Update on Angel


luckycharmfarm <LuckyCharmFarm@...>
 

i promise to get a case study up next month. just struggling to stay
ahead of the twists and turns here with angel...

the great news is, her hooves are fine after she has grown out at the
toe tips. a little flap even grew right where it was the closest to
the bone and the sorest. just amazing how her body knew what to do!
still not sure if the spring grass had anything to do with it. will
just have to see what the future brings and make sure my farrier does
not trim her too short at the toe tip. she seems back to her old self
again.

i recently switched to a different supplier so i could buy everything
from one place, get the hay tested, AND even have it all delivered for
a mere $10 but angel is foiling my plan.

she sorts thru the new T & A hay eating only that which she likes.
about 1/2 is on the ground when i get home at night. she doesn't like
it. i'm no longer soaking, btw.

i had been previously mixing the beet pulp with purina wellsolve l/s
and she gobbled up 100%. the new brand beet pulp is being mixed with
triple crown lite. she doesn't like this change either. eating
about 1/2 and trying to sort thru it.

as you know, she needs to gain weight so i am now going backwards.

i think she is on to me with this low sugar diet! ;~)

oh, and yes to whomever suggested it one my last post, this does
coincide with her starting on pergolide. but, i think if i went back
to equine senior and my previous hay supplier, she would be eating
fine. just my gut instinct...

is all non-molassed beet pulp created equal? i want to rule out the
new beet pulp as the problem because she seems to just not like it now.

is canola oil permitted and would it make it more palatable? any
thoughts appreciated.

that's the latest. let the experiments continue!

thanks,

nancy and angel


luckycharmfarm <LuckyCharmFarm@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "luckycharmfarm"
<LuckyCharmFarm@...> wrote:


oh, and yes to whomever suggested it one my last post, this does
coincide with her starting on pergolide. but, i think if i went back
to equine senior and my previous hay supplier, she would be eating
fine. just my gut instinct...

WRONGO?!

i fed her a bit of my neighbors hay this morning. mixed her beet
pulp with triple crown senior and lite. she was not much interested in
any of it. picked at it then walked out to pasture to eat grass.
yesterday at the park she was voraciously trying to eat grass.

basically she no longer likes any of her food. the fact that i
changed brands/suppliers is just a coincidence, right? it's the
pergolide, right? (1mg / day x 1 month).

nancy
going to soak my oatmeal and my head! ;~)


 


i fed her a bit of my neighbors hay this morning. mixed her beet
pulp with triple crown senior and lite. she was not much interested in
any of it. picked at it then walked out to pasture to eat grass.
yesterday at the park she was voraciously trying to eat grass.

basically she no longer likes any of her food. the fact that i
changed brands/suppliers is just a coincidence, right? it's the
pergolide, right? (1mg / day x 1 month).

nancy
going to soak my oatmeal and my head! ;~)
Hi Nancy ~

This is always discouraging when our horse doesn't go for all the wonderful stuff we
prepared for them : (

But I'm a bit confused - if you're working so hard to giver her lower NSC hay and feed,
why is she on grass at all?

Some things that can help - splitting the pergolide dose into 0,5 mg am and pm (usually
don't have to do this forever), or, if 2xday is impossible, back down the dose to 1/2 mg
and slowly work back up. Appetite problems are a known side effect of starting pergolide
in horses and humans.

Some people have had good results with adding APF to help with appetite when starting
on pergolide - http://www.auburnlabs.com/

Try some CocaSoya from Uckele http://www.uckeleequinenutrition.com/ezecommerce.cfm?
fuseaction=productdetail&productid=432
goopy, sticky stuff that most horses seem to like

Check the "picky eater" and "introducing new feeds" articles in Folder #8 in the files at http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files (and start with the simple,
cost free ideas first )

Patti K
Vail AZ


Cindy McGinley
 

"luckycharmfarm" <LuckyCharmFarm@...> wrote:

picked at it then walked out to pasture to eat grass.
yesterday at the park she was voraciously trying to eat grass.

You know, Nancy, if she can have free choice grass, then *of course* that's what she's going to eat over anything that isn't soaked in molasses! I thought she was IR? Or am I remembering wrongly? If she's IR, she shouldn't have free access to grass. If she isn't, then you have a lot more wiggle room where her feed is concerned.

