Prascend


millionairess1989
 

I just learned that Boehringer-Ingleheim will offer Prascend in the US from a FDA approved pharmacy. How will this affect getting Pergolide from compounding pharmacies?

Jennifer & Mill in TN
Jan 2011
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/ECHistory3/files/Millionairess


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

--- In EquineCushings@yahoogroups.com, "millionairess1989" <millionairess1989@...> wrote:

I just learned that Boehringer-Ingleheim will offer Prascend in the US from a FDA approved pharmacy.
Do you have any more details, press release, etc.?

Pharmacies are regulated by the states so there is no such thing as an FDA approved pharmacy.

FDA may have given them permission to market it for equine use, or BI may have applied for a new animal drug application to get FDA approval.

If they have FDA approval as a new animal drug, it will be illegal to compound pergolide from bulk drug. They would have to compound from Prascend, which would make it more expensive than the Prascend itself. However, there have been some court decisions upholding animal compounding from bulk drugs so the issue may eventually make it to the courts.

If they only have approval to sell without actual FDA approval of the drug, similar to the current situation with compounded drugs being allowed, they will not have any more legal status and you should still be able to choose compounded.

No official statements from BI or FDA so that's all I can say for now. Elanco also had pergolide under study for equine PPID use at three US universities but no official word on that yet either.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


muriel covington
 

I have a 23 year old female lipazzaner.  She was diagnosed with Cushings this past spring.  Vet prescribed prascend 1/2 tablet once a day.  She never went off her feed but she had terrible side effects.  Lethagic, depression,

SEVERE muscular/skeleton pain (yes, the package insert did mention that about 4 horses out of 122 had muscular skeletal pain).  She could barely move.  Kept her on the medication for 20 some days and the side effects just got worse as time went on.  Tried to explain what happened to the vet but was told they had never heard of such a thing and said to keep her on it!  I didn't because she was miserable.  3 days after she was off this drug, she was her old self.  The only problem she had at this time was that she had not shed out all her winter coat.  Started her on a product called Full Stride by Pureform for cushing horses that has high amounts of chromium etc.  She shed out the rest of winter coat and looked beautiful.  Fall came and she got laminitis for the first time.  My fault for not understanding hormone issues and sugar increasing in the grass in fall.  Anyway, had the same vet group come but a different vet.  Was reprimanded for taking her off prescend. Did not believe side effects she had earler in spring.  They insisted I try it again but start at 1/4 tablet a day graduallly increasing it to the 1/2 tablet.  "Emma" just kept getting worse.  To make a long story short, she started swaying from one front foot to the other tapping the tip of her hoof on the ground.  All day long she swayed and tapped.  She could not turn in her stall.  Was told to increase Prescend to 1/2 tablet.  Had been on 1/4 tablet for over 4 weeks, 3 days after increasing, she would not move.  Stood in the same spot in her stall going on 4 days.  Could hardly walk, could not turn and was practically falling on us.  Was talking to vet this entire time.  Was ready to put her down but because of the spring experience with prascend decided to wean her off and see what happened.  10 days later, she could walk and turn again and stopped the toe tapping and swaying!!  I contacted a more holistic vet and have her on cyproheptadine and evitex, previcox, full stride, a probiotic (KLPP), ocotea oil, traumeel.  This ordeal started Sept. 20th.  Today, 12/04/14, I let her out in a larger paddock for the first time.  She trotted a little and moved better than ever!  Please be aware that any drug can have side effects. Horses, just like people are unique. What might work for one may not work for another.  This experience was very upsetting because of the failure of the vets to recognize my horse could not tolerate this drug and needed something else.  I will contact the company because this was not a pergolide veil that was going to pass.  I just wanted to get this out there in case someone else has a similar experience.  Do not put your horse down until you take them off and see if they will get better with a different plan.  Thanks.  


janieclougher@...
 

Hi, Muriel - I am so sorry to hear about Emma's problems.  You should definitely get your veterinarian to file an adverse reaction report.  One of our fab first responders will give you more detail, but in the meantime please do be aware that because she can't have Prascend due to her drug reaction, the full effects of Cushing's disease/PPID may not be controlled by the cypro and Evitex (although the Evitex will certainly help), and so her diet must be quite carefully controlled to avoid laminitis in the future.  Diet should be low sugar/starch hay or forage (ESC plus starch less than 10%); minerals balanced to the hay; 2,000 IU Vitamin E; 3-4 ounces of ground stabilized flax.  Any pasture could set her off into another laminitis attack, although if she will wear a muzzle (with the hole taped shut so she can't graze) it is good for her to get out and about.

