Hi all,
 
Apart from Pauli's eye problem, things have been going very well here.. until yesterday.
She's totally down ( = depressed) , lame on her front leg (left) and I don't know what to do anymore..
 
It started on Monday afternoon when I noticed she didn't come running to the fence when I arrived to feed hay. My Friesian was already at the gate, whereas Pauli came from the wintershed rather slowly. Being the #1 dominant horse, normally she's always first to put her claim on the food.
On Tuesday afternoon I noticed a slight irregularity in her walk, felt her hooves: slightly warm at the coronary band, hoof was normal temp, no pulse noticeable. Called the vet whether I should put her on bute. Before I spoke to the vet, I felt again: no clear pulse, but a slight warmth from the coronary band UPWARDS to the ankle joint.  I thought that she may have tripped a bit and hurt the tendons. When the vet called me, I told him and he advised me against giving bute. Just to keep het in the shed and let her rest.  Yesterday (Wednesday) she was very slow and tired-looking and in the evening she could hardly walk. I decided to give her some bute but she refused to eat it. This morning things are really bad: she does not want to move, even under pressure ( trying to get her to make a step forward) and looks really down in the dumbs- eyes are dull and she has a sad demeanour. I am now waiting for the vet to come in.
 
What's happening??  We have had an unusually mild winter - almost like spring time, until about two weeks ago when we had lots of snow all of a sudden and a really sharp drop in temps to unusual lows of minus 20-23 Celcius.  When it became so cold, we put in a very thick layer of straw in the stall , put on blankets. Both horses felt snug and warm.
I'm thinkingout loud: could it be that with Pauli's IR and the fact that 'movement' came to a halt ( too much snow in the arena, but they are free to walk about if the want to), the combination of possibly higher glucose/insulin due to lack of movement and the bitter cold for more than a week, could have induced winter aminitis due to vasoconstriction?
 
What can I do?  I'm sure the vet will put her on bute and Ascal, but is there something else I can do?
Please help.... I'm in dispair seeing my girl suffer this way.

Marianne ( *Jannepauli*)
EC June, 2011
The Netherlands

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  When it became so cold, we put in a very thick layer of straw in the stall ,

Hi Marianne,


Is she eating the bedding at all?


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

No, she took a few bites when I had just put it into the stall but left it at that..
Oh! I'm sick to my stomach about this.. still waiting for the vet to arrive..

Marianne | The Netherlands | EC 2011
Pauli's daily progress: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Marianne/

When was she last trimmed? The sudden onset in one foot speaks to abscess.

Assuming you have not started the jiaogulan yet?

If it is abscess, the bute will just slow things down and you don't want that. Make sure she is drinking well.

Soaking the foot would be in order if abscess is suspected. If you don't have a soaking boot, ask your vet for a large IV bag.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

Is she lame in only one foot or more? If only one maybe an abscess??

Where I live it's been very cold and my PPID horse wears bandages all the time to keep his legs warm and increase circulation. It gets VERY cold when they stand in snow! He also wears thick rugs to keep warm.

My farrier was here this week to shoe mye other horse, and she said remember to keep an eye on Mirald now, this is peak laminitis time. Which is true, this is the time of year he first got laminitis and I've already increased his pergolide. She said that she actually sees and hears about more cases of laminitis this time of year than in the summer or fall.

Here in Sweden and Norway where we have the coldest winter months in January and February, often with snow so no grass is to be found, it is a bit of a mystery why they get laminitis.

I'm thinking it could be a combination of hormonal changes due to the cold and decreased circulation in feet. And also less exersice.

Since it suddenly got cold and your horse was not really "prepared" that might have acutely worsened his IR?

Fingers crossed it's just an absess. :)

/Maria
Sweden
March 2011

Here in Sweden and Norway where we have the coldest winter months in January and February, often with snow so no grass is to be found, it is a bit of a mystery why they get laminitis.

