Date
1 - 20 of 35
What to do for Laminitis?
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skyappy95
Hi,
I've been posting about my horse having some Laminitic episodes. What can I do for that? I've been cold hosing & am considering going on the emergency diet but after looking thu' the files it says if you hay is low NSC then you don't need to use Beet pulp & my hay is test low 8% & I have HOrseTech min mix & was also usding Triple Crown 30% for extra min & protien. Kathleen Gustufson made up my diet for my horse. So, her diet is good but the Laminitis [mild] is still on & off. :-( She has had long term chronic Laminitis that I didn't know about before getting xrays so the last 2 years changed the diet & she was growing out new hooves but now things are really getting messed up. So, she does have hoof pathologies that I have been working on & were improving but because of thin soles & side bone she has not been 100% comfortable even with boots & pads which caused other probs such as rubbing & bruising so am casting her now but haven't found the right combo yet for 100% comfort. Am going to try some new stuff this weekend. So, should I go on an emergency diet even tho' her diet is 8% & use 1/3 beet pulp for hay & eliminate the TC in case that is a factor? Also, HOW LONG, should I keep this up? In the meantime, I am trying to find a vet that can do the tests. I live in a small town & only one vet keeps getting recommended & he won't come out so, I'm in a bit of a pickle that way unless I pay $300 for a vet that's far to come out. :-( What should I do next???? How do I get the Laminitis under control? sky Grants Pass, OR 2009 |
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merlin5clougher <janieclougher@...>
Hi, Sky - or do you prefer to be called Catherine?
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Here is what you must do next: Continue feeding the diet she is currently on. The 8% ESC+starch grass hay should be fine without soaking. Cut out all treats of carrots and turnips and other treats. Get a vet out to test ACTH, insulin and glucose. In message 162541, Susan posted about a vet near you: ******"I answered her privately but thought I would also email the list in case there is anyone else in this area that would like to know. I live near Gold Hill and use Dr. Dan Cochran. His number is 541-826-6752. My Arab gelding has mild cushings and Dr. Dan is so great with explaining things to me. Andy is 28 and I have had him since he was born. Susan Sam's Valley, OR May 2010"******* Take pictures of Copper's feet, so we can see what is happening with them, and the post a message with the link once those pictures are uploaded. Here is info on how to take good hoof pictures: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHoof/files/%202How%20to%20take%20hoof%20photos.htm/ Those are your three missions: no treats; get vet; take hoof pics. Hope that helps! Copper's case history: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/CopperTop-%20Oregon/ Jaini,Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy BC09 EC Support What should I do next???? How do I get the Laminitis under control? |
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--- In EquineCushings@..., "skyappy95" <skydove103@...> wrote:
Sky, I know the moderators will post with help for you and will ask you to update your history--or fill one out, if you haven't already--but in the meantime I just want to make sure your horse is not getting any grass. My gelding continued to have flare ups as long as I let him eat grass, even when he was only getting a blade or two through a tiny hole in his grazing muzzle. Our grass was very stressed and I am sure was full of sugars and that is what kept setting off his episodes of pain. I also wouldn't hesitate to go back to the emergency diet till you get everything sorted out. My gelding still gets his hay soaked even though it tested very low in S&S. I find that he has no problems when his hay is soaked, but when I fail to soak, he will have frequent 'ouchy' days. Good luck! Lisa in TX Pookey Bear June 2010 |
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skyappy95
Hi Jaini,
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Are you one of the Moderators? You can call me sky, that is fine. The vet, Dan Cochran does not come out to my area. So, I called my regular vet who is on the cusp of retiring & I really tho't he would not be open to all of this but he is willing & will do the testing for me. I just have to send him all the info which I printed out from the ecir site. So, that is in the works. Why do you want pics of her hooves? They are in casts right now & Pete Ramey has been helping me along with someone he recommmended & also now Equicast is helping me. So we are really doing all we can for her hooves to hold them together & get her as comfortable as possible with a good breakover. She has pathological feet from many years of wrong everything so it's only the last 2 yrs that I took over & started learning about this & she was growing out new hoof capsules & then this Laminitis thing started happening which, thank goodness, has been mild. She is able to walk & no strange stances,but it is not doing her feet any good. I was wondering about feeding before the testing. Does she need to have, like a full meal before the blood draw? & does the blood draw need to be during a certain time of day or anything? I know it should not be fasting. So, can I just feed her when I know the vet is coming? Thank you, sky --- In EquineCushings@..., "merlin5clougher" <janieclougher@...> wrote:
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skyappy95
Hi Lisa,