The Full Stride might be helping with regard to the glucosamine and MSM; caution with glucosamine should be observed in IR horses, while MSM can interfere with copper and selenium uptake, so it is important to have adequate amounts of these, and other, trace minerals in the diet.  The B vitamins might be problematic; here is a post by Dr. Kellon about this, but it could be that the amounts in the Full Stride are too small to make a difference:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/87630

Really, the best nutrition for your horse is to analyze your hay, and get a mineral supplement formulated to complement the hay.  In the meantime, using California Trace is a good start, or Arizona Copper Complete. There is a ton of good information on this list, and in the files, about the most optimum nutritional support for a Cushing's horse.

Don't forget to sign your posts with your name, general location and year of joining, so we can direct you to resources in your area.

Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC 09
ECIR mod/support
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/

 


 




---In EquineCushings@..., <muriel318@...> wrote :

I have a 23 year old female lipazzaner.  She was diagnosed with Cushings this past spring.  Vet prescribed prascend 1/2 tablet once a day.  She never went off her feed but she had terrible side effects.  Lethagic, depression,



Nancy C
 

Hi Muriel

Can you tell us more about her diagnosis?  ie blood work results, symptoms, etc?

The info about adverse reaction can also be files by the owner.  We have the info in our files.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

More about diagnosis here

www.ECIRhorse.org

Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 


---In EquineCushings@..., <muriel318@...> wrote :

I have a 23 year old female lipazzaner.  She was diagnosed with Cushings this past spring.  Vet prescribed prascend 1/2 tablet once a day.  She never went off her feed but she had terrible side effects.  Lethagic, depression,


 


janieclougher@...
 

Well, I am sorry to say that I missed the most obvious thing of all, as I was lying awake wondering why Emma was having such a marked reaction to the pergolide.  How was she diagnosed?  We still don't have enough information about the pharmacokinetics of pergolide in horses, or the effect of pergolide on normal, non-PPID horses.  There are some anecdotes of normal horses being mis-diagnosed, receiving pergolide, and showing no ill effects.  There are other rare anecdotes of horses showing non-transient adverse effects (besides the transient "veil", a condition of lethargy, spaciness and reduced appetite)

As Nancy says: give us a little more information. Some tests for Cushings result in a high number of false positives.

Next post will contain the pertinent info for diagnosis, diet, trim and exercise!

Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC 09
ECIR mod/support
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/

 




---In EquineCushings@..., <threecatfarm@...> wrote :

Hi Muriel

Can you tell us more about her diagnosis?  ie blood work results, symptoms, etc?

The info about adverse reaction can also be files by the owner.  We have the info in our files.

 


janieclougher@...
 

Hi, Muriel and Emma:

To be double sure we are answering your questions correctly, we need a little more information. Please take a few minutes and join EC History 8:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/info


Follow the instructions to download a case history template; then fill it out, save it to your computer, and upload it into the EC History 8 files section (make a folder, first, with your name on it)

The list philosophy is Diagnosis, Diet, Trim, and Exercise.

Diagnosis is  by blood tests: blood should be pulled from a non-fasting horse (or pony) in a quiet barn; blood spun, separated, and frozen or chilled asap, then sent to the lab at Cornell on ice. Ask for insulin, glucose, leptin and ACTH (ACTH is to check for Cushings or PPID - please ask for it if your horse is 9 years or older)

More information here:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/2%20%20Diagnosis%20Diet%20Trim/

and here:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/Blood%20Testing%20for%20IR%20%26%20Cushings%20Disease/


Diet is supremely important, in some ways more for what is not fed: no pasture, sweet feeds, oats/grain, carrots, apples, iron-containing supplements.  Diet consists of grass hay or haylage, with ESC (soluble sugars) and starch of less than 10%, plus minerals balanced to the forage, plus vitamin E, salt, and flaxseed or flaxseed oil.  One can use a carrier of beet pulp (rinsed, soaked, and rinsed) as a safe feed to get the supplements in.   The Temporary Emergency Diet uses hay soaked for 1 hour in cold water, or 30 minutes in hot water, with the water drained where the horses can't get at it; plus vitamin E, salt, and ground flaxseed in a safe carrier such as beet pulp (rinsed, soaked, rinsed).  More info on Temporary Emergency Diet here:


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/%203%20%20CORE%20DIET%2C%20ANALYSIS%2C%20NUTRITIONAL%20NEEDS/Basic%20Nutritional%20Needs/

Trim:  This is a trim physiologically balanced to the internal shape of the coffin bone, with short toe and low heels.  Trim is often a neglected or mis-understood piece of the puzzle.

