----- Original Message ----
From: Abby Bloxsom <dearab@...>
To: EquineCushings@...
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 10:51:01 PM
Subject: [EquineCushings] weighing hay


I
do
weigh
bales.
Every
so
often
I
weigh
a
few
to
be
sure
my
"feel"
is
still
accurate.
I
put
out
2.5
bales
of
hay
per
day
for
5
horses
(well
4
horses
&
one
pony),
and
the
bales
weigh
on
average
40-45
lbs.
I'm
lucky
that
my
horses
seem
to
average
out
pretty
well
as
a
bunch.
Still
have
some
fat
horse/lean
horse
issues
sometimes,
but
since
my
guys
are
all
stable
on
their
current
diet
this
is
accurate
enough
for
our
needs.

We
group
feed
3
horses
in
one
paddock
&
2
in
the
other.
I
divide
the
horses
as
"keepers".
Easy
in
one
group,
hard
in
the
other.

I
use
the
50
lb
scale
from
the
fishing
section,
which
holds
a
bale
just
fine.
I
snap
the
ring
end
onto
the
two
cross
ties
in
the
aisle,
and
hang
a
bale
from
the
hook.

-Abby


--
**************************
Abby
Bloxsom
www.advantedgeconsulting.com


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----- Original Message -----
From: Margherite von Ahsen




2.5 bales for 5 horses?

>>>>>>>>Abby stated that her bales weigh about 40 lbs each. 2.5 x 40 = 100 lbs of feed split between 4 horses and a pony. Roughly, 20 lbs each horse is about ideal for 2% intake given an average body weight.

I give my horses one bale each of a timothy/broome/alfalfa mix. Bales are anywhere from 60lbs to 70 lbs each.

>>>>>>>60 - 70 lbs each PER DAY? Yikes, I don't own a horse that could eat that much! Have you actually weighed out the portions or bales with a scale?

I also do not feed it all at once... I give it to them several times a day (every time they finish) and more at night if necessary due to cold weather.

>>>>>>>Perfect - frequent feeding is advocated on this list.

2.5 bales does not enough for 4 horses and a pony...

>>>>>>By my math it does, and by this lists protocols it does.

Also.. "keepers" are horses that have an abnormal metabolism which could be easily fixed with the right supplements...

>>>>>>>Uhm, nope. Have you been here for awhile? Have you had a chance to see us guide new members through our DDT/E protocol? Diet, Diagnosis, Trim & Exercise (if sound). It's pretty interesting reading and our recommendations for supplements are based on hay analysis & custom mixes. What types of supplements do you feel *fix* metabollic abnormalities?

Do you subscribe to any horse related magazines? They offer plenty of info for the layman, unless you have a great vet that you can learn from.

>>>>>>Uhm, don't mean to be cheeky, but Abby's knowledge and experience would surely make her a candidate as a knowledgeable experienced **contributor** to such magazines <grin>

Amberlee



.

----- Original Message ----
From: nona <nona@...>
To: EquineCushings@...
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 3:42:08 PM
Subject: Re: [EquineCushings] weighing hay


Actually
that
sounds
about
right
given
the
bale
weight
and
number
of
horses.
I
feed
two
60#
bales
a
day
to
6
full
sized
horses
and
up
that
amount
by
25%
during
unusually
cold,
wet
weather.
They
also
get
1.5
to
2
lbs
of
alfalfa/day
to
supply
their
calcium
and
protein
needs
which
my
grass
hay
doesn't
meet.

Do
you
mean
you
give
your
horses
one
60-70#
bale
for
all
of
them?
How
many
are
there?
I
guess
my
horses
would
do
their
best
to
each
eat
a
60#
bale
a
day,
but
there
would
be
a
lot
of
wastage,
and
they
would
blimp
and
burst
in
no
time.
What
a
mess
that
would
be:-).

Nona

Margherite
von
Ahsen
wrote:
2.5
bales
for
5
horses?

I
give
my
horses
one
bale
each
of
a
timothy/broome/alfalfa
mix.
Bales
are
anywhere
from
60lbs
to
70
lbs
each.

2.5
bales
does
not
enough
for
4
horses
and
a
pony...