Angel has likely been eating food with molasses and sugars her entire life. Like any horse (and like us, too -- think of yourself on a "lifestyle change"), when you try to give her healthy food, she's going to object -- it doesn't taste sweet.

Let's see what we can figure out together to get her eating so you can get some weight on her. So remind me, is she IR and Cushings, or just Cushings? That will determine our course of action.

- Cindy and Alf (and entourage) in NY


luckycharmfarm <LuckyCharmFarm@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Cindy L. McGinley"
<cmcginl1@...> wrote:
thank you cindy and i just read the other thread on weight gain.

no, angel is not ir.

she has always eaten what i fed her. big appetite. even loved the
beet pulp despite access to pasture.

i was feeding lots of beet pulp as recommended here for safe wt gain.
but, this new beet pulp is finer than the other. almost to a coarse
powder. i use lots of water as she is old.

i'm not sure about this new hay. she picks out just certain strands
to eat. i am going to get the hay she always ate this weekend.

i stopped the pergolide yesterday when she ate almost no breakfast.

so, will start over. go slower. just get her eating again, no?

(her teeth were done 2 months ago and i de-worm her).

best to all,

nancy


Cindy McGinley
 

"luckycharmfarm" <LuckyCharmFarm@...> wrote:

i stopped the pergolide yesterday when she ate almost no breakfast.

so, will start over. go slower. just get her eating again, no?

Nancy, instead of stopping it (which isn't good), are you splitting the dose? That sometimes helps, especially at first.

Alf went off his feed when he first started Pergolide, too. I gave him APF for a while and he started eating again. You might want to try that -- split dose, and APF. She won't need it forever, just until she adjusts to the Pergolide.

How long now has she been on the dose of Pergolide you have been giving her, and what is her dose? Help me out here with more information.

- Cindy & Alf (and entourage) in NY


luckycharmfarm <LuckyCharmFarm@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Cindy L. McGinley"
<cmcginl1@...> wrote:

"luckycharmfarm" <LuckyCharmFarm@...> wrote:
--- In EquineCushings@..., "Cindy L. McGinley"
<cmcginl1@...> wrote:
approx may 7: pergolide 1mg daily begun.

may 31: changed hay and feed supplier (weaned from wellsolve l/s to
tc lite).

june 11: appetite change noticed.

june 17: eating poorly.

i am having an extra busy work week here. just trying to answer
quickly.

angel ate better yesterday (more senior added). i am going to observe
her closely this weekend and re-start the med at 1/2 the dose if she
eats well today...

thanks for helping me.


5 Pine Ranch
 

----- Original Message -----
From: luckycharmfarm


---

Was there any noticeable change earlier than June 11th? The pergolide side effects should have been immediately noticeable. Meaning I can't see the relationship between side effects and appetite loss when the two happened more than a month apart.

Was the medication increased?

If not, we need to go back to doing detective work as I really doubt that pergolide is the issue here in which case we may be missing something more important such as a creeping sand colic?

Will she eat Wellsolve okay? Is the hay tested? Is it clean hay, not dusty or moldy?

Amberlee
.


luckycharmfarm <LuckyCharmFarm@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "plwoodbury" <DesertHorses@...>
wrote:
hi patti ~

i had a scare in april. a couple weeks after her 2nd trim she became
very ouchy. it was also april spring grass time. i thought, uh oh,
laminitis. so i started the low sugar diet. the xrays came back
showing the bone very close to the surface at the toe tips in front.
vet said that was the cause. (but why did it not happen right after
the trim??). someone here said it still could have been laminitis.
so i kept up the diet and started pergolide.

now, she is no longer sore and yes, i have relaxed restrictions. i
have started to let her out with the others sometimes in the pasture
and am not soaking hay.

and you have asked a question that i really need an answer to. is
there no benefit in feeding a cushings horse a low sugar diet if they
are going to graze on pasture? do you watch their numbers and then do
something when they become ir?

here are her numbers in case i missed something. the ratio thing???
vet said she is not ir. correct?

acth baseline: 61.5 pg/ml (ref range 9-35)
insulin: 3.93 uiU/ml (ref range 10-40)

oh, and her appetite is coming back...

thanks again everyone,

nancy
reading bedtime stories from the group