Exercise: This is the best EMS buster there is, but only if the pony/horse is comfortable and non-laminitic.  A horse that has suffered laminitis needs a good 6 to 9 months of correct hoof re-growth before any kind of serious exercise can begin.

There is also a ton of good information on the ecirhorse.org website.



Give us a little more information; ask any and all questions.


Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC09
ECIR  mod/support

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/


 


---In EquineCushings@..., <muriel318@...> wrote :

I have a 23 year old female lipazzaner.  She was diagnosed with Cushings this past spring.  Vet prescribed prascend 1/2 tablet once a day.  She never went off her feed but she had terrible side effects.  Lethagic, depression,



 


muriel covington
 

Trying to find out how to use this site.  Would you like me to fill out a form somewhere with info. about Emma or just reply like I am doing now.  I do have lab and several bood tests to share.  One of your emails mentioned a history form.  Sorry I am having trouble knowing where to post things.

 

Sincerely,

Muriel


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Muriel,

You'll need to join our sister site ECHistory8 to fill out the case history form. I'll send you an invite to make it easy to join.

Lavinia, Dante, george Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


---In EquineCushings@..., <muriel318@...> wrote :

Trying to find out how to use this site.  Would you like me to fill out a form somewhere with info. about Emma or just reply like I am doing now.  I do have lab and several bood tests to share.  One of your emails mentioned a history form.  Sorry I am having trouble knowing where to post things.

 

Sincerely,

Muriel


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Muriel,

I worked with a Lipizzan breeder for a number of years - wonderful horses. You are lucky to have one in your life. So sorry that this scary and unfortunate event has occurred.

Lethargy and depression are "pergolide veil" responses. By the sounds of it, Emma had an especially bad case of it. Some horses do react more than others. Lippizans are known to be especially sensitive to medications in general - for example, when using sedation or anesthesia, they require half the standard dose for a horse of comparable size/weight. It may be thatthe  pergolide is another drug that needs to be very carefully administered with respect to the dosing.You were right to stop the meds as she did not appear to be adjusting.

We really need to know how she was diagnosed as PPID (Cushings). Some tests that are used are not at all reliable. With this breed, you would not want to use medications unnecessarily or at too high a dose. Prascend, the patented form of pergolide, is not meanttot be dosed in less than 1/2mg doses. To use a smaller dose, it is really safer to use the compounded pergolide capsules so that you can give precisely the correct, intended dose. We also recommend adding APF, an adaptogen, when starting the meds to help avoid or ameliorate the pergolide veil response in horses that are prone to it.

Evitex, which is a standardized concentration of chastetree berry, will help with clinical symptoms of PPID - coat issues being the most common. It does not control the excess ACTH production so the PPID continues to progress unabated. Cyproheptadine used to be the treatment for PPID before pergolide. It works temporarily but over time it ceases to do the job.

Why was she put on Previcox? Is she still on it? What was/is the dose? Mnay vets seem to be unaware that the correct equine dose of firocoxib is much smaller than the one for canines so tend to overdose when prescribing Previcox rather than the equine-qpproved Equioxx. Previcox is an NSAID, in the same family as bute and banamine, and has many of the same side effects over time as all NSAIDs do. If she is still on the Previcox, need to be careful when turning her out to be sure she doesn't overdo things.

Lavnia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team



 


Maggie
 

 >Would you like me to fill out a form somewhere with info. about Emma...