[Non-text
portions
of
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message
have
been
removed]



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----- Original Message ----
From: briarskingstonnet <briars@...>
To: EquineCushings@...
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 1:07:43 PM
Subject: [EquineCushings] Re: weighing hay

I
give
my
horses
one
bale
each
of
a
timothy/broome/alfalfa
mix.

Do
you
mean
brome?

Bales

are
anywhere
from
60lbs
to
70
lbs
each.

Do
you
mean
you
give
each
horse
a
bale
which
weighs
60lbs
to
70
lbs?

I
also
do
not
feed
it
all
at
once...
I
give
it
to
them
several
times
a
day
(every
time
they
finish)
and
more
at
night
if
necessary
due
to
cold
weather.

Sorry,I'm
having
trouble
computing....do
you
mean
you
feed
each
horse
(how
many
is
that?)a
60-70lb
bale
of
mixed
hay
a
day,and
MORE
than
that
if
it's
cold
weather?

2.5
bales
does
not
enough
for
4
horses
and
a
pony...

How
so?
Sounds
just
right
to
me,according
to
the
weight
of
her
bales
(40-45
pounds
Abby
said.)

Also..
"keepers"
are
horses
that
have
an
abnormal
metabolism
which
could
be
easily
fixed
with
the
right
supplements...

Ok,now
you've
really
lost
me.Can
you
explain
the
above,please?

Do
you
subscribe
to
any
horse
related
magazines?
They
offer
plenty
of
info
for
the
layman,
unless
you
have
a
great
vet
that
you
can
learn
from.

....or
unless
you
join
the
Equine
Cushings
list
which
provides
plenty
of
accurate
information
for
the
layman
and
professional,if
that's
the
distinction
being
made.

Lorna
Kingston





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----- Original Message ----
From: 5 Pine Ranch <fivepineranch@...>
To: EquineCushings@...
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 12:55:48 PM
Subject: Re: [EquineCushings] weighing hay



-----
Original
Message
-----

From:
Margherite
von
Ahsen





2.5
bales
for
5
horses?

Abby

stated
that
her
bales
weigh
about
40
lbs
each.
2.5
x
40
=
100
lbs
of
feed
split
between
4
horses
and
a
pony.
Roughly,
20
lbs
each
horse
is
about
ideal
for
2%
intake
given
an
average
body
weight.


I
give
my
horses
one
bale
each
of
a
timothy/broome/alfalfa
mix.
Bales
are
anywhere
from
60lbs
to
70
lbs
each.

60

-
70
lbs
each
PER
DAY?
Yikes,
I
don't
own
a
horse
that
could
eat
that
much!

Have
you
actually
weighed
out
the
portions
or
bales
with
a
scale?


I
also
do
not
feed
it
all
at
once...
I
give
it
to
them
several
times
a
day
(every
time
they
finish)
and
more
at
night
if
necessary
due
to
cold
weather.

Perfect

-
frequent
feeding
is
advocated
on
this
list.


2.5
bales
does
not
enough
for
4
horses
and
a
pony...

By

my
math
it
does,
and
by
this
lists
protocols
it
does.


Also..
"keepers"
are
horses
that
have
an
abnormal
metabolism
which
could
be
easily
fixed
with
the
right
supplements...

Uhm,

nope.
Have
you
been
here
for
awhile?
Have
you
had
a
chance
to
see
us
guide
new
members
through
our
DDT/E
protocol?
Diet,
Diagnosis,
Trim
&
Exercise
(if
sound).
It's
pretty
interesting
reading
and
our
recommendations
for
supplements
are
based
on
hay
analysis
&
custom
mixes.
What
types
of
supplements
do
you
feel
*fix*
metabollic
abnormalities?


Do
you
subscribe
to
any
horse
related
magazines?
They
offer
plenty
of
info
for
the
layman,
unless
you
have
a
great
vet
that
you
can
learn
from.

Uhm,

don't
mean
to
be
cheeky,
but
Abby's
knowledge
and
experience
would
surely
make
her
a
candidate
as
a
knowledgeable
experienced
**contributor**
to
such
magazines
<grin>


Amberlee




..



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----- Original Message -----
From: Margherite von Ahsen


haha...

Women just love to fight. Nothing better to do.

