help with meds ?   
6. Should I be blanketing  

will try to get new hay analysis posted. 


--
Jeri 
Durango CO
2020
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Teff pellets?

Janet Gerl
 

Is it safe to feed Standlee Teff pellets as part of the Emergency Diet?
I have a horse in crisis and this would be a good option for carrying magnesium & flax.
--
Janet Gerl


Re: IR and pregnancy

Sherry Morse
 

Just my 2.5 cents - it's much harder to get an overweight mare pregnant so if the owner is planning on breeding in April she doesn't have a whole lot of time to get the weight off.  Exercise in addition to the diet would be helpful.




Re: suggestions in getting insulin down

Cheryl Oickle
 

I increased Jewels prascend from 1 to 2mg after her insulin rose over 100! ,although ACTH in late Aug was in the ball park. Nothing in diet ir exercise had changed in over a year but the insidious rise over the year was a concern.  I was skeptical with the prascend increase, waited 2 months and her insulin dropped to 2 points above high normal.   Bear with it. These horses are a real challenge

--
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018
Port Alberni BC Canada
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=81063


Re: IR and pregnancy

Maria Duran
 

Thank you Nancy,

Yes her trim was not attended but she has good strong hooves with very well developed frogs in my opinion.. The mare is overweight BCS 8 and insulin was 22 uU/ml, the owner is planning to get her pregnant in spring no matter what, so we are working to take her weight down as soon as possible, she looks like a stallion. Trim is going to be done and the owner is very willing to be very careful with diet.

Hope it all goes well. Hays here are very low in protein and finding a safe source is difficult and expensive. I guess we will need to add whey protein or pea protein when the moment arrives.

Thank you very much.

--
María Durán Navarro 
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain)

Plutón´s Case History
Plutón´s Photo Album
_._,_._,_


Lavinia is there ever a right time for corrective shoes?

Jeanne Q
 

I have just given my farrier the go ahead on corrective metal shoes with pads for Glory's fronts.  I am really torn and am not sure this is the right move.  I have been dealing with her rotation and serious bone loss for over a year now.  To be honest I am surprised that she is still with us.  If you look at the latest rads you will see the RF P3 is basically gone.  However, this little mare has not once given up and only shows signs of increased zest for life.  I started her on PEA 3 weeks ago and she is walking so much freer in the last couple of days and I am encouraged.  The shoeing is scheduled for this Thursday.  My farrier has been researching trying to find an option to get her more comfortable.  The way her RF is growing out it does not allow for the frog to work properly.  There is no frog, groove, sole definition other than the 2 planes from trimming the heel and leaving sole.  Basically, what the farrier has in mind is to widen out the heel some to give the frog space to get the blood flowing.  A backwards shoe, rockered on the heel, open in front.  Banana shaped to keep her rocked back on heel.  Dental impression material and a thin pad in between.  He plans to use these super thin wire nails to cause the least trauma. 

I just kind of feel like we are at the "hail mary" point with Glory and am willing to try just about anything.  I have read everything there is to read and agree that barefoot is best in almost every laminitis case.  Glory has been barefoot through all of this and, granted, the trim was hardly ever perfect(thats a whole other story) P3 continued to rotate and lose bone. Is there a point that shoes might make sense?  Any thoughts would be appreciated!  I didnt sleep much last night for thinking about it. 


--
Jeanne Q MN 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jeanne%20&%20Glory
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=241360

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