It happens here,too. But often when one watches closely the horses can be seen pawing/nosing through the snow.They are going after the roots as much as the stressed grass. High sugars.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Nancy" <threecatfarm@...> wrote:

When was she last trimmed? The sudden onset in one foot speaks to abscess.

Assuming you have not started the jiaogulan yet?

If it is abscess, the bute will just slow things down and you don't want that. Make sure she is drinking well.

Soaking the foot would be in order if abscess is suspected. If you don't have a soaking boot, ask your vet for a large IV bag.

She was trimmed exactly two weeks ago (she's trimmed every 6-7 weeks) - the only things is that although my own farrier was present at the time, the actual trimming was done by his assistant . I was holding the Friesian at that time, so I have not seen absolutely everything he did, but the hooves looked good as usual and my own farrier did a thourough check after the trimming.
I have no idea if it would be an abcess - seems unlikely: no heat, no pulse..? I do have a soaking bag if necessary.

One thing came to mind, maybe this means something, maybe not. Just before the cold set in here, all of a sudden Pauli starting shedding her wintercoat like crazy.. does that mean something? She had a normal thick wintercoat and from one day to the other, so much hair came off that I could have refilled our pillows.. That's also why I put on the blankets when it got so cold.

Marianne | The Netherlands | EC 2011
Pauli's daily progress: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Marianne/

--- In EquineCushings@..., "mirald82" <rolfo46@...> wrote:

I'm thinking it could be a combination of hormonal changes due to the cold and decreased circulation in feet. And also less exersice.

Since it suddenly got cold and your horse was not really "prepared" that might have acutely worsened his IR?

My thoughts too....

Marianne | The Netherlands | EC 2011
Pauli's daily progress: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Marianne/

--- In EquineCushings@..., Jannepauli <jannepauli@...> wrote:

Hi all,

She's totally down .....
 

......about two weeks ago when we had lots of snow all of a sudden and a really sharp drop in temps to unusual lows of minus 20-23 Celcius. 

Marianne,

Would APF help?

Good luck with her, it's so scary and sad when they are in pain like that.
Laura K. Chappie & Beau
N.IL. Nov.2011

They can surprise you.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

I'd like to have a NICE surprise for a change...

Here are some links of short films made this afternoon to give an impression.

Poor, sad girl..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzro9rD1GvE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1c6_VJelI4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL4YON8elgw

Marianne | The Netherlands | EC 2011
Pauli's daily progress: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Marianne/

Following my earlier post: the Vet agrees that it might be a combination of the severe cold and her IR. Although one cannot be 100% sure at this point, he does not think an abcess is at play here. He said: pmostprobably the early onset of laminitis.
I'm stocked up with bute (Pro Dynam), Ascal 600 and he wants to add Tranquigel.
No more additional feeds, just hay.
I'm not sure if there is much more we can do right now..

Marianne | The Netherlands | EC 2011
Pauli's daily progress: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Marianne/

--- In EquineCushings@..., "jannepauli" <jannepauli@...> wrote:

Following my earlier post: the Vet agrees that it might be a combination of the severe cold and her IR.

HI Marianne,
She is so darn cute!
Do you have boots for her? Can you warm up her lower legs/feet( wool socks, leg warmers, shipping boots, hoof boots etc.)? That can be really helpful with cold-induced laminitis.
Hang in there!

Cheryl and Ollie
Newbury, MA
Jan. 2004
EC list support

Yes, she is a beautiful and striking girl. And huge, as you can see comparing to my Friesian. Standing next to her we're midgets.
As you can see from the films, we have removed most of the snow from the arena, so she does not stand in the snow. Besides, she hardly leaves the shed where the temperatures are much higher than outside - even when temps dropped to minus 23C, the water in their drinking bowl did not freeze over.
The sand in the arena is soft and supple, mainly because we had overturned the sand and put in a draining system just before the weather turned. If you're interested, check out our website on how to build a wintershed: http://www.hoemaakikeenschuilstal.nl/

Anyway, back on topic: I donot have boots, but will be getting some legwarmers for her today. I realise that this may not help for the hooves but I guess when the legs are being kept warm, the bloodflow will be kept going in a way. We'll see..