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Thank you for the info. What kind of muzzle do you recommend? She is not on pasture but there is like stubble but she is standing around mostly now & I really don't see her even trying to eat it much & why would now make such a big difference? That's the part I don't understand. Everything has been the same for the last 2 years & no problems then all of sudden there is. I did cut out all treats & am stopping the Triple Crown 30 just in case that is it even tho' she is on her second bag of it but did not have that last year. I'm just at my wits end trying to figure out what is the trigger! sky --- In EquineCushings@..., "lonestarquarterh" <mostlyaggies@...> wrote:
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merlin5clougher <janieclougher@...>
Hi, Sky -
I am one of the support team. I got such a lot of help for my horses that I want to "pay it forward" by helping out whenever I know the answer to a question. Plus, I am a vet, so I have access to a fair number of books (not that they are always helpful!) So glad you have a vet coming to test ACTH, insulin and glucose. Well done. Best thing for feeding is to have just her hay in front of her, starting 3 hours or more before the vet gets there. If the vet is desparate to arrive at 8 am, that will mean having enough hay out the night before that she still has a little left in the morning. Don't feed any bagged feeds or supplements before testing. Just hay. I was asking for pictures of her feet, because a picture can give so much information about the current hoof form and health. Obviously, if she has casts on, there is no point in taking any photos at the moment. Often, sadly, people will say "I have regular, excellent farrier care", but it turns out that the trim and shoeing protocol that is being used is just not good for a laminitic foot. Hence, we ask for pictures. Jaini(BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy BC09 EC Support http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/ . http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/CopperTop-%20Oregon/ |
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tomtriv <ThePitchforkPrincess@...>
What kind of muzzle do you recommend?Hi Sky, In the ECIR Files' Table of Contents, http://tinyurl.com/ydvj2ph If you do a search for "muzzle" in the TOC, you will find all sorts of links to information on muzzles in our files. - LeeAnne ECIR Archivist 03/04 Newmarket, Ont Are you in the Pergolide Database? http://tinyurl.com/yfahmda http://TakenForGraniteArt.webs.com |
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--- In EquineCushings@..., "skyappy95" <skydove103@...> wrote:
While the others help you sort through a battle plan, I can answer these two questions. I use a simple nylon muzzle--the black kind--that I have purchased from horse.com, Country Supply, Horse & Rider, etc.--I have gone through a few of these over the years with my old Cushings pony! Muzzles can be very helpful in certain circumstances--I am using one right now with my recently diagnosed Appaloosa gelding, who has responded well to simple management changes but needs to seriously limit the amount of grass he is taking in. In his case, I need to keep him moving more than my dry lot will allow, so the muzzle has allowed him more turnout for movement but less chance of pigging out. My IR gelding Pookey, however, seems to not be able to tolerate ANY grass at this point, not even the tiny amounts he gets through a muzzle. Second, 'why would now make such a big difference?' There are dozens of variables both with the grass and with your horse that could cause a previously 'safe' substance or practice to change. I will mention a few that have affected me: 1) Cold snap overnight concentrated sugars in the grass 2) Dormancy concentrated sugars in the grass 3) Heavy rain caused rapid new growth 4) Found corn in a 'safe' feed 5) Sugar-free peppermints were not really sugar-free! 6) Pain from feet (bad trim) caused exaggerated response to 'safe' hay 7) Foot fell out of balance medio-laterally (forgot to shoot x-rays that trim!) 8) Several bales of hay contained mysterious grass (must have missed it when I pulled samples) 9) Cushings signs worsened as pony aged Etc. There are a LOT of variables that we simply are not aware of, so we rock along, doing business as usual, till something like this happens and we have to put on our detective hats all over again! Lisa in TX Pookey Bear June 2010 |
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ferne fedeli
On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 9:55 PM, merlin5clougher
<janieclougher@...> wrote: So glad you have a vet coming to test ACTH, insulin and glucose. Well done.Jaini, It looks like I may have mis-interpreted yet again. I understood that we were to feed our horses whatever they normally eat before their ACTH, Insulin, Glucose, etc. tests!!! I even got up early this time to feed them, as the vet was coming late morning and didn't want any spikes! I fed them their hay, as well as the soaked ODTB cubes and regular supplements about 3+ hours before the vet was scheduled... What might that do to the results? They were pretty good this time, ACTH in normal ranges, but insulin sitll a little high... Ferne Fedeli No. California 4/2010 |
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Linda <PapBallou@...>
I
understood that we were to feed our horses whatever they normally eat Ferne - you are fine. What we want to avoid are the *problem* bagged products - no grains, etc before blood work. Linda EC Primary Response West Coast May 2004 |
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merlin5clougher <janieclougher@...>
Gosh, sorry, Ferne - you are fine. ODTB cubes are essentially hay, and the mineral and vitamin supplements you put in the cubes don't do anything to the bloodwork. I apologize for poor wording on my part: by supplements, I was thinking of various bagged products that are often high in sugar.