Hi Muriel,

Yes we do need you to fill out a case history on Emma in our sister group, ECH8.  The history sites are our "filing" cabinets for the detailed information we need to help you better and faster.  I just tried to send you an invite to join ECH8, but see that you are already a member, so you are partway there!  If you go to the main page of ECH8, (https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/info) you will see the instructions for how to fill out your CH.  Once you get all the information filled out, you can post us another note and let us know.  We also ask that you put a link to the CH in your signature, along with your name, date of joining and general location.  Your signature will resemble mine when you have all the info in it. Hang in there, we will help you sort through it all.  It does get easier!  In the meantime, just keep asking any questions that you have.

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/



muriel covington
 

Thanks for you nice post.  I am still trying to get use to this site and where I am suppose to post etc. so hope you get this.  I know that pergolide is the #1 chose for cushings but I do think I can ever try it with Emma again.  Tried twice.  First time 1/2 tablet X 20 days.  Second time for at least 6 weeks.  I don't seem to get anyone to understand what Emma went thru on this drug.  This is not the Pergolide veil described with just depression and being lethagic.  She did suffer those issues that only got worse as time went on.  I am a medical person.  This drug did something to her central nervous system.  She swayed from one front foot to the other alternately tapping the toe of her hoof on the ground all day long.  I am positive this made laminitis and rotation worse - all this moving about.  She became stiff and sore all over to the point of not being able to turn and barely able to walk forward.   Eventually, I tried increasing the pergolide to 1/2 tablet (1/4 tab X 4 weeks) and then (few days later) she stood in the same place in her stall, could not move.  If you pushed her to move her over she would stumble and almost fall on us.  She could not turn around. She was and  has been confined to a dry lot the size of 15 feet by 60 feet right off her heavily bedded stall on my property where I am only 150 feet away since the onset of laminitis.  She has typical symtoms of cushings in that last winter she looked like an artic pony.  She had longer belly hair and in the spring she did not shed out all the way until I put her on the Full Stride.  Hair on her legs was curly.  She had fat deposits noticeable on the sides of her hind quarters and her udder and teets were enlarged and hard.  Since evitex (3 months) and Full stride 6 months and diet changes these fat depostis have disappeared.  Note:I have owned Emma 3 years.  She was an upper level dressage horse.  Previous owner felt Emma should retire and wanted her to have an owner who would enjoy pleasure riding.  She seems to drink more and urinate more but truthfully, I have only had geldings prior to Emma.  I have a border on my property that owns a mare and I would say Emma drinks a little more than her.  Is there any other condition that will cause winter coat to come in really heavy.  As far as tests - Spring of 2014 (5/21/2014)  PRE-TRH ACTH was 118 pg/ml (ref. 9-35)  POST-TRH ACTH was 964 pg/ml (ref. 0 -110).  This was not done fasting and the post draw was approx. 10 or 15 minutes after the injectoin of what ever the vet gave her.  Is this the way this test is suppose to be done?This fall (10/14/2014) during this laminitis issues, ACTH baseline was 64.4 ( she was on evitex and I was weaning her off the pergolide - 1/4 tab every other day)  I understand the ACTH is normally higher in the fall so don't know how signifiant this test result is but ACTH was lower than the spring!  Insulin was 10.31 ( ref. 10 - 40 ) leptin 3.50 (ref.1-4)  Insulin tests have been repeated about 4 times since Sept. 20th and they have all been at the lower end of normal.  

I don't know what to do.  I have taken Emma to an equine hospital in the area (ELgin, IL) have spent over $3,000 to try to help her. Have gotten second and third opinions and everyone just keeps recomending pergolide even when I tell them what a severe reaction she has had not just once trying the drug.  She had rotation of confin bone in both fronts with some separation.  Have speical shoes with leather pads as her feet were so tender.  Had her shod using x-rays (at equine hospital) so we could cut down the toe as much as possible.  On previcox 50 some mg. (1/4 dose given to dogs) Prescribed by equine hospital as she has some arthritis in pasterns and the pain from laminitis.  Shoeing was recommeded by equine hospital to take stress off tendons etcl)  She is doing better but there is about 1 day a week, it seems the pulses are a little increased in fronts.  She is moving great but I still have her confined and take her on a very short walk.  She is such a great horse.  Hope you can help.  Sincrerely, Emma and Muriel  Elgin, IL          


kansteen5545@...
 

