bonjour


Linda Rollins <lindarollins38@...>
 

I am posting this for a friend of mine, and the barn manger where Peanut lives.

She's in the, "I can't do this, I can't do that" mode. I told her she CAN and HAS to make changes. She at LEAST called me, but I told her I would pass this on to the gurus and see if someone else can get through to her. She's very, very old school, as you will see from her story. Bonjour has been on grass right up until this recent bout. He is stall-bound, she freaks out when he lies down, but then tranqulizes him so he'll lie down, then has him on bute to make him stand up. (ARGH!!!!) Naturally, I told her to stop the bute, banamine and LET him lie down. She's ordering cubes tomorrow (at least she heard that!) I did get her to switch from liquid pergolide to caps last year - finally.

ACTH went to Antech. I told her to ACTH, insulin & Glucose at Cornell this week. She is very resisnat to change, but has at least reached out because she sees her horse suffering. Also told her to pull those shoes, that she just spent a small fortune hammering on those poor, sore feet.
Linda
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Linda in MA, Peanut in CT - 09.07




----- Forwarded Message -----
To: lindarollins38@...
Sent: Sunday, February 6, 2011 3:57:03 PM
Subject: bonjour

He started about 4 weeks ago slightly foot sore after a warm day then the next
day frozen ground.
He didnt get better just keep getting worse. My vet xrayed him soles are close to ground long toes and his right front may have 2 degrees rotation. He was already on cimeditine trying to help with his melanomas. He eats triple crown
safe starch dengie and he was on purina senior but i switched him to purina low starch very small handful with his pergolide. He was getting 1 mg pergolide. In july 2010 his ACTH 63.6 we increased perg to 1.25mg.

Did new ACTH 98.8 increased perg to 1.75mg. Took more xrays no change. He is on cimeditine, ixsosuprine, 750lb banamine 2x aday and 1 gram bute 2x a day. Was on 900lb banamine just lowered it. He got his feet trimed and heart bar shoes. Walking slightly better with new shoes. He hasnever been able to go
without shoes.

He is 1989 arabian gelding. I just ordered the soft ride boots. I hgave owned him for 16yrs and never seem him lay down. He lays down every night now. The digtal pulses were real strong in beginning now much less.


Linda Rollins <lindarollins38@...>
 

I did also ask her to get pictures of his feet. She is very, very worried, and I think that seeing that there has been no improvement at all may be encouraging news for Bonj.
Linda

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http://www.ecirhorse.com/
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Linda in MA, Peanut in CT - 09.07


merlin5clougher <clougher@...>
 

Welcome! The first responders will be getting to you shortly, but here are a couple of things to think about.

Looks like your boy is uncontrolled Cushings (PPID), and more than likely insulin resistant (IR). Not only can the PPID drive the IR, Arabs are notoriously easy keepers, and can be IR even without the PPID, so he has a double whammy happening. Fortunately, there is a good chance of getting him comfortable and happy again. Here is a nutshell view of what should be done, then I will address the individual bits of your message.

We recommend Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Excercise.

Diagnosis of PPID is by ACTH,(which you have done); IR is by non-fasting insulin and glucose draw.

Diet: Low sugar/starch grass hay, tested so that the minerals can be balanced to the hay. Alternatively, Ontario Dehydrated Timothy Balance cubes (ODTB) as a forage source, plus some low s/s hay to play with, if necessary. While waiting on test results, soak the hay 1 hour in cold water or 1/2 hour in hot water, drain and feed. NO pasture, grains, sweet feeds, carrots or other treats. Feed rinsed/soaked/rinsed beet pulp to carry meds and minerals. You can also use Ontario Dehydrated Timothy Balance cubes, lavender label (ODTB cubes) for the same purpose, and for treats. Add 1-2 tablespoons iodized salt, 2 oz ground flax, 1/2 tsp magnesium oxide, and 2,000 IU Vitamin E (in soy/lecithin capsules). This is the temporary emergency diet, and often helps a huge amount.

Short form: soaked hay, salt, Vit E, flax, magnesium, ODTB cubes and/or r/s/r beet pulp, meds and minerals and NOTHING ELSE. (except freely available water, of course)

Trim: This is so important: short toe, low heel, to bring the coffin bone into a more ground parallel state. Often these horses need to be trimmed every 2 weeks at the beginning, so remove the shoes, use boots as necessary. Long walls exacerbate any pain; you may find he is greatly relieved once the correct trims start.

Exercise: only as able, and obviously not at the moment! Laying down is good - it gets him off those feet for now. In the acute stages, making him comfy with deep bedding, hoof boots, and access to a dry lot area where he can wander at will are all good.


>>He eats triple crown safe starch <<


TC Safe Starch forage is indeed low in sugars and starch; sadly, it is too high in pro-inflammatory omega 6 fats (veggie oil and rice bran), and has not any extra source of omega 3 fats (as in flaxseed). Additionally, it has added iron, which we don't want, as many Cushings/IR horses are iron-overloaded, a condition that makes the laminitis worse. If he can't eat hay, ODTB cubes are the best choice.



he was on purina senior but i switched him to purina low starch very small handful with his pergolide.<<
**** Better choice than the Purina Senior - small handful should be okay.***

He was getting 1 mg pergolide. In july 2010 his ACTH 63.6 we increased perg to 1.25mg. Did new ACTH 98.8 increased perg to 1.75mg.<<
*** Sounds like pergolide might still be too low. Even if you can't re-test ACTH at the moment, I would increase his pergolide, by .25 mg every 4 days, til you get to 3 mg. Some horses need their base pergolide doubled during the seasonal rise of ACTH.***

Took more xrays no change. He is on cimeditine, ixsosuprine, 750lb banamine 2x aday and 1 gram bute 2x a day. Was on 900lb banamine just lowered it.<<<
***I realize a lot of people use banamine and bute at the same time, but they are both non-steroidal anti-inflammatories, so using both increases the chances of stomach ulcers. If possible, reduce the and the banamine by the following protocol: for 2 days, go to once daily; then for three days, once every 36 hours; then 1/2 dose in 36 hours; then no more bute. Banamine doesn't generally help much with foot pain, it is more effective with gut pain, so I would just stop the banamine. (Eleanor, you may have better info on this)***


He is 1989 arabian gelding.<<
**Gotta love arabs! At the age of 22, there are lots of good years for him yet.***

I just ordered the soft ride boots.<<
**Excellent!***


I hgave owned him for 16yrs and never seem him lay down. He lays down every night now. <<
***Laying down is good! Let him stay off his feet, if he needs to. There have been horses on this list that layed down, and stayed down, to the point where the owners were using disposable diapers to prevent bedsores - they eventually recovered.****


Remember to breathe! Take care of yourself, too. I can still remember when my two went down with laminitis within weeks of each other. I am a small animal vet, so you would think I could figure out what the heck was going on, with input from our horse/large animal vets. Not so! My poor horses were laying down, groaning, on bute, all the while I was encouraging them to eat the very thing that had set them off in the first place. I am so glad I found this list - I was just mortified that none of my textbooks or vet info that I had available to me had helped.

Overwhelming, I know, but it will get better.

Jaini (BVSc)Merlin, Maggie, Gypsy
BC09
EC Support