Below is our hay analysis from Equi Analytical. I used the hay
worksheet and it looks like we're really low in copper. Can someone
confirm that and give me an idea on how much to supplement? What's a
good source/form for copper? Any other problems that jump out at
anyone?

Thanks,
Patti

% Moisture 6.2%
Dry Matter 93.8

As Sampled Dry Matter


Digestible Energy (DE), Mcal/lb .84 .90
% g/lb. % g/lb.
Crude Protein 11.2 50.8 11.9 54.1
Estimated Lysine .39 1.8 .42 1.9
Acid Detergent Fiber (ADF) 32.4 147.0 34.6 156.8
Neutral Detergent Fiber (NDF) 63.7 288.9 67.9 308.0
ESC (Simple Sugars) 4.4 20.1 4.7 21.5
Starch .7 3.0 .7 3.2
Non Fiber Carb. (NFC) 10.3 46.6 11.0 49.7
% g/lb. % g/lb.
Calcium .43 1.94 .46 2.07
Phosphorus .24 1.10 .26 1.18
Magnesium .27 1.24 .29 1.32
Potassium 1.96 8.88 2.09 9.47
Sodium .060 .270 .064 .288
ppm mg/lb. ppm mg/lb.
Iron 161 73 172 78
Zinc 40 18 43 20
Copper 11 5 12 5
Manganese 31 14 33 15
Molybdenum .93 .42 1.00 .45
As Fed 100% Dry
RFV 85

--- In EquineCushings@..., "texasgal223"
<blogbrownstanden@...> wrote:

looks like we're really low in copper. Can someone
confirm that and give me an idea on how much to supplement?
Thanks,
Patti

ppm mg/lb. ppm mg/lb.

Iron 161 73 172 78
Zinc 40 18 43 20
Copper 11 5 12 5
Manganese 31 14 33 15

Hi Patti,

For your Trace Minerals, you are probably going to need to add not
only Copper but Zinc and Manganese also to balance this hay. Let me
know how many lbs a day you feed & if you feed anything else & I will
give you some numbers to look at. The Major Minerals look good and the
NSC number at 5.1 is really good!!! Do the happy dance....

Jennie & Ronald

Zinc 40 18 43 20

Copper 11 5 12 5
Manganese 31 14 33 15

Hi Patti,

For your Trace Minerals, you are probably going to need to add not
only Copper but Zinc and Manganese also to balance this hay. Let me
know how many lbs a day you feed & if you feed anything else & I will
give you some numbers to look at. The Major Minerals look good and the
NSC number at 5.1 is really good!!! Do the happy dance....

Jennie & Ronald

Dear Jennie and Ronald,

We feed about 20lbs. of hay/day plus one flake of alfalfa (which we did
not get analyzed). The horses are also on pasture which until recently
has been pretty poor due to the drought. Our area tends to have low
copper soils so he's probably not getting much from the pasture. My
guy also gets 5lbs. of SeniorGlo and 5 Right Balance hoof supplement
cookies/day. Their website states that 4-6 cookies provides 150mg of
elemental zinc, 5mg biotin and 10 IU of vitamin E.
http://www.rightbalance.com/faq/faq.htm

We called our hay supplier and asked them to warehouse more of this
cutting for us!

Thanks for your help!
Patti

--- In EquineCushings@..., "texasgal223"
<blogbrownstanden@...> wrote:

We feed about 20lbs. of hay/day plus one flake of alfalfa
not get analyzed). The horses are also on pasture My
guy also gets 5lbs. of SeniorGlo and 5 Right Balance hoof supplement
cookies/day.

Hi Patti

Is you goal to balance the diet for an Insulin Resistant horse or
just a senior horse? I am asking because some of the items you are
feeding might not be the best choice for an IR horse that is very
sensitive. The Senior Glo has an NSC 13.6 according to an analysis in
our Files. It also list 8% fat and contains Rice Bran, Oil, Molasses,
& Corn meal. All these things can contribute to inflamation. It's also
high in protein & the Alfalfa you are feeding is probably high there
too. Your new hay has over 11% protein as well.
I am just mentioning this because if you are not seeing the results in
controlling IR you would like, some of these things may be the reason.
Let me know what you think. If this is all working for you than I'll
proceed but if you think you might need to make feed changes that we
need to wait.. Our goal is to balance the whole diet & that has to
take into account all the contributions everything we feed make.
Also, what would you guess that flake of alfalfa weighs?

Jennie

Hi Patti

Is you goal to balance the diet for an Insulin Resistant horse or
just a senior horse? I am asking because some of the items you are
feeding might not be the best choice for an IR horse that is very
sensitive. The Senior Glo has an NSC 13.6 according to an analysis

in

our Files. It also list 8% fat and contains Rice Bran, Oil,

Molasses,

& Corn meal. All these things can contribute to inflamation. It's

also

high in protein & the Alfalfa you are feeding is probably high there
too. Your new hay has over 11% protein as well.
I am just mentioning this because if you are not seeing the results

in

controlling IR you would like, some of these things may be the

reason.

Let me know what you think. If this is all working for you than

I'll

proceed but if you think you might need to make feed changes that we
need to wait.. Our goal is to balance the whole diet & that has to
take into account all the contributions everything we feed make.
Also, what would you guess that flake of alfalfa weighs?

Jennie

Jennie,

My first concern is my 16 yo TB who has had a history of severe
colics that required trips to the vet and A&M. Thankfully, none
required surgery. His last colic (the 1st of June) presented with
what was probably a spasmodic type colic and had the added attraction
of being lame in both front feet for the first two days. I'm
guessing a "mild" laminitis although A&M did not call it that. We
dc'd the oats, Progressive Grass Balancer and Envision (Progressive
fat supplement) and switched him to the diet I previously posted.
(Our lab results for the PG Grass showed ESC 7.7 and Starch at 9.7,
the Envision was ESC 4.1 but starch at 15.6) He seems to be thriving
now. So, for him, my concern is to balance what I have or entertain
further refinements to his new diet. I'm horrible at guessing
weights but I'd say the flake of alfalfa weighs 5lbs.

We also have a horse at our breeding/training facility that has tied
up. We dc'd the Progressive regimen above and switched him to hay,
some alfalfa and pasture only. The improvement was dramatic. Since
then, the trainer put him on SeniorGlo plus Envision (3 cups/day).
His improvement deteriorated rapidly. They have taken him off the
Envision but still have him on SeniorGlo plus hay and pasture. I'm
taking Dr. Kellons NRC+ course right now and have alerted the
facility that they probably will need to dc the SeniorGlo.

Long answer to your question but my first concern is my horse :) and
ultimately I'd like to help with the other horses but that's too much
for one post, I'm thinking.

Thanks,
Patti

--- In EquineCushings@..., "texasgal223"
<blogbrownstanden@...> wrote:

Hi Patti,
I sent you a private email with some Links w/ great info on high
calcium. Did you get it? I didn't make a copy and now I am kicking
myself.

Jennie