I was wondering: might APF help her - I hate having to give all thos chemical medications like bute, ascal600, tranquigel or even ace.. :(

Marianne | The Netherlands | EC 2011
Pauli's daily progress: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Marianne/

--- In EquineCushings@..., "jannepauli" <jannepauli@...> wrote:
.

I was wondering: might APF help her - I hate having to give all thos chemical medications like bute, ascal600, tranquigel or even ace.. :(

Marianne | The Netherlands | EC 2011
Pauli's daily progress: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Marianne/

Marianne,
I did read about a study done with some IR horses that had trouble with winter laminitis. They gave them APF and did not see any cold related pain during the study. I think the highest dose was 10ml morn & night. I have Chappie on 6ml morn & 4ml at night and he has had a paIn free winter so far. Good luck with her, she is beautiful.
Laura K. Chappie & Beau
N.IL. Nov. 2011

Anyway, back on topic: I donot have boots, but will be getting some legwarmers for her today. I realise that this may not help for the hooves but I guess when the legs are being kept warm, the bloodflow will be kept going in a way. We'll see..

I was wondering: might APF help her - I hate having to give all thos chemical medications like bute, ascal600, tranquigel or even ace.. :(

Marianne,
Laura's suggestion to try APF is spot on - I would definitely give that a try. I'm thinking it may not work if you're giving bute, though. Hopefully someone else will chime in if that's the case! Personally, I would not use bute unless the pain was severe enough for her to go off her feed. Even then, I'd most likely try other things first. Another supplement to consider would be ALCAR - there should be info in the files and you'd get lots of feedback using an archive search. I'd also still put her in boots, even with your current set-up. It really couldn't hurt and may well be very helpful.

Cheryl and Ollie
Newbury, MA
Jan. 2004
EC list support

Cheryl,

maybe I'm wrong but I would consider hoof boots if the sole would be sensitive. And this isn't the case at all.
I got her a pair of stable boots ( look like transportation protectors) with a soft, thick and warm lining inside. These boots cover the heel and part of the hoof, so should give some help in keeping it warm.

Yes, I will consider getting APF as that is one of the few things that are recommended on this list that can be bought in Holland. Unless one of the experienced guru's tell me not to.
I'll wait patiently for one of them to chime in..

I feel I must give her bute right now - she's getting two satches a day for now and she still is in severe pain. I realise that - if in the end the present situation turns out to be an abcess afterall, bute will not help.

Marianne | The Netherlands | EC 2011
Pauli's daily progress: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Marianne/

maybe I'm wrong but I would consider hoof boots if the sole would be sensitive. And this isn't the case at all.

People who are concerned about keeping their horses' legs and feet warm use hoof boots with wool socks inside,as one means of doing so.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

jannepauli wrote:

I looked at your videos and Pauli is a very pretty girl.

Anyway, back on topic: I donot have boots, but will be getting some
legwarmers for her today. I realise that this may not help for the
hooves but I guess when the legs are being kept warm, the bloodflow
will be kept going in a way. We'll see..

I wouldn't say for sure - but I don't believe leg warmers and boots offer the same protection. It is said on here time and time again how much boots and pads have helped. Why do you have a blanket on her but nothing on her legs and feet?

I was wondering: might APF help her - I hate having to give all thos
chemical medications like bute, ascal600, tranquigel or even ace.. :(

If you hate doing it, then stop. At least try the APF and the herbs.

Put some boots and leg warmers on that girl.

Elva and Angel Satin
in NM/June 2004

Hi Marianne

Get rid of the bute. Get the APF. Put on the boots. Keep the leg warmers.

Nite......


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...