I guess I will start by telling you alittle about myself. I live in
Illinois. I have a 5 year old little girl. I have had horses for
about 15 years. I have 4 horses right now. I am totally new to
cushings. Have learned alittle in the last 2 weeks. But am still
trying to take it all in.

I have a 21 year old QH/draft gelding. I have only had him alittle
over a month. And he was tested about 3 months ago for cushings. I am
working on getting the results back. All I know right now is that his
owners where told he was boarder line cushings. And he was put on 1 mL
of Pergolide. My hay is about 80% alfalfa and 20% grass. So I have
him on mare & maintenance by Nutrina. As I was told this is their
alfalfa ration balancer. I am looking into having my hay tested. But
I never have had it done before.

I have seen someone say that if the hair's hair is curly they may need
to give more meds. So thisa concerns me as his hair is curly.

He does not have any problems with his feet, luckyly.

So I would love to hear what everyone has to say.

At 2:27 PM +0000 1/20/08, stufflebeam61356 wrote:

I have a 21 year old QH/draft gelding. I have only had him alittle
over a month. And he was tested about 3 months ago for cushings. I
am working on getting the results back.

It's important to get those test results. Find out what kind
of test(s), and ask for the units of measure, not just the numbers,
and also the lab's normal ranges.
What we like here is the ACTH test to find out about
Cushing's, the insulin and glucose to find out about IR (which
sometimes comes with Cushing's or even w/o), and thyroid tests,
because often that's skewed, too. So, if you don't get the results or
if the info isn't complete, you may want to test again and get your
vet to do these tests. There's info in the files about testing, which
you should read first and share with your vet if you need to retest.

And he was put on 1 mL of Pergolide.

If his coat is still long and curly, you may have to increase
the dose. But you may want to retest to see how the ACTH is or wait
and see how he sheds out.

My hay is about 80% alfalfa and 20% grass. So I have him on mare &
maintenance by Nutrina.

Till you can get a glucose:insulin ratio from the 2 tests to
see if he's IR, it's wise to act as if he is. You need to test the
hay to see how much sugar and starch is in it. Till you know that
number is low enough, soak the hay. See the files for details.
Also, Mare & Maintenance is too high in s/s, I think, so you
may want to switch to one of the safer feeds listed. Beet pulp is
good, but if you can't use that for some reason, in the files under
Beet Pulp Sources is a list of places that sell other feeds that are
low enough in s/s. However, most of his diet should be hay.
Also, when your hay test results are in, you can calculate
what other nutrients need to be added to balance the hay. Till then,
follow the emergency diet. When you joined, I think you got details
about this among a series of e-mails. If not, you can find info in
the files section.

I am looking into having my hay tested. But I never have had it done before.

Your first step is to find a hay corer aka a hay probe.
Sometimes you can borrow one from the county extension office or a
feed dealer or your vet, but you may have to buy one. It's important
to use a hay probe to get accurate hay test results. So your first
mission is to locate one.
The amount of info you will have to digest is overwhelming.
Don't despair! We all went through it when we joined. I find it's
better to just learn what you need to know now and absorb more info
as you go. Don't try to tackle everything at once. And don't feel
alone if your head is spinning from everything. You'll be an old hand
at it in a matter of months. Ask questions when you don't understand
stuff. People here are very helpful.
So first, read up on the emergency diet and start your horse
on it, try to get the test results, and look for a hay probe.
Oh, yes! Exercise is important, if your horse is sound. Try
to ride consistently, and if he's out of shape, work up to it slowly.
But do exercise him. It really helps them.
--

Sandy Su
ssu@...

--- In EquineCushings@..., Sandra Su <ssu@...> wrote:

At 2:27 PM +0000 1/20/08, stufflebeam61356 wrote:

I have a 21 year old QH/draft gelding. I have only had him alittle
over a month. And he was tested about 3 months ago for cushings. I
am working on getting the results back.

It's important to get those test results. Find out what kind
of test(s), and ask for the units of measure, not just the numbers,
and also the lab's normal ranges.
What we like here is the ACTH test to find out about
Cushing's, the insulin and glucose to find out about IR (which
sometimes comes with Cushing's or even w/o), and thyroid tests,
because often that's skewed, too. So, if you don't get the results

or

if the info isn't complete, you may want to test again and get your
vet to do these tests. There's info in the files about testing,

which

you should read first and share with your vet if you need to retest.

And he was put on 1 mL of Pergolide.

If his coat is still long and curly, you may have to increase
the dose. But you may want to retest to see how the ACTH is or wait
and see how he sheds out.

My hay is about 80% alfalfa and 20% grass. So I have him on mare &
maintenance by Nutrina.

Till you can get a glucose:insulin ratio from the 2 tests to
see if he's IR, it's wise to act as if he is. You need to test the
hay to see how much sugar and starch is in it. Till you know that
number is low enough, soak the hay. See the files for details.
Also, Mare & Maintenance is too high in s/s, I think, so you
may want to switch to one of the safer feeds listed. Beet pulp is
good, but if you can't use that for some reason, in the files under
Beet Pulp Sources is a list of places that sell other feeds that

are

low enough in s/s. However, most of his diet should be hay.
Also, when your hay test results are in, you can calculate
what other nutrients need to be added to balance the hay. Till

then,

follow the emergency diet. When you joined, I think you got details
about this among a series of e-mails. If not, you can find info in
the files section.

I am looking into having my hay tested. But I never have had it

done before.

Your first step is to find a hay corer aka a hay probe.
Sometimes you can borrow one from the county extension office or a
feed dealer or your vet, but you may have to buy one. It's

important

to use a hay probe to get accurate hay test results. So your first
mission is to locate one.
The amount of info you will have to digest is overwhelming.
Don't despair! We all went through it when we joined. I find it's
better to just learn what you need to know now and absorb more info
as you go. Don't try to tackle everything at once. And don't feel
alone if your head is spinning from everything. You'll be an old

hand

at it in a matter of months. Ask questions when you don't

understand

stuff. People here are very helpful.
So first, read up on the emergency diet and start your horse
on it, try to get the test results, and look for a hay probe.
Oh, yes! Exercise is important, if your horse is sound. Try
to ride consistently, and if he's out of shape, work up to it

slowly.

But do exercise him. It really helps them.
--

Sandy Su
ssu@...

I will read in the files. I didn't realize they had all that info.

I am calling tomorrow to get he test results from the vet.

Also, he has only been on the meds since the end of Oct. I looked on
the bottle.

--- In EquineCushings@..., "stufflebeam61356"
<stufflebeam61356@...> wrote:

--- In EquineCushings@..., Sandra Su <ssu@> wrote:

At 2:27 PM +0000 1/20/08, stufflebeam61356 wrote:

I have a 21 year old QH/draft gelding. I have only had him

alittle

over a month. And he was tested about 3 months ago for cushings.

I

am working on getting the results back.

It's important to get those test results. Find out what kind
of test(s), and ask for the units of measure, not just the

numbers,

and also the lab's normal ranges.
What we like here is the ACTH test to find out about
Cushing's, the insulin and glucose to find out about IR (which
sometimes comes with Cushing's or even w/o), and thyroid tests,
because often that's skewed, too. So, if you don't get the

results

or

if the info isn't complete, you may want to test again and get

your

vet to do these tests. There's info in the files about testing,

which

you should read first and share with your vet if you need to

retest.

And he was put on 1 mL of Pergolide.

If his coat is still long and curly, you may have to increase
the dose. But you may want to retest to see how the ACTH is or

wait

and see how he sheds out.

My hay is about 80% alfalfa and 20% grass. So I have him on mare

&

maintenance by Nutrina.

Till you can get a glucose:insulin ratio from the 2 tests to
see if he's IR, it's wise to act as if he is. You need to test

the

hay to see how much sugar and starch is in it. Till you know that
number is low enough, soak the hay. See the files for details.
Also, Mare & Maintenance is too high in s/s, I think, so you
may want to switch to one of the safer feeds listed. Beet pulp is
good, but if you can't use that for some reason, in the files

under

Beet Pulp Sources is a list of places that sell other feeds that

are

low enough in s/s. However, most of his diet should be hay.
Also, when your hay test results are in, you can calculate
what other nutrients need to be added to balance the hay. Till

then,

follow the emergency diet. When you joined, I think you got

details

about this among a series of e-mails. If not, you can find info

in

the files section.

I am looking into having my hay tested. But I never have had it

done before.

Your first step is to find a hay corer aka a hay probe.
Sometimes you can borrow one from the county extension office or

a

feed dealer or your vet, but you may have to buy one. It's

important

to use a hay probe to get accurate hay test results. So your

first

mission is to locate one.
The amount of info you will have to digest is overwhelming.
Don't despair! We all went through it when we joined. I find it's
better to just learn what you need to know now and absorb more

info

as you go. Don't try to tackle everything at once. And don't

feel

alone if your head is spinning from everything. You'll be an old

hand

at it in a matter of months. Ask questions when you don't

understand

stuff. People here are very helpful.
So first, read up on the emergency diet and start your horse
on it, try to get the test results, and look for a hay probe.
Oh, yes! Exercise is important, if your horse is sound. Try
to ride consistently, and if he's out of shape, work up to it

slowly.

But do exercise him. It really helps them.
--

Sandy Su
ssu@

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I will read in the files. I didn't realize they had all that

info.

I am calling tomorrow to get he test results from the vet.

Also, he has only been on the meds since the end of Oct. I looked

on

the bottle.

Also, the only sign he shows is the curly hair.

He is sound. He is alittle thin but not back. And he came froma
rescue and he probably come to them alittle thin. But not bad. 50
pounds maybe.

Doesn't have any soundness issues.

--- In EquineCushings@..., "stufflebeam61356"
<stufflebeam61356@...> wrote:

--- In EquineCushings@..., "stufflebeam61356"
<stufflebeam61356@> wrote:

--- In EquineCushings@..., Sandra Su <ssu@> wrote:

At 2:27 PM +0000 1/20/08, stufflebeam61356 wrote:

I have a 21 year old QH/draft gelding. I have only had him

alittle

over a month. And he was tested about 3 months ago for

cushings.

I

am working on getting the results back.

It's important to get those test results. Find out what kind
of test(s), and ask for the units of measure, not just the

numbers,

and also the lab's normal ranges.
What we like here is the ACTH test to find out about
Cushing's, the insulin and glucose to find out about IR (which
sometimes comes with Cushing's or even w/o), and thyroid tests,
because often that's skewed, too. So, if you don't get the

results

or

if the info isn't complete, you may want to test again and get

your

vet to do these tests. There's info in the files about testing,

which

you should read first and share with your vet if you need to

retest.

And he was put on 1 mL of Pergolide.

If his coat is still long and curly, you may have to increase
the dose. But you may want to retest to see how the ACTH is or

wait

and see how he sheds out.

My hay is about 80% alfalfa and 20% grass. So I have him on

mare

&

maintenance by Nutrina.

Till you can get a glucose:insulin ratio from the 2 tests to
see if he's IR, it's wise to act as if he is. You need to test

the

hay to see how much sugar and starch is in it. Till you know

that

number is low enough, soak the hay. See the files for details.
Also, Mare & Maintenance is too high in s/s, I think, so you
may want to switch to one of the safer feeds listed. Beet pulp

is

good, but if you can't use that for some reason, in the files

under

Beet Pulp Sources is a list of places that sell other feeds

that

are

low enough in s/s. However, most of his diet should be hay.
Also, when your hay test results are in, you can calculate
what other nutrients need to be added to balance the hay. Till

then,

follow the emergency diet. When you joined, I think you got

details

about this among a series of e-mails. If not, you can find info

in

the files section.

I am looking into having my hay tested. But I never have had

it

done before.

Your first step is to find a hay corer aka a hay probe.
Sometimes you can borrow one from the county extension office

or

a

feed dealer or your vet, but you may have to buy one. It's

important

to use a hay probe to get accurate hay test results. So your

first

mission is to locate one.
The amount of info you will have to digest is overwhelming.
Don't despair! We all went through it when we joined. I find

it's

better to just learn what you need to know now and absorb more

info

as you go. Don't try to tackle everything at once. And don't

feel

alone if your head is spinning from everything. You'll be an

old

hand

at it in a matter of months. Ask questions when you don't

understand

stuff. People here are very helpful.
So first, read up on the emergency diet and start your horse
on it, try to get the test results, and look for a hay probe.
Oh, yes! Exercise is important, if your horse is sound. Try
to ride consistently, and if he's out of shape, work up to it

slowly.

But do exercise him. It really helps them.
--

Sandy Su
ssu@

I will read in the files. I didn't realize they had all that

info.

I am calling tomorrow to get he test results from the vet.

Also, he has only been on the meds since the end of Oct. I

looked

on

the bottle.

Also, the only sign he shows is the curly hair.

He is sound. He is alittle thin but not back. And he came froma
rescue and he probably come to them alittle thin. But not bad. 50
pounds maybe.

Doesn't have any soundness issues.

Of course my computer is being stupid and I can't get into the mare &
maitenance. Is it just telling you what is in it? Or does it tell
you any effects to your horse? I already know what is in it.

Hi (your name?)

I can't offer much in the way of specific information ('cause I'm
just trying to take in a lot of it myself), but I notice that you
said you saw the date "on the bottle." I understand from the good
folks here that the liquid form is not stable over any length of time
and they recommend the capsule form.

Check out the article in Files by compounding pharmacist Ian Hudgings
for information about pergolide forms and shelf life. Go to
Files>Drugs, Pergolide, Cushings Disease Treatments>Pergolide Forms
and Stability.doc.

When you talk with your vet about the test results, you may want to
discuss dosages if you don't think the current dose is having any
effect.

Good luck.

Jeanette
Colorado

--- In EquineCushings@..., "stufflebeam61356"
<stufflebeam61356@...> wrote:

Also, he has only been on the meds since the end of Oct. I looked

on

the bottle.

At 11:52 PM +0000 1/20/08, EquineCushings@... wrote:

Posted by: "stufflebeam61356"
<mailto:stufflebeam61356@...?Subject=
Re%3ANew%20here%20and%20to%20cushings%2E>stufflebeam61356@...
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/stufflebeam61356> stufflebeam61356

Of course my computer is being stupid and I can't get into the mare
& maitenance. Is it just telling you what is in it? Or does it tell
you any effects to your horse? I already know what is in it.

Here is an old message re Mare & Maintenance:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/101990
"minesafety" <MineSafety@...> wrote:

The one horse getting the Safe Choice is not my horse -- but a
boarder's horse, and it was her vet that said to feed Safe Choice for
this cushings horse.

We switched once from Mare & Maintenance to Safe Choice on a
veterinarian's recommendation, and wondered why he wasn't feeling
better...then we came here and found out that Safe Choice is 26% NSC, far
too high for our Cushings/IR boy. The Mare & Maintenance was 19%, so we were
actually better off with that, but not by much. We feed Poulin Carb Safe now
(10%) -- to everyone, not just Alf.

- Cindy and Alf (and entourage) in NY

I remembered right that I read that it was too high in s/s.
Try to aim for 10% or less. 19% is almost double the top range of s/s
we advocate feeding to horses with Cushing's and/or IR. It hardly
matters what else is in it: there's too much sugar and starch. That
can cause a sensitive horse like ours to founder.
--

Sandy Su
ssu@...