Newbie here...new some info


Lori <calypsofarm@...>
 

I have a 21 year old TB mare, former upper level eventer. Now retired. Her symptoms are: drinking 3 buckets of water at night (and it has been in the 40's and 50's at night here in Central Fla), and consuming alot while out in the field during the day; off her grain (eats her hay, which is alfalfa/orchard mix); normally wears a sheet at 59 degrees, in a heavy sheet in low 50's, then into blanket in the 40s, however, due to excessive sweating (especially belly and elbows), have had to alter what she wears and at what temps. Even in the 40's with a heavy sheet on, she was sweating; grew back her winter coat that was clipped last month; random swellings off and on of joints, mainly ankle area, that is not stocking up as they stay swollen for days.
UA was done this week and showed RBC's and WBC's and calcium carbonate. Blood was drawn today.
Did not use my usual vet, he sent another one who is very well respected. I have not used her before. She stated that you cannot get an accurate cushings test in the fall, that the season alters the readings, so she would't do one until spring. My friend, who has a sister that is a vet, and did a paper on cushings 5 years ago, says she has never heard this. Is this vet nuts? Or is this true?
Pending the blood results show nothing (UTI, kidneys, etc), should I just go ahead treat her as if she has Cushings?
What about her diet? Her grain is Seminole Wellness Senior.
Thanks for any help!
Lori
calypsofarm@...
www.calypsofarmeventers.blogspot.com


Mandy Woods
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lori" <calypsofarm@...>
To: <EquineCushings@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2011 5:59 PM
Subject: [EquineCushings] Newbie here...new some info


I have a 21 year old TB mare, former upper level eventer. Now retired. Her symptoms are: drinking 3 buckets of water at night (and it has been in the 40's and 50's at night here in Central Fla), and consuming alot while out in the field during the day; off her grain (eats her hay, which is alfalfa/orchard mix); normally wears a sheet at 59 degrees, in a heavy sheet in low 50's, then into blanket in the 40s, however, due to excessive sweating (especially belly and elbows), have had to alter what she wears and at what temps. Even in the 40's with a heavy sheet on, she was sweating; grew back her winter coat that was clipped last month; random swellings off and on of joints, mainly ankle area, that is not stocking up as they stay swollen for days.
UA was done this week and showed RBC's and WBC's and calcium carbonate. Blood was drawn today.
Did not use my usual vet, he sent another one who is very well respected. I have not used her before. She stated that you cannot get an accurate cushings test in the fall, that the season alters the readings, so she would't do one until spring. My friend, who has a sister that is a vet, and did a paper on cushings 5 years ago, says she has never heard this. Is this vet nuts? Or is this true?
Pending the blood results show nothing (UTI, kidneys, etc), should I just go ahead treat her as if she has Cushings?
What about her diet? Her grain is Seminole Wellness Senior.
Thanks for any help!
Lori
calypsofarm@...
www.calypsofarmeventers.blogspot.com



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Mandy Woods
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lori" <calypsofarm@...>
To: <EquineCushings@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2011 5:59 PM
Subject: [EquineCushings] Newbie here...new some info


I have a 21 year old TB mare, former upper level eventer. Now retired. Her symptoms are: drinking 3 buckets of water at night (and it has been in the 40's and 50's at night here in Central Fla), and consuming alot while out in the field during the day; off her grain (eats her hay, which is alfalfa/orchard mix); normally wears a sheet at 59 degrees, in a heavy sheet in low 50's, then into blanket in the 40s, however, due to excessive sweating (especially belly and elbows), have had to alter what she wears and at what temps. Even in the 40's with a heavy sheet on, she was sweating; grew back her winter coat that was clipped last month; random swellings off and on of joints, mainly ankle area, that is not stocking up as they stay swollen for days.
UA was done this week and showed RBC's and WBC's and calcium carbonate. Blood was drawn today.
Did not use my usual vet, he sent another one who is very well respected. I have not used her before. She stated that you cannot get an accurate cushings test in the fall, that the season alters the readings, so she would't do one until spring. My friend, who has a sister that is a vet, and did a paper on cushings 5 years ago, says she has never heard this. Is this vet nuts? Or is this true?
Pending the blood results show nothing (UTI, kidneys, etc), should I just go ahead treat her as if she has Cushings?
What about her diet? Her grain is Seminole Wellness Senior.
Thanks for any help!
Lori
calypsofarm@...
www.calypsofarmeventers.blogspot.com



------------------------------------

***PLEASE BE SURE TO REMOVE UNNECESSARY DUPLICATED MATERIAL FROM THE MESSAGE YOU ARE REPLYING TO BEFORE YOU HIT SEND -- ONLY LEAVE ENOUGH SO YOUR REPLY IS UNDERSTOOD***

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Off Topic but horse discussion list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHorsekeeping/
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Mandy Woods
 

Hi Lori,
Welcome to the group. It is unusual for a TB to be IR but it can happen. She' could be PPID aka Cushings too at her age of 21.. The best way to figure it out is by DIAGNOSIS. Have your vet pull blood for an endogenous ACTH test. Do NOT do the Dex Suppression test or Bet Labs Rhythm test. The ACTH test requires special handling so print out the files on Bloodtesting if your vet is reluctant to do it. Please send the samples to Cornell overnight air. Schedule the tests in a quiet barn early in the week. To check for IR, pull blood for Insulin and Glucose on a NON fasting horse. Feed soaked/drained grass hay the night before and morning of. IF the vet is scheduled in the afternoon, feed no more than 4 hours from a hay meal. No grains.