>>>>>>>>>Katrina, I do have much better things to do. There are several owners & horses in crisis on this list that we help every day. Yet hear I am responding to someone sneering at me for the countless hours I have spent as a voluteer and moderator of this list. Why is that? They were legitimate questions as it is quite obvious to me you know nothing of the protocol of this list which has been established for many years under the guidance of Dr. Eleanor Kellon, Robin Siskel and many other numerous, qualified & intelligent members.

==============

FYI... these supplements cured lameness in some of the geriatric horses we have... they also cured, many, many other issues with their health, as due to what our environment has to offer. The supplements that we use are custom made for each and every horse by a lab based on periodical blood tests.

>>>>>>>>>Please do tell me more. The research and knowledge I have aquired has led me to understand that blood tests are not an accurate reflection of dietary needs. Do you have research that supports these supplementary cures? What types of blood tests are being done? I have seen some amazing results with diet balancing but the custom mixes we advocate here are based on what the horse is actually receiving in the diet.....the forage.

===================

We also have rather LARGE horses on the farm, T-breds, Shires, other drafts, Quarters, and a few more - I don't really think that matters. Quarters can each as much as Belgians do, and the opposite.

>>>>>>>>>>I'm well aware of the eating habits of numerous breeds of horses, having run a boarding business for 9 years and having fed and cared for over 100+ different horses of varying breeds, foals, broodmares, show horses, draft horses, insulin resistant horses, cushings horses, endurance horses, sport horses, dressage horses, barrel racers, pleasure horses.... We have and do feed horses free choice and I have not ever in all this timee seen any breed consume 60 lbs of forage in one day. To advocate feeding horses on this list 60 lbs of forage is to quite frankly flirt with a death sentence....these horses are fragile with insulin resistance and Cushings Disease compounded by some that are lucky to have no laminitis to those that have foundered with penetration of P3.

====================


Like I said before...

What works for you, might not work for everyone ;)

>>>>>>>>I would highly suggest you get to know the audience that you preach to before making such statements. And a great place to start would be to read this list's Posting Etiquette Guidelines found in our Files Section. While you are there, have a look around - you may be surprised at the knowledge that this list has been founded on.

Amberlee

EC List Moderator/Monitor
.

----- Original Message -----
From: Margherite von Ahsen



"Good keepers" are usually horses with metabolic issues.

>>>>>>>What kind of metabollic issues are you referring to here? There are numerous ones.

=============

Every horse can "adjust" to eating less hay overtime, but their physical condition will not be the best.

>>>>>>>>What exactly is it about their physical condition that isn't "best"?

=============

Custom supplements do wonders for such problems.

>>>>>>>>We agree - but I think we are discussing something different. What types of custom supplements are you using and what are the diagnosed problems these supplements are fixing?

===========

We find that many people who have horses, do not feed them enough hay... usually too much grain, which causes these terrible, "cushing's" side effects.

>>>>>>>>>What are terrible "Cushings" side effects? I have horses here diagnosed with Cushings Disease that don't get any grain, haven't for years.

Amberlee

.

----- Original Message -----
From: Margherite von Ahsen



Old school of thinking never works.


>>>>>Gosh Katrina, you are sounding awfully condescending here. Please do consider the "tone" of your posts before hitting the Send button and again, I urge you to get to know your audience.

===============


Read more about "good keepers" and what exactly that means regarding metabolic disorders.

>>>>>>I would like to know what YOU mean regarding "good keepers" and metabollic disorders....that way we can all talk apples to apples. You might check out our Files Section.

============

Obviously we have two different beliefs regarding the daily consumption of forage...

>>>>>>>As applicable to the purpose of this list, which is to help owners of Insulin Resistant and Cushings Disease horses, yes - we appear to have some confusion and conflicting opinions on the practise of horses consuming 4-6% of their Body Weight in forage.

============

Besides, full horses are overall, happier horses.

>>>>>>We can agree on that one....and we work very hard to achieve happier horses here. Have you read some of the Files yet? The link to the Files can be accessed from the groups main yahoo webpage. If receiving this as Daily Digest or Individual Mail, you will find a link to the File section at the bottom of each email, usually highlighted in blue lettering. In particular, Files numbered 1 through 6 would be a good start.

Amberlee


.