What is Chasteberry and what does it do?
My older Mare is not doing really well and all the vet wants to do is
put her down. My girl is not inclined to agree with the vet.

Thanks for input!!

Sue

What is Chasteberry and what does it do?
My older Mare is not doing really well and all the vet wants to do is
put her down. My girl is not inclined to agree with the vet.

Hi Sue ~

Welcome to the EC group. Please take a few minutes and fill out a case
history on your mare at http://www.sportshorses.com/caseform.htm so we
know more about your mare.

We have lots of old campaigners here that vets have given up on -
thankfully we also have the guidance of Dr. Kellon who won't give up
until a horse says its time.

Chasteberry is an herb (also known as Vitex) that may help alleviate
some of the symptoms of Cushing's disease, but most horses eventually
need the medication "pergolide" to control their symptoms.

To start, after completing your case history (and posting the url),
read the files that were sent to you when you joined. (If you have any
trouble opening them, go to the files at
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files and concentrate
on the folders #1 and #6).

There is lots of information here - but taking it a step at a time will
help keep it from being too overwhelming.

Patti K
Vail AZ

Thanks Patti -
I did fill out the case history as I know it.? The vet has only done a blood test to check liver/kidney white count and potassium levels.? He did not test for Cushings nor did he check for Insulin Resistance.? I asked him if it was possible she has Cushings since her son had it and did not respond to pergolide or anything else.? (I thought it was possible for Cushings to be genetic).? He just flat said no.? He told me the Glucose test cost over $200 and didn't do one.
I've been searching websites looking for information with a friends help.? I haven't called that particular vet back as I don't want to hear yet again to just put her down.?
Right now she has good days and bad days.? I notice that if her stomach is ok her feet get better - I haven't been able to keep her stomach well enough to get her feet much better.

Thanks all for any help with this one!!

Sue

I asked him if it was possible she has Cushings since her son had it

and did not respond to pergolide or anything else.? (I thought it was
possible for Cushings to be genetic).? He just flat said no.? He told
me the Glucose test cost over $200 and didn't do one.

I've been searching websites looking for information with a friends

help.? I haven't called that particular vet back as I don't want to
hear yet again to just put her down.?

Hi Sue ~
Found your case history (include this url in your future posts : )
http://www.sportshorses.com/cases/JGHIRETIRE.Kaisha.htm

Diagnosis -
What you describe in the case history "looks" like Insulin Resistance.
TB's don't normally "just" get IR, but will have it as an effect of
Cushing's. The test for IR is $30 at Cornell (insulin and glucose
from the same draw) and these can also be run at the commercial labs.
The test for Cushing's is a single draw "endogenous" ACTH - about $40
at Cornell or MSU (and they can also run the insulin and glucose). It
requires special handling which is difficult for some field vets but
you can often do some of the legwork yourself (running it into the
clinic for spinning, taking care of the freezing/overnight shipping)
if you have a cooperative vet. Shipping can run $20-40, plus the vet
charge for the blood draw.

Diet -
Meanwhile, I would put her on the emergency diet a.s.a.p. (see the
files at
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files,
under "nutritional needs" in folder #1. No oats, no grass. Beet pulp
if she needs more calories.
If she's getting up to eat, no bute.
Have your hay analyzed (see folder #7 in the files), then you can
mineral balance and address any other diet needs.

Trim - needs to have a good trim to keep coffin bone ground parallel,
probably boots and pads. (I'm not a "hoof" person - if you need help
on how she should be trimmed, just ask, and check the files
under "hoof care".)
It's going to take 6-8months or more for her to grow a new hoof
capsule - she'll need meticulous hoof care during that time (frequent
trimming, boots/other comfort measures). But laminitis and founder is
no longer a "death sentence" - although it will take determination
and commitment on your part to get her sound again and keep her that
way. But you'll also have lots of help here.

Patti K
Vail AZ

In a message dated 11/1/2007 2:27:57 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
DesertHorses@... writes:

_http://www.sportshohttp://wwhttp://www.sporthttp://www._
(http://www.sportshorses.com/cases/JGHIRETIRE.Kaisha.htm)



No oats?? Expletive deleted - that was another thing I was told to feed her
- just plain oats!! With grass hay - no more oats. OUCH I got Beet pulp
and will feed her that.

Thanks for the heads up!!



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In a message dated 11/1/2007 7:42:20 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
ssu@... writes:

think you should find another,
cheaper vet.


I think I need to find another vet period!!!!!



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Posted by: "JGHIRETIRE@..." <mailto:JGHIRETIRE@...?Subject=
Re%3A%20Chasteberry> JGHIRETIRE@...
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/jghiretire> jghiretire

Thu Nov 1, 2007 1:46 pm (PST)
He did not test for Cushings nor did he check for Insulin
Resistance....He told me the Glucose test cost over $200 and didn't
do one.

Sue,
That price is pretty steep. I had a whole slew of tests, and
they came to just a bit more. I think you should find another,
cheaper vet. I think, if you search past messages for the costs of
tests, some of us posted how much we paid at the time. I think I did.
That would be last spring -- May? June?
--

Sandy Su
ssu@...

JGHIRETIRE@... wrote:
He just flat said no.? He told me the Glucose test cost over $200 and
didn't do one.

Don't throw the vet out yet. He's likely talking about

Euglycaemic hyperinsulinaemic clamp technique" or the "insulin-
modified frequently sampled intravenous glucose tolerance test" and
yes, it would be costly & time consuming too. But it's a valid test
that he obviously has atleast some level of awareness or knowledge of.
Can you get an insulin test atleast to start?

Amberlee

In a message dated 11/1/2007 10:25:46 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
fivepineranch@... writes:




JGHIRETIRE@.JGHIRETIR
He just flat said no.? He told me the Glucose test cost over $200 and
didn't do one.

Don't throw the vet out yet. He's likely talking about

Euglycaemic hyperinsulinaemic clamp technique" or the "insulin-
modified frequently sampled intravenous glucose tolerance test" and
yes, it would be costly & time consuming too. But it's a valid test
that he obviously has atleast some level of awareness or knowledge of.
Can you get an insulin test atleast to start?







I don't really see why I couldn't - even if I have to get another vet - I
feel that when I talk to him I'm being horrible for not just putting her down -
it's sort of turned me off wanting to even talk to him.

Thanks

Sue



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In a message dated 11/2/2007 5:49:33 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rita@bg-sc.
com writes:




Make sure that you let him know it's NOT the glucose tolerance test (or
glucose challenge as some of the old school know it as). You just need
the glucose value from the standard chemistry panel!! :)
More might understand that. It shouldn't be more than $20 to run that
one test out of a chemistry panel.
They can still do the insulin from the same blood draw as well, but make
sure you have it in the correct tube for collection, etc.

good luck!
Rita
Indiana






Thanks Rita - that's certainly worth a shot!!

Sue
Washington



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Make sure that you let him know it's NOT the glucose tolerance test (or
glucose challenge as some of the old school know it as). You just need
the glucose value from the standard chemistry panel!! :)
More might understand that. It shouldn't be more than $20 to run that
one test out of a chemistry panel.
They can still do the insulin from the same blood draw as well, but make
sure you have it in the correct tube for collection, etc.

good luck!
Rita
Indiana

JGHIRETIRE@... wrote:
He just flat said no.? He told me the Glucose test cost over $200 and
didn't do one.