Your question about which vet is right about testing for Cushings now is typical. They are both 'right' and 'wrong'! We are in the seasonal rise when all horses this side of the Equator have elevated cortisol. We can figure this in the lab range (Cornell uses 9-35 pg/ml) and this will let you and your vet know how severe the Cushings is so you can decide on how much Pergolide to give. If you wait until spring, the ACTH will be at its lowest. IF your horse has a value of 65 today you would want to start pergolide immediately. You can tape down as you get to spring. We want the numbers to be in the middle of the lab normal.

DIET is low sugar/starch/fat. Until you know your mare is not IR< I would pull her off pasture and feed her the Emergency Temporary Diet. This is safe for any horse until you get your Dx and your hay analyzed. The recipe is in the file "Start Here". You can get the Temp ER Minerals at any drugstore. You did not mention if she's underweight or foot sore. Sometime alfalfa can make a horse sore. IF you can find some Timothy or Orchard grass hay and use that for a month so you can get a good Dx it would help. I dont know what the analysis is on your Seminole feed but many Senior feeds have extra fat in them. Fat can induce IR and/or make it worse. We recommend rinse/soak/rinse plain shredded beet pulp as a carrier for the mineral. Or you can use Soy Hull Pellets. Just one cup twice a day to get the minerals in her. Have a look at www.equi-analytical.com for the Trainer/#603/$49. This will be your next step. Then you can balance your minerals to the analysis. A balanced diet supports Cushings.

TRIM is a balanced foot with heels lowered and toes backed from the top. Boots/pads if the horse is sore.

EXERCISE is great for IR **IF** the horse is willing. Even handwalking for 5 minutes a day helps. Never force a laminitic horse to move.

The symptoms you mention: excessive sweating, excessive drinking, excessive coat sound like Cushings. Cushings is treated with Pergolide. IR is managed by DIET.

Keep reading the files. I'll send you an invite to join ECH5 which is where we store our medical records. Please fill out the questionnaire so the gurus can see the bigger picture! They will want to know as much information as possible to advise you. And ask questions as they pop up.

Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003


Lori <calypsofarm@...>
 

THanks for the information. I will start pouring through all the files.
Imp is not foot sore. SHe is now barefoot due to her retirement.
Her weight is good. While off her grain, she does eat her hay, which is a northern alfalfa/orchard. Since we are in Florida, there is not much nutrient content to our grass, especially now. SHe does very little grazing anyhow, she ususally just hangs out by the gate, waiting to be let in.
Thank you again..I will keep you posted as to our initial results.

Lori
www.calypsofarmeventers.blogspot.com

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Mandy Woods" <bittersweetfarm@...> wrote:

Hi Lori,
Welcome to the group. It is unusual for a TB to be IR but it can happen.
She' could be PPID aka Cushings too at her age of 21.. The best way to
figure it out is by DIAGNOSIS. Have your vet pull blood for an endogenous
ACTH test. Do NOT do the Dex Suppression test or Bet Labs Rhythm test.
The ACTH test requires special handling so print out the files on
Bloodtesting if your vet is reluctant to do it. Please send the samples to
Cornell overnight air. Schedule the tests in a quiet barn early in the
week. To check for IR, pull blood for Insulin and Glucose on a NON
fasting horse. Feed soaked/drained grass hay the night before and morning
of. IF the vet is scheduled in the afternoon, feed no more than 4 hours
from a hay meal. No grains.

Your question about which vet is right about testing for Cushings now is
typical. They are both 'right' and 'wrong'! We are in the seasonal rise
when all horses this side of the Equator have elevated cortisol. We can
figure this in the lab range (Cornell uses 9-35 pg/ml) and this will let you
and your vet know how severe the Cushings is so you can decide on how much
Pergolide to give. If you wait until spring, the ACTH will be at its
lowest. IF your horse has a value of 65 today you would want to start
pergolide immediately. You can tape down as you get to spring. We want the
numbers to be in the middle of the lab normal.

DIET is low sugar/starch/fat. Until you know your mare is not IR< I would
pull her off pasture and feed her the Emergency Temporary Diet. This is
safe for any horse until you get your Dx and your hay analyzed. The recipe
is in the file "Start Here". You can get the Temp ER Minerals at any
drugstore. You did not mention if she's underweight or foot sore. Sometime
alfalfa can make a horse sore. IF you can find some Timothy or Orchard
grass hay and use that for a month so you can get a good Dx it would help.
I dont know what the analysis is on your Seminole feed but many Senior feeds
have extra fat in them. Fat can induce IR and/or make it worse. We
recommend rinse/soak/rinse plain shredded beet pulp as a carrier for the
mineral. Or you can use Soy Hull Pellets. Just one cup twice a day to get
the minerals in her. Have a look at www.equi-analytical.com for the
Trainer/#603/$49. This will be your next step. Then you can balance your
minerals to the analysis. A balanced diet supports Cushings.

TRIM is a balanced foot with heels lowered and toes backed from the top.
Boots/pads if the horse is sore.

EXERCISE is great for IR **IF** the horse is willing. Even handwalking for
5 minutes a day helps. Never force a laminitic horse to move.

The symptoms you mention: excessive sweating, excessive drinking, excessive
coat sound like Cushings. Cushings is treated with Pergolide. IR is
managed by DIET.

Keep reading the files. I'll send you an invite to join ECH5 which is where
we store our medical records. Please fill out the questionnaire so the
gurus can see the bigger picture! They will want to know as much
information as possible to advise you. And ask questions as they pop up.

Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003