I am new to the group and don't know how to have my hay tested. We
live just North of Vancouver, WA. I also was wondering if Horseman's
Choice Timothy Cubes are ok to feed. We have a 19yr old Welch/Shetland
cross. He is on .25 Pergolide a day and I have seen a difference in
his top line but no weight loss. I have picked up the salt and ordered
the mag from the feed store. I also have the flax to start giving him.
I will be bringing my scale back to the barn so that I can start
weighting his food. I am figuring 7lbs of food a day.....
Any other advise?

Thank you
Dannice and Rocket

Hi Dannice,
You need to borrow a hay corer. Do you have a feed store that tests hay? or a cow farmer, hay farmer or even an Agriculture Office that might have one? If you go to www.dairyone.com and read some of the information on that site, you'll get an education about hay. We recommend test # 603 at Equi-analytical (their sister site/same bldg). This will give you sugar/starch and the trace minerals that you'll need to balance. The test costs $49. Canada also has Al-Labs and the test we suggest there is F2-Forage pckg+NSC for $53.
You'll have to ask the company that makes the cubes you are feeding for an analysis. We aim for 10% or less sugar/starch a day. Soaking hay helps reduce sugar, you could probably soak/drain the cubes. How about Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance cubes? They are low nsc/mineral balanced! Be sure to grind your flax seed daily.
7#s of feed a day is good for a 350 pound pony this time of year. That 2% his body weight.
Mandy and Asher in VA

HI Danice,

Welcome to the group. Help yourself to the files. It sounds like you
are well on your way.

Sterett Bros Hay and Feed makes a pellet. I think they are now
called Mid Valley Milling. One of their distributors is in
Vancouver, WA. I think it's Thrifty Feed. Give them a call and see
if they have the Low NSC Pelleted Hay and Balanced Minerals. That's
also a balanced product under 10% nsc.

In the meantime, you may consider soaking your hay until you can get
it tested. Soaking can reduce the sugars up to 30%. You would want
to weigh the hay dry, put it in a hay net. Then soak it for 1 hour
in cold water or 30 min in hot water. Be sure to dump the water
where your pony can't get to it.

Glad you're here. Ask all the questions that you want.

Joan and Dazzle



--- In EquineCushings@..., "idlerranch1996"
<idlerranch2@...> wrote:

I am new to the group and don't know how to have my hay tested.

We

live just North of Vancouver, WA. I

I will start with emailing the company and see if I can get an analysis. He has had no lamanitis. Knock on wood, and the vet visualed the Cushings. I am going to have him tested as soon as can be afforded. There have been to many other vet bills this last month to do it now.
I refigured his feed after I taped him yesterday and it looks more like 9lbs of food. I also have started lunging him on my days off. I just want to get some of his weight off. He is to heavy and it has always been a problem.
Having never tested hay before I don't know how to go about it. Any advise?

Thanks for the input it is much appreciated.

Dannice and Rocket

Thanks for the input. Are you suggesting that I could just feed him the pelleted hay cubes?
I emailed the other company and asked for an analysis. I will see what they come back with. Until then I will start soaking his hay.
I taped him and he is just under 600lbs., way to heavy. I'm thinking 3lbs hay, 3lbs cubes, and 1 1/2lbs (dry) beet pulp a day. What say you?

Dannice and Rocket
----

At 3:19 PM +0000 2/26/08, Dannice wrote:

Having never tested hay before I don't know how to go about it. Any advise?

First, find out where you can get a hay probe. Often feed stores or the county extension can lend you one. I searched high and low for one and finally wound up buying one, but it'll save you money if you can borrow one.
When you get your hay probe, drill cores from about 15 bales of hay with a cordless electric drill attached to the hay probe. Drilling the cores doesn't even show in the bales after you've done it, so don't worry about ruining the hay. Drill into the long end, and drill halfway in for each bale. For detailed instructions, see the Equi-analytical Web site: www.equi-analytical.com.
When you get samples from the bales, put them in a large plastic trash bag, mix well with your hands, then take out enough of the hay to fill a 1-quart zip lock bag. That gets sent off to a place to analyze hay. A lot of people here use Equi-analytical. If you do, ask for the Trainer #603 hay test, which will cost just under $50. You can mail them your hay sample and they can e-mail you the results.
Then you can find out if your hay is safe by adding ESC + starch from the hay test. It's safe if it comes out 10% or below. However, some horses are sensitive with even that generally safe percentage, and you might still have to soak your hay. Definitely soak your hay till you find out and even after the hay test if it's above 10%.
The next step after you get the hay test results is to balance the supplements to what's in the hay -- or what's not in the hay, actually. This is fairly complicated, though people do it themselves with lots of help from more experienced people here. Since I'm a math dunce, I hired Dr. Kellon to do it for me.
Once you find out what you need to supplement and in what amounts, you buy those supplements and mix them up for your horse, or else you can get it done for you by ordering a custom supplement from Uckele or HorseTech.
This, in a nutshell, is how to test your hay and what to do with the results when you get them.
--

Sandy Su
ssu@...

