Scout – Laminitis has Subsided– Next Steps?


Marianne Henze
 

Hi All,
Scout's acute laminitis episode seems to have subsided (it began January 23rd). He is eating well, hooves are cool, his feet are not tender to walk on, and, thankfully, he seems quite back to normal.

Looking ahead, I would welcome some feedback about the next steps:

1. Exercise: Over the last week, we have started to hand walk and ground drive him. We take him out for about 20 minutes, 2-3 times a day, He is VERY happy to be back to some kind of exercise. We have been keeping him at a walk, however, he would much rather be trotting! He continues to wear Sole Mate pads on his feet for protection and will be trimmed this weekend. Is it okay for him to be trotting, or should we keep him at a walk?

2. Trim. He is due for a trim this weekend. His hooves are cool and there is no tenderness – is it okay to go ahead with his trim? After his trim, we are planning on putting on IAEP wraps on his feet for added protection.

3. Testing: As it has almost been a month since the onset of the laminitis episode, is it okay to now go ahead and have his blood tests done?
I will have insulin, glucose, and per Dr. Kellon – leptin tests done as well. Should I also have test done for Cushings at this time too?

4. Lastly, the vet had us put him on Remission stating the extra Magnesium and Chromium would be helpful during the laminitic episode. Should we keep him on that? His NRC requirement is only 8 grams per day and based on our hay test and how many pounds he receives (which is 16 pounds), he is getting upwards of 24 grams per day. Is the Remission a necessary supplement at this time?

Thanks in advance for all the support and direction that is offered here. Truly, you are all wonderful!
Marianne
Eddie, Scout and Diesel too!
Northern IL
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/Marianne%20in%20Northern%20IL/


annettescherr@ymail.com
 

Great News Marianne! So glad to hear that Diesel is up and 'at em again. And he went from down to trotting around! Amazing!

Annette & Sparky IR Mustang
member since Jan 2011
http://flic.kr/s/aHsjvUiGq3
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/sfedit?path=/__THIS%20IS%20CASE%20\;
HISTORY%205/Sparky%20/Sparky.doc


Marianne Henze
 

Thanks Annette! It is a happy day. I am grateful to this group and Dr. Kellon for sharing with me the knowledge to be able to help him (Psst - actually it is Scout that is better - but Diesel says hi!).
All the best,
Marianne
Eddie, Scout, and Diesel too!
Northern IL
Jan2012
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/Marianne%20in%20Northern%20IL/


Great News Marianne!

Annette & Sparky IR Mustang


covicp
 

Marianne that is AWESOME news about Scout!
Tell Lea and Eddie oh an Diesel too, Hi from me :)

Peggy
Nowee, Oreo RIP 6/2011
Montana
November 2010

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Marianne Henze" <henzefarm@...> wrote:

Hi All,
Scout's acute laminitis episode seems to have subsided (it began January 23rd). He is eating well, hooves are cool, his feet are not tender to walk on, and, thankfully, he seems quite back to normal.
Marianne
Eddie, Scout and Diesel too!
Northern IL
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/Marianne%20in%20Northern%20IL/


Marianne Henze
 

Peggy, thanks so much! How do you know Lea and Eddie - that's so cool - I will be sure to tell her! And Diesel always gets a hug (he is my mini hinny!).
Marianne
Eddie, Scout, and Diesel too!
Northern IL
Jan2012
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/Marianne%20in%20Northern%20IL/

--- In EquineCushings@..., "covicp" <covicp@...> wrote:

Marianne that is AWESOME news about Scout!
Tell Lea and Eddie oh an Diesel too, Hi from me :)

Peggy
Nowee, Oreo RIP 6/2011
Montana
November 2010

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Marianne Henze" <henzefarm@> wrote:

Hi All,
Scout's acute laminitis episode seems to have subsided (it began January 23rd). He is eating well, hooves are cool, his feet are not tender to walk on, and, thankfully, he seems quite back to normal.
Marianne
Eddie, Scout and Diesel too!
Northern IL
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/Marianne%20in%20Northern%20IL/


Nancy C
 

Hi Marianne

Excellent news! Excellent work!