Hi Muriel -
The symptoms you are describing - shifting weight from one foot to another and then eventually not wanting to move is characteristic of a horse that is foundering. They do this to relieve the weight as best they can from their feet, as the lamina are tearing apart. It's not a neurological event. Can Pergolide cause a horse to founder? (Question for someone in the group) If not - I'm wondering if the dosing happened at the same time the horse was foundering - APPEARING that it was the Pergolide that was causing the problems.
Also - could you find out what it was that your vet injected before the test?
Karen
Scarborough,ME
May2014


---- "muriel318@yahoo.com [EquineCushings]" wrote:

This drug did something to her central nervous system. She swayed from one front foot to the other alternately tapping the toe of her hoof on the ground all day long. I am positive this made laminitis and rotation worse - all this moving about. She became stiff and sore all over to the point of not being able to turn and barely able to walk forward. Eventually, I tried increasing the pergolide to 1/2 tablet (1/4 tab X 4 weeks) and then (few days later) she stood in the same place in her stall, could not move. If you pushed her to move her over she would stumble and almost fall on us. She could not turn around.


muriel covington
 

Appreciate your comments but this swaying did not happen on the onset of founder or shortly thereafter.  Not until she had been on pergolide for awhile.  Emma would typically rest one front hoof (take the weight off it and slightly "cock" it when the founder first started and lay down and rest).  This swaying back and forth was different and she would aggresively tap (bang) the very front of the toe of her hoof on the ground - back and forth all day long sway "bang the front of her hoof, then sway the other way and bang the very tip of that toe. She was not resting her hooves.  This was an aggrevated movement.  She was severly stiff was stumbling and nearly falling and 3 days after stopping pergolide, she stopped swaying and tappinjg, could again walk forward and turning improved over the next few days.  Last apring, I tried pergolide when she was not in a "founder" state.  Similar problems occured.  She had behaviour changes but WOULD eat.  Seemed depressed but the worse thing was that she became severly stiff and could not move out.  Was on the drug over 20 days 1/2 tablet during that time.  This fall tried pergolide over 6 weeks.  You can choose not to believe me about all this but it was not a coincidence. Sincerely,  Muriel


Nancy C
 

Hi Muriel

We're not "not believing you".  Just trying to pull the confounding factors apart to give you the best help possible.  We believe you saw what you saw.  "Why" is what we need to understand so that you can hopefully do the best for Emma.

I'm hoping Dr Kellon will weigh in here but Muriel we really need you to fill out a case history.  You are doing a good job responding to these messages.  I have sent you an invitation to another group which is a "filling cabinet" of sorts.  You need to join there like you did here, download  and fill out the Case History form.  that way we will know better what you know and will be able to refer back to it as we go forward.  It really, really helps us help you.

Look for an email from ECHistory8.  Click on that and follow the instructions.  Let us know if you have problems.


Karen - the vet likely injected thyrotropin releasing hormone (TRH)  to test the ACTH response.  The TRH stim test is described in the Diagnosis proceedings from the 2013 NO Laminitis Conf

2013 NO Laminitis Conference Proceedings & Recordings

 

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Hear Drs Kellon and Bowker and more, in eight hours of great info and informative Q&A from 2013 NO Laminitis! Conference.

2013 NO Laminitis Conference Proceedings & Recordings

 


muriel covington
 

I joined but don't seem to able to find instructions on how to fill out a case history.  Sorry.

 

Muriel


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 


Hi Muriel,

Here is the link to the case history folder:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/%201-INSTRUCTIONS%20AND%20CH%20TEMPLATE/

You are doing fine with your posting. Yahoo does make it difficult and we appreciate your efforts.

We believe what you say was happening to Emma. With her ACTH being 118pg/ml, which is more than 3 times the high normal amount, during the spring when ACTH levelas are at their natural lowest levels she is definitely PPID. The lower test result in Oct, when she was on .25mg pergolide every other day, was due to the effects of the pergolide. That this tiny dose was partially controlling her ACTH during the time of year when ACTH rises tells you she is extremely sensitive to the effects of the medication. Lippizans are known to metabolize meds much more slowly than other breeds. Generally, pergolide is cleared from a horse's system in 6-8 hours. Because she was likely clearing the drug much more slowly, she was - thru NO FAULT of yours - accumulating the drug in her system, resulting in an overdose.

