ADM hay replacer


valdavoli <STOMPERX@...>
 

is anyone familiar with this?
val


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "valdavoli" <STOMPERX@...> wrote:

is anyone familiar with this?
Details are here:

http://www.admani.com/AllianceEquine/ForageFirstHayReplacer.htm

It's probably low S/S. Judging from the fiber and protein level, the
soy hulls are probably the major ingredient. Looks promising. I've
mailed them asking for more details, i.e. ESC, starch, iron, manganese,
magnesium.

Eleanor


STOMPERX@...
 

Thank you Eleanor!!!

i did see this in the cushing/ ir files under safe feeds.? wanted to double check.? i have been in contact with company nutritionist, but she was not sure of many things.? i am to call her back as well.? she said the starch was 6-7%, but that was only info she could give.

i would be excited if these are good:? i am having trouble finding acceptable feeds here.

val

-----Original Message-----
From: Eleanor Kellon, VMD <drkellon@...>
To: EquineCushings@...
Sent: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 6:56 am
Subject: [EquineCushings] Re: ADM hay replacer






--- In EquineCushings@..., "valdavoli" <STOMPERX@...> wrote:

is anyone familiar with this?
Details are here:

http://www.admani.com/AllianceEquine/ForageFirstHayReplacer.htm

It's probably low S/S. Judging from the fiber and protein level, the
soy hulls are probably the major ingredient. Looks promising. I've
mailed them asking for more details, i.e. ESC, starch, iron, manganese,
magnesium.

Eleanor





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Saucier Kathy
 

Val,
We talked briefly about this one last year. Check message archives #76615. Then fast forward to #80476 on 8/31/06. Then starting with Lisa's message #80505 and progress forward through the dialog including 80514, 80517, 80519 and 80523.
Again in April '07 #90551.
I think basically if someone wants to use this feed or at least consider it, they should buy one bag and send in a sample to Equi-analytical. It might help several people out since this topic has come up several times.
I don't quite understand how it can be a hay replacer since it lists soybean hulls and wheat middlings as the first two ingredients. Sounds more like a feed, as a carrier for our supplements of course if you can't use beet pulp. But nothing to compare to Sterrett's, ODTB cubes or TC Safe Starch Forage all of which are a chopped or pelleted hay with the additional nutrients incorporated.
I never was able to get a straight answer when I contacted them. There is a lot of confusion with these feed companies when you ask NSC (old term), sugar and starch. They give you one of the figures and claim it is the whole NSC total. This keeps happening over and over.
I'm hoping Eleanor can get somewhere with her email asking for the ESC, starch, iron, magnesium, etc.
Kathy Saucier


STOMPERX@...
 

Thanks Kathy.

? i think this would be a product to feed only if you could find nothing else?? it does not intill confidence in me as a consumer, to not be able to get the answers.? there seems to be more questions than answers.

if no one is sure about this product, why is it listed on the cushing website as being a safe feed for IR horses?? the fact that it is in the cushing files, almost seems like an endorcement.? when i first saw it on the board, after finding it in "real life", i thought my problems were over.? problem being, no food for my horse.? i got excited.

how much does it cost to send in for testing?? do you just need a small sample, or would i need to send a whole bag?

val

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary & Kathy Saucier <gksaucier@...>
To: EquineCushings@...
Sent: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 1:04 pm
Subject: [EquineCushings] Re: ADM hay replacer





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STOMPERX@...
 

this is what i got talking to one person at ADM, not sure if this helps.....

fiber: 30%
protein 11%
fat 2 1/2 %
calcium .75 minimum, maximum 1.25
phospherous .3%
salt maximum 7.5
copper 30 ppm
selenium .25ppm
zinc 75 ppm
vitamen A 400 IU per pound
starch 6-7%


i think she was reading ingredient label to me.

she was not able to tell me sugar content or NSC.?

this is made with dehydrated alfalfa meal, NOT long stem alfalfa.

due to this being alfalfa meal and not long stem, if your horse is given this as total diet, or majority 80% +, of his diet, most horses get loose stools.? they reccommend that you give our horse at least 1 flake of hay per feeding to reduce the loose stool.

if you buy this in bulk, (by the ton) the formula can be "tweaked" to meet your specific needs.

sorry for not shortening the previous post....
? val

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary & Kathy Saucier <gksaucier@...>
To: EquineCushings@...
Sent: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 1:04 pm
Subject: [EquineCushings] Re: ADM hay replacer






Val,
We talked briefly about this one last year. Check message archives #76615. Then fast forward to #80476 on 8/31/06. Then starting with Lisa's message #80505 and progress forward through the dialog including 80514, 80517, 80519 and 80523.
Again in April '07 #90551.
I think basically if someone wants to use this feed or at least consider it, they should buy one bag and send in a sample to Equi-analytical. It might help several people out since this topic has come up several times.
I don't quite understand how it can be a hay replacer since it lists soybean hulls and wheat middlings as the first two ingredients. Sounds more like a feed, as a carrier for our supplements of course if you can't use beet pulp. But nothing to compare to Sterrett's, ODTB cubes or TC Safe Starch Forage all of which are a chopped or pelleted hay with the additional nutrients incorporated.
I never was able to get a straight answer when I contacted them. There is a lot of confusion with these feed companies when you ask NSC (old term), sugar and starch. They give you one of the figures and claim it is the whole NSC total. This keeps happening over and over.
I'm hoping Eleanor can get somewhere with her email asking for the ESC, starch, iron, magnesium, etc.
Kathy Saucier







________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com


STOMPERX@...
 

oh, i forgot, this analisys is? AFTER the product is made, not each individual product.
? val

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary & Kathy Saucier <gksaucier@...>
To: EquineCushings@...
Sent: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 1:04 pm
Subject: [EquineCushings] Re: ADM hay replacer