Before letting him get to rambunctious, I'd review with your farrier/trimmer where his new growth is, how much there is, any painful steps or spots. Ask him/her to review Scout walking and trotting. I'm sure you are well qualified with what you see, but it helps to get another set of eyes that haven't seen him every day. His trim should go ahead in harmony with continued realignment and good growth. If you don't have at minimum third of good tight wall growth I'd be careful about trotting. It's hard because he obviously feels good and the exercise will help his IR.

Just to be clear - we're talking about working from the ground for now.

I'd go ahead with testing if he were here. Just know that cold snaps can skew the insulin picture. Doesn't mean you shouldn't test, just that it may make the insulin picture look worse. I can't remember if Dr Kellon spoke to Leptin and cold weather, but if Leptin is not affected by weather like insulin, then you hopefully will be okay to get a clearer picture.

Hope I'm not confusing the issue. I need to get labs done soon as well, and am thinking out loud.

I *think* you are benefiting from extra magnesium in the Remission. Need to go look at your hay info specifically calcium to magnesium to be sure but, if so, you can do it less expensively with feed grade magnesium. If it looked like he needed the chromium you could add that back later. Most horses don't need the chromium as it is abundant in most hays.

Good job!

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Marianne Henze" <henzefarm@...> wrote:

Hi All,
Scout's acute laminitis episode seems to have subsided (it began January 23rd). He is eating well, hooves are cool, his feet are not tender to walk on, and, thankfully, he seems quite back to normal.


Marianne Henze
 

Nancy,
Thanks so very much for your time and all the information. I feel more confident moving ahead with the next steps!


Before letting him get to rambunctious, I'd review with your farrier/trimmer where his new growth is, how much there is, any painful steps or spots.
He is getting trimmed this weekend and I will be sure we are going in the right direction. Luckily my equine podiatrist is my daughter, however, we are having another equine podiatrist come out to do his IAEP wraps. I will have him take a thorough look.


Just to be clear - we're talking about working from the ground for now.
Absolutely - just ground work.


Just know that cold snaps can skew the insulin picture. Doesn't mean you shouldn't test, just that it may make the insulin picture look worse.
I will watch the weather for more consistent warmer temperatures and then set up his testing. I still having reading to do in the Files section anyway to get my testing know-how in order.


Hope I'm not confusing the issue.
Not at all, you have been crystal clear with all the info - thank you for that!


I *think* you are benefiting from extra magnesium in the Remission. Need to go look at your hay info specifically calcium to magnesium to be sure
Agree, agree.

Good job!
I take very little credit - I owe all of you and Dr. Kellon a huge thanks!
Have a great weekend!

Marianne
Eddie, Scout, and Diesel too!
Northern IL
Jan2012
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/Marianne%20in%20Northern%20IL/


Elva J Mico
 

Marianne Henze wrote:
He is getting trimmed this weekend and I will be sure we are going in
the right direction. Luckily my equine podiatrist is my daughter, however, we are having another equine podiatrist come out to do his IAEP wraps. I will have him take a thorough look.
I am just wondering since he is doing much better why you are doing the IAEP wraps. Can these be easily removed in case you need to trim or check the hoof in a week or two?

Also I was wondering if this is something that the other Marianne could use on Pauli. I haven't really talked to anyone who has used these and while their marketing sounds good, has anyone used them and can give actual results?

Not trying to argue here, just curious as to why these aren't more common in usage.

Thank you.

Elva & Angel Satin
Corrales NM
6-2004


Marianne Henze
 


I am just wondering since he is doing much better why you are doing the
IAEP wraps. Can these be easily removed in case you need to trim or
check the hoof in a week or two?
Elva,

We decided to do the wraps because it will give him added stability and protection from the hard ground as he continues to heal. It is still quite cold here and our ground is rock solid. Once you put the wraps on, they are easily removed by nippers, but once you take them off, you can't put them back on again. So a new pair would have to
be applied after a trim. We are prepared to do several sets if need be.



Also I was wondering if this is something that the other Marianne could
use on Pauli.

Boy, I'm not sure it the wraps would help Pauli. It sounds like she is in quite a tough spot right now working everything out. She could contact KC LaPierre or his wife Robyn and see if there is anything they could do to advise her. There number is 800-351-2714. They are great folks and very willing to help out. That is