Encourage you to post pics of her trim, shoes in the ECH8 PHOTOS section. That way, we can help make sure her trim is optimal for healing. Your comment that the shoes and trim were aimed at "relieving stress from the tendons" is a red flag that the heels have been left too high, or have been wedged up. This is based on an old-school and erroneous belief that the DDFT perpetuates rotation. This type of set-up will orient her coffin bone to point toward the ground and have a spear-like effect on the sole. The pulses you are seeing are an indication that the trim is not optimal and/or that the trigger(s) for her laminitis haven't been removed completely.

What is Emma's weight? From your description, it is likely she is on a 57mg dose of Previcox, which is the proper dose for a 1300lb horse. Overdosing is common when using Previcox as it is difficult to correctly divide the canine pills into the appropriate equine dose. Overdosing firocoxib, and extended use of it beyond the 2 week manufacturer recommended limit, greatly raises the likelihood of side effects and I would be esp wary with Emma as she has already shown how sensitive she is to medications.

The dry lot is certainly helping in the IR department. Your leptin and insulin levels are quite good. Fat pads are an IR and/or obesity symptom. Excessive drinking/peeing, laminitis/founder, enlarged teats/udder can be either/both IR and PPID. The coat changes are generally PPID, although mineral imbalances and parasitism can also affect the coat. Evitex (standardized CTB extract) will usually help normalize coat issues even when meds that properly control the ACTH (and therefore the PPID) do not. Making sure deworming protocols are optimal and dietary imbalances are addressed will also support her entire system in dealing with the challenges IR and PPID put on them.

Hang in there, well help you get this sorted out. Emma is quite lucky to have landed in your care.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


kansteen5545@...
 

Hi Muriel -
It's not that I don't believe you - I only had that thought - and thought I'd put it out there. In my own experiences I have seen one thing turn out to be something else entirely. I hope you can get everything straightened out with your mare - I know how worrisome horse problems can be.
Karen
Scarborough,ME
May/2014



---- "muriel318@yahoo.com [EquineCushings]" <EquineCushings@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Appreciate your comments but this swaying did not happen on the onset of founder or shortly thereafter. Not until she had been on pergolide for awhile. Emma would typically rest one front hoof (take the weight off it and slightly "cock" it when the founder first started and lay down and rest). This swaying back and forth was different and she would aggresively tap (bang) the very front of the toe of her hoof on the ground - back and forth all day long sway "bang the front of her hoof, then sway the other way and bang the very tip of that toe. She was not resting her hooves. This was an aggrevated movement. She was severly stiff was stumbling and nearly falling and 3 days after stopping pergolide, she stopped swaying and tappinjg, could again walk forward and turning improved over the next few days. Last apring, I tried pergolide when she was not in a "founder" state. Similar problems occured. She had behaviour changes but WOULD eat. Seemed depressed but the worse thing was that she became severly stiff and could not move out. Was on the drug over 20 days 1/2 tablet during that time. This fall tried pergolide over 6 weeks. You can choose not to believe me about all this but it was not a coincidence. Sincerely, Muriel


kansteen5545@...
 

Thanks Nancy -
I was HOPING it wasn't Dexamethasone!
Karen
Scarborough, ME
May/2014
---- "threecatfarm@cyberpine.net [EquineCushings]" < wrote:


Karen - the vet likely injected thyrotropin releasing hormone (TRH) to test the ACTH response. The TRH stim test is described in the Diagnosis proceedings from the 2013 NO Laminitis Conf


muriel covington
 

Appreciate your concern.  Sorry if I sound defensive about this but I have been going around and around about what happened to Emma on Pergolide every since this spring's initial attempt to use it.  Everyone kept brushing off the side effects like they were no big deal and telling me to use it anyway.  Not like we didn't try it again.    No one has heard of this happening and I was repeatedly told the normal side effect was being "off their feed".  Interestingly the package insert does mention a few horses having behavior issues, muscular/skeltal pain etc.  Emma wouldn't have survived if I would have kept her on it as I would have had to put her down - that is how bad it was.  My area vets now "get it" but it was a struggle getting them to understand what was happening - until they saw her after I stopped the pergolide and they wittnessed the difference. 

I am concerned about how I can manage this problem as time goes on.  Hopefully the suggestions from this website/group will help and I will have the privilege of enjoying Emma several more years.  With my husband's help, I finally figured how to fill out history form etc.

Thanks.

Sincerely, Muriel