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Thanks for catching me on that one! Jaini,Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy BC09 EC Support http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/ I fed them their hay, as well as the soaked ODTB cubes and regular supplements about 3+ hours before the vet was |
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skyappy95
REALLY APPRECIATE ALL THE HELP FROM ALL OF YOU! THANKYOU!!!
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sky Oregon 2009 |
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ferne fedeli
On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Linda <PapBallou@...> wrote:
What we want to avoid are the *problem* bagged products - no grains, etc before blood work.Good! Glad we got that cleared up!!! Ferne Fedeli No. California 4/2010 |
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merlin5clougher <janieclougher@...>
Sky, you are entirely welcome. I just got in from outside, watching my three horses romp around in the snow, and I, too, am extremely grateful to the owners of this list (Dr. Kellon and Robin), and to all the great people who have helped me on this journey.
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I am just so glad I have the chance to pay it forward! Jaini,Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy BC09 EC Support --- In EquineCushings@..., "skyappy95" <skydove103@...> wrote:
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skyappy95
I think comments/suggestions about muzzles would be more helpful than just that HUGE list that is pretty overwhelming & not knowing even if
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this is something I should pursue. How do you determine if you need a muzzle? Other than the blood tests, what is my "battle plan"? The symtoms continue despite my best efforts. Seems I do all the right things but get all the wrong results. :-( sky oregon 2009 --- In EquineCushings@..., "tomtriv" <ThePitchforkPrincess@...> wrote:
What kind of muzzle do you recommend?Hi Sky, |
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annettescherr@ymail.com
Adding to Teri in Texas' list:
bad vaccines esp west nile virus toxic chemicals such as wormers not just grasses but shrubs and trees standing in too much mud for too long seasonal hormonal fluctuations microbial infections . . . . to name a few more Annette Scherr Member since Jan 2011 Southern California ascherr@... annettescherr@... http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Sparky/ http://flic.kr/s/aHsjvUiGq3 |
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gypsylassie
--- In EquineCushings@..., "skyappy95" <skydove103@...> wrote:
Hi Sky, I'm so sorry for what you're going thru. You've gotten alot of good info from everyone here and it's alot to process. I had never experienced founder before last May when my boy was x-rayed and found to have some rotation and was diag. IR. Yes I took it hard. Last spring was really rough but Chappie is doing well now. I know I still have to tighten things up (I still haven't the know how to get my history uploaded yet) but following the posts has really helped. Sometime last year I read something in the horse journal about inflammatory responses leading to laminitis. The article mentioned a course of probiotics in case there was something going on in the digestive system that could be releasing inflammatory substances. I know this is vague, maybe one of the experts could chime in, but some equine generator wouldn't hurt would it? Good luck Sky, Laura K. & Chappie & Beau N.IL. Nov. 2011 |
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merlin5clougher <janieclougher@...>
Hi, Sky - Here is what you need to do:
No grass or stubble, at all. If you need to put a muzzle on Copper to prevent her from eating the grass/stubble, then you can use that list that is in the files to source one. Many people like the Best Friend muzzle, with the hole in the bottom taped shut with duct tape so the horse can't get any grass through it. The diet should be okay (except for the grass/stubble); unless she is getting any treats or alfalfa? It is really tough watching them, but I am willing to bet it is harder on you right now than on Copper. I am not good at waiting, either, so I know it must be torture for you to be waiting for those blood results. It would be awesome if you were to post some pictures of Copper, full body shots, and hoof shots, even with her casts on - every little bit of information helps. Has she ever had x-rays of her feet? The most important part (apart from not letting her eat grass/stubble) is for you to breathe! Hang in there. Remember, if she is still eating, and still has a spark in her eye, all is not bad. One step at a time, you can get her better. Jaini,Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy BC09 EC Support http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/ Copper's history: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/CopperTop-%20Oregon/ |
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skyappy95
Hi Annette,
I don't give her vaccines. Haven't wormed her in a year as fecals are negative. no new grasses or shrubs,trees. mud is nothing new for her in winter either & she does have shelter out of mud. sky |
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skyappy95
she does get probiotics.
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sky but some equine generator wouldn't hurt would it? |
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