Having never tested hay before I don't know how to go about it. Any advise?

Thanks for the input it is much appreciated.

Dannice and Rocket

Hi Dannice ~

Folder #7 in the files at http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files has
detailed info on hay analysis.

Also, go to
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/9%20Case%20Histories/
and fill out a case history form - this will help the list greeters and volunteers to get you
going in the right direction. (This is a new Case History system we're using so let us know
if you have problems with it : )

Patti K
Vail AZ

Hi Dannice,

I live in Vancouver, WA and the only hay type feed that is available,
to my knowledge, in our area is the Sterret Pellets. You can get them
from Thrifty Feed or if you want to save the tax you can go to
Concentrates Inc. in Portland. With either company you need to buy them
a ton at a time. I got really lucky this past year and got hay that
worked for my mare but by the end of summer she will be out so I'll be
hay hunting again or ordering the pellets again this year.

Courtney, Lela and Lady
www.msredshorsecookies.com

I just talked to Thrifty Feed and they told me about the ton buying. I would be concerned about the shelf life in buying by the ton. I need to get my hay tested before I decide which way to go.
Where in Vancouver do you live? We are in La Center.
Thank you for the info.

Dannice
---- >

My computer won't open Doc files so I can't fill one out.

---- plwoodbury <DesertHorses@...> wrote:

I got the analysis back from Triple Crown
They said that the cubes do not have a guaranteed NSC content and would vary just as any hay supple does. They have tested between 6.6%-14% but are not guaranteed to test below any certain percentage.
Crude Protein 8%
Crude Fiber 38%
Crude Fat 2%
Moisture 12%
The lady that emailed said they also have a Timothy Balancer Cube that is beet pulp and timoth hay that does have a lower NSC and a Triple Crown Safe Starch Forage that is guaranteed to be NSC 10% or lower.

Can anyone give me some advise on all of this?
Thank you so much
Dannice


---- Joan and Dazzle <horsies4luv@...> wrote:

At 7:36 PM +0000 2/26/08, Dannice wrote:

Triple Crown ... The lady that emailed said they also have a Timothy Balancer Cube that is beet pulp and timoth hay that does have a lower NSC

I wonder if she means Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance Cubes.

and a Triple Crown Safe Starch Forage that is guaranteed to be NSC 10% or lower.

Can anyone give me some advise on all of this?

Both the ODTB cubes and the TC Safe Starch Forage are feeds that some people use here and that are considered safe. The Safe Starch Forage is considered a bit too high in fat, which could be a concern if you feed a lot of it to replace hay. Probably the ODTB cubes are a better choice, if you can get them and if you can afford to feed them in quantity instead of hay. Then you don't have to test hay and add a bunch of supplements and try to get your horse to eat them. If you just feed the cubes, all you have to add is ground flaxseed, vitamin E, and salt.
If you buy the cubes, be sure the bag has a lavender label sewn into one end of the bag. Ontario Dehy makes other timothy cubes, with a different color label, and those aren't guaranteed low sugar & starch.
BTW, the cubes make very good, healthy treats, too.
--

Sandy Su
ssu@...

Dannice,
You said their email claimed they have a Timothy Balancer Cube with beet pulp and timothy hay. Do you know for sure that it is from Triple Crown? I went to the Triple Crown website and couldn't find it.
I am wondering if it is another brand. or the website is out of date with their full list of products.
Thanks,
Kathy Saucier

Re: feed
Posted by: "idlerranch2@..." idlerranch2@... idlerranch1996
Date: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:36 am ((PST))
I got the analysis back from Triple Crown..................
The lady that emailed said they also have a Timothy Balancer Cube that is beet pulp and timoth hay that does have a lower NSC and a Triple Crown Safe Starch Forage that is guaranteed to be NSC 10% or lower.
Can anyone give me some advise on all of this?
Thank you so much
Dannice

These are a feed made by Triple Crown out of Dillon, Mt. Is that the same company that makes the Ontario Timothy Cubes?


---- Sandra Su <ssu@...> wrote:

I got an email from one of the nutritionist and that is the information she gave me. The phone number is 1-800-451-9916 and her name is Robin Staloch.

Dannice
---- Gary & Kathy Saucier <gksaucier@...> wrote:

---- Gary & Kathy Saucier <gksaucier@...> wrote:

Dannice,
You said their email claimed they have a Timothy Balancer Cube with

beet pulp and timothy hay. Do you know for sure that it is from Triple
Crown? I went to the Triple Crown website and couldn't find it.

I am wondering if it is another brand. or the website is out of

date with their full list of products.

OD supplies TC with their forage products - used to anyway. Maybe TC is
now distributing the ODTB cubes?

Eleanor