Val,
We talked briefly about this one last year. Check message archives #76615. Then fast forward to #80476 on 8/31/06. Then starting with Lisa's message #80505 and progress forward through the dialog including 80514, 80517, 80519 and 80523.
Again in April '07 #90551.
I think basically if someone wants to use this feed or at least consider it, they should buy one bag and send in a sample to Equi-analytical. It might help several people out since this topic has come up several times.
I don't quite understand how it can be a hay replacer since it lists soybean hulls and wheat middlings as the first two ingredients. Sounds more like a feed, as a carrier for our supplements of course if you can't use beet pulp. But nothing to compare to Sterrett's, ODTB cubes or TC Safe Starch Forage all of which are a chopped or pelleted hay with the additional nutrients incorporated.
I never was able to get a straight answer when I contacted them. There is a lot of confusion with these feed companies when you ask NSC (old term), sugar and starch. They give you one of the figures and claim it is the whole NSC total. This keeps happening over and over.
I'm hoping Eleanor can get somewhere with her email asking for the ESC, starch, iron, magnesium, etc.
Kathy Saucier







________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com


STOMPERX@...
 

again, sorry for not editing this shorter.

second person i talked to says the NFC is less than 10%.

he can not give me numbers for sugar or starch, but says?the NSC?is less than 10%.? he can NOT gaurantee this.? other woman had said starch was 6-7 %....

this is not recommended for replacing all, or most hay.? he did suggest this, plus the "stay strong metabolic mineral" = vitamens, minerals, low starch, low calorie, probiotics and yeast cultures.

if horse is easy keeper, he suggests senior glo: 12% NSC.

he says nutrena safe choice is actually 30% NSC....????!!!
val

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary & Kathy Saucier <gksaucier@...>
To: EquineCushings@...
Sent: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 1:04 pm
Subject: [EquineCushings] Re: ADM hay replacer






Val,
We talked briefly about this one last year. Check message archives #76615. Then fast forward to #80476 on 8/31/06. Then starting with Lisa's message #80505 and progress forward through the dialog including 80514, 80517, 80519 and 80523.
Again in April '07 #90551.
I think basically if someone wants to use this feed or at least consider it, they should buy one bag and send in a sample to Equi-analytical. It might help several people out since this topic has come up several times.
I don't quite understand how it can be a hay replacer since it lists soybean hulls and wheat middlings as the first two ingredients. Sounds more like a feed, as a carrier for our supplements of course if you can't use beet pulp. But nothing to compare to Sterrett's, ODTB cubes or TC Safe Starch Forage all of which are a chopped or pelleted hay with the additional nutrients incorporated.
I never was able to get a straight answer when I contacted them. There is a lot of confusion with these feed companies when you ask NSC (old term), sugar and starch. They give you one of the figures and claim it is the whole NSC total. This keeps happening over and over.
I'm hoping Eleanor can get somewhere with her email asking for the ESC, starch, iron, magnesium, etc.
Kathy Saucier







________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com


Saucier Kathy
 

Val,
I'm not sure why that file is under safe feeds for IR horses. I hope someone else can answer it. Maybe until tested it should be listed like the other files on feeds (good and bad). But I don't know the answer to that.
As far as testing, go to
http://www.equi-analytical.com/Services/Analytical%20services.htm
I think the one you would run is called Trainer (603). Someone who knows about what to ask for to test a grain or feed hopefully will speak up and either correct or confirm that. The 603 costs $49. I couldn't quickly find how much you send in but I was thinking a couple cups of it. You might call their number on the web site and ask them that question and also they may have a mailer bag to send you to send it in. They did that when I sent in hay years ago. But you don't have to. Just be sure the bag is clean and never had anything in it before to contaminate it.
One thing to remember is that any test run on a feed gives you the figures for that batch. There can be some variation from one batch to another depending on how the individual ingredients are running. Of course unless the company really pursues the end product to be exactly the same each time.

Yes those figures you mentioned are probably from the general analysis like you would find on the bag. Misses a lot of things we are looking for.
Oh and by the way if you only want to know sugar and starch, NSC (or ESC, etc. if they are testing the new way like we have been discussing on the group this year) you can just do that part for a smaller fee. You can even ask them to hold the sample and if you like the sugar and starch numbers and want to use the feed then have them finish out the other testing on it. Their NSC package #644 is $19.

The NFC figure they gave you doesn't make sense. If I have my facts straight, it will always be higher than the NSC and it is hard to get a feed down even to 10% NSC.
And as far as their minerals you or should I say your horse is better off doing your minerals custom. There are several people on here that can help you or pay for a consult with Dr. Kellon, but using the spreadsheet if you are handy with numbers will give you the ability to plug in your hay analysis and your feed analysis to see what is really missing and needs adding. I've not seen a manufactured mineral supplement that exactly matches what a diet is missing. How do they know what your hay will be. Often they won't even come close to some, and too much of another like iron. Then stuff in there you don't even need.

Hope that helps.
Kathy


STOMPERX@...
 

thanks Kathy.

? i am not going to be able to get it tested right away, i simply don't have the extra cash until i get my guy more comfortable and moved to new barn.

i will probably only use this as a last resort.? there are simply too many unanswered questions.

val





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Erin R. <figure1789@...>
 

You might call their number on the web site and ask them that question and
also they may have a mailer bag to send you to send it in. They did that
when I sent in hay years ago. But you don't have to. Just be sure the bag
is clean and never had anything in it before to contaminate it.

Kathy,
You're right about them giving you free mailers. They'll send you as many
as you want, and it is very convenient and of course, free postage! You can
also request them via email. I just sent my hay in, and indeed the
recommended test is "the trainer" at $49.
Erin and Nick, Ohio