The Sept 2011 Equus had a short article re: new research into the use of psyllium (from the husks of the seeds of the "Plantago ovata") a high fiber dietary additive used to help expel sand from a horses digestive system. The study indicated that horses, when tested after use, had lower blood glucose and insulin levels after meals. Any one have any experience w/this?

Re: the IR Calculator, we just joined this great group and we downloaded the IR Calculator and plugged our mare's numbers in. To our shock,her numbers for insulin (20.75 uIU/mL) and glucose (88 mg/dL), although they are both well within the "normal" range listed on the diagnostic report, put her G:I ratio at 4.4, her RISQI at 0.22 and her MIRG at 9.37. All adding up to a Severely IR mare. We suspected that she was IR but were reassured by the blood work and the seemingly safe ranges within which she fell. Then when we used the calculator, we were simply shocked. Have others had this experience and how did you adjust your horse's diet? We sent hay samples off and intend to balance nutrients when we get the report.

Hey ~
Welcome to the list. Its good to see you've been cruising around the files!
There is pleanty to learn here. I"m not sheepish to say this group is light
years ahead of most vet schools so what you read here is new, cutting edge
and you may have some conviencing to do with your vet! Tell your vet about
www.ecirhorse.org


The list philosophy is DDT/E.

DIAGNOSIS is by bloodwork. To confirm PPID (Cushings) you would have your
vet pull blood for an eACTH test. This test requires special handling so
reviewing the Blood Testing file will help you. To confirm IR you'd have
your vet pull Insulin and Glucose from the same draw on a NON fasting
horse. I hope your horse was not given grain or worked before the test! We
often recommend a Thyroid panel for a base line. PPID is treated with
pergolide. IR is managed by DIET.

DIET is a low sugar/starch/fat diet. Testing your hay is the only way to
know what you are actually feeding. Balancing the minerals to your hay
analysis is your goal. There are few commercially made bagged feeds that
are safe enough for an IR horse. One is Ontario Dehy Balance Timothy and
this can be used as a complete feed. It was formulated by Dr. Kellon. We
do recommend soaking/draining your grass hay until you get the analysis
back. The Temporary Emergency Diet in the Start Here File is what your
horse should be put on until you get your hay balanced. The ER minerals can
be purchased at any drugstore or Walmart. Vitamin E in soy oil, loose
iodized table salt, magnesium oxide and freshly ground flax seed. NO
Pasture! NO grains and no treats like cookies, apples, carrots and no
supplements either. You want to 'wipe the slate clean' with this diet as to
remove as much sugar/fat possible so you can track everything you add back
in. It works.

Feed her soaked/drained hay as the major portion of her diet now until you
know the sugars/starch value. Many of us use soy hull pellets as a carrier
for the minerals. I use one cup of SHP twice a day. Another safe feed is
rinsed/soaked/rinsed plain shredded beet pulp. If you r/s/r it in hot
water you can lower the sugar that is left in it from the processing. Its
full of good fiber, warm water which is great in the winter and has a nearly
identical mineral base as OATS. Oats convert to 100% glucose when eaten!
Feed her atleast 4 small meals a day. Feed her 2% her body weight a day in
dry hay. I use haynets and fish scales. A muck tub works great for
soaking.

TRIM is a balanced foot with toes backed from the top and heels lowered.
EXERCISE only if the horse is able. Never force a laminitic horse to move.

You didnt mention if your horse is having foot issues, slow, stiff, back
sore or hock sore. Many times smoldering low grade laminitis is confused
for these. Can you feel digital pulses in her fetlocks? Can you see red
bruising in her feet? on the walls? These are subtle symptoms.

Please join the ECH5 group which is were we keep the medical files on the
horses. Answering the questionnaire paints a big picture for the gurus to
help zero in on tightning her diet or other issues. Keep reading the
files, ask questions as they pop up and we'll help. You may need to
start building a 'drylot' for her!

Psyllium is mainly used to remove sand from the cecum. It may help lower
insulin and glucose somewhat but I'm not aware of anyone doing followup
testing on it. It would be better to feed a low sugar/starch meal to avoid
an insulin spike! If you live in a sandbase area you'll feed psyllium one
week out of each month. Many of us get it at www.herbalcom.com for $5.65 a
pound.

So much to learn! It will overwhelm you in the beginning but you'll learn
quickly especially when you see your mare improve. Remove the sugar
quickly. Add new minerals slowly.

Please sign your posts and delete the post you're resonding to. (highlite
and delete) Tell us where you live (state) and of course sign the date you
joined (Jan 12?)

Welcome again and get ready for new year of equine management!
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003

Hi,

I put psyllium and glucose into the rectangular Search Box on the Messages page,and came up with a number of messages.

This is from Joan,and should answer your question.I hope.


153553

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

This is from Joan,and should answer your question.I hope.

153553

Sorry. Meant to say,type this message number into the Message Box(the smaller one) one the web page and Joan's complete message should come up.



Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

We had the EXACT same situation happen with our 22 year old, 13-hand pony, Scout. The vet did insulin and glucose and said his test came back perfectly normal. We plugged in his numbers and the IR calculator said he was severely IR. That was back in 2009.
He is a very easy keeper, so we put him on the IR diet, were meticulous about his trims, and tried to keep him well exercised. He has been very healthy up until just this past week.
He came down with an unexplained acute laminitis episode, so we are trying to get him through this episode and back on the road to good health. We have NO idea why he became laminitic.
I can't find a vet that will work with me yet to test and treat according to Dr. Kellon's protocol - and this is the only way I will proceed. So, my search continues to find a vet and then retest in a few months once his laminitis clears up.
Marianne
Northern IL
Jan2012

Marianne; I have a few vets that I work with in Northern
Illinois, where are you located?
Sherry LaMarche

From: Marianne Henze
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 7:35 AM
To: EquineCushings@...
Subject: [EquineCushings] Psyllium and IR and Questions Re: IR Calculator and Conventional Ranges


We had the EXACT same situation happen with our 22 year old, 13-hand pony, Scout. The vet did insulin and glucose and said his test came back perfectly normal. We plugged in his numbers and the IR calculator said he was severely IR. That was back in 2009.
He is a very easy keeper, so we put him on the IR diet, were meticulous about his trims, and tried to keep him well exercised. He has been very healthy up until just this past week.
He came down with an unexplained acute laminitis episode, so we are trying to get him through this episode and back on the road to good health. We have NO idea why he became laminitic.
I can't find a vet that will work with me yet to test and treat according to Dr. Kellon's protocol - and this is the only way I will proceed. So, my search continues to find a vet and then retest in a few months once his laminitis clears up.
Marianne
Northern IL
Jan2012




.

Hi Sherry,
Glad to see you here, I know of your work with oils. We are huge YLEO users as well. I live in Belvidere. We tried using Badger Vet out of Janesville and they insist on dex supression, another vet out of Beloit, I am afraid, might not be sold on Dr. Kellon's protocol. My last shot is Dr. Sugden out of Byron. Although, I just recently heard of a vet in WI by the name of Dr. Andrea McGowan - haven't tried her yet.
Any recommendations you can make will be very greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Marianne
Belvidere, Northern Illinois
Jan2012

Marianne; My main vet, Dr. John Hanover, will service your area
depending upon his overall schedule. It might be a slightly higher trip
charge, but he’s used to working with Dr. Kellon’s protocols.
Call 847-997-4401 during normal hours and discuss directly with him.
Much easier than trailering in! Good luck on your results-

Sherry LaMarche
08/08 So. Wis.

From: Marianne Henze
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 8:14 PM
To: EquineCushings@...
Subject: [EquineCushings] Psyllium and IR and Questions Re: IR Calculator and Conventional Ranges


Hi Sherry,
Glad to see you here, I know of your work with oils. We are huge YLEO users as well. I live in Belvidere. We tried using Badger Vet out of Janesville and they insist on dex supression, another vet out of Beloit, I am afraid, might not be sold on Dr. Kellon's protocol. My last shot is Dr. Sugden out of Byron. Although, I just recently heard of a vet in WI by the name of Dr. Andrea McGowan - haven't tried her yet.
Any recommendations you can make will be very greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Marianne
Belvidere, Northern Illinois
Jan2012

--- In mailto:EquineCushings%40yahoogroups.com, "Sherry Lamarche" <sherrylamarche@...> wrote:

Marianne; I have a few vets that I work with in Northern
Illinois, where are you located?
Sherry LaMarche

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sherry,
Thanks very much for the info. I know of him and do know that he comes down to this area as several of my friends use him and are very happy with him.
I'll give it a go!
Marianne
Belvidere, Northern IL
Jan2012

Margaret Rogers from Maple Park, (815) 827-4259 or (815) 827-3333. She knows the protocal. She does cover a large area, so getting her can sometimes be an issue.

If the vet you're getting has to travel some distance from his clinic, be sure he has a centrifuge with him or you take the samples back to the clinic for the staff to process and he can be on his way. You don't want unprocessed samples, though chilled, sitting in his truck all day. You do not want to trailer your horse for these tests as it will skew the results.

Nice to see Dr. Hanover has changed his thinking. A few years ago he was very adament about the dex test being far superior to eACTH.

Cheryl - Hinckley, IL
ECHK Support Team

Margaret Rogers from Maple Park, (815) 827-4259 or (815) 827-3333. She knows the protocal. She does cover a large area, so getting her can sometimes be an issue.

Cheryl,
"Whew" can you hear me breathing a HUGE sigh of relief. I know of Margaret Rogers and will contact her. I never thought of "me" driving the sample back to her office and going from there. Excellent idea!!!
Thank you so much for the info. I am very grateful!
Marianne
Belvidere, Northern IL
Jan2012

-

Margaret Rogers from Maple Park, (815) 827-4259 or (815) 827-3333. She knows the protocal. She does cover a large area, so getting her can sometimes be an issue.

Cheryl - Hinckley, IL
ECHK Support Team

Cheryl,
HUGE (((HUGS))) and thanks to you!!! Just had an awesome conversation with Margaret Rogers and LOVED HER!!! She is in complete agreement with the protocol here and is going to come out to draw blood after Scout's laminitic episode is settled down.
Plus she has given me the "what we need to do now" information to get him more foot comfortable and next steps.
Words just can't tell you how grateful I am for the recommendation!
What an immense burden that is lifted to finally have a vet that is on board!
Blessing to you!
Marianne
Eddie, Scout and Diesel too!
Northern IL
Jan2012

You're welcome!

Could you share the info she gave you for "foot" comfort?

Know you're filling out a history, but did anyone suggest hoof photos?

Cheryl - Hinckley, IL
ECHK Support Team
10/07

Cheryl,
I will be happy to share what she told us to do - should I put it under a different subject line since we are a little off topic of this subject line?
And yes, case history will be up this weekend and I will have some photos taken of his hooves tomorrow and get those up as well.
Many thanks again!
Marianne
Eddie, Scout, and Diesel too!
Northern IL
Jan2012

Grand idea!

Cheryl - Hinckley, IL
ECHK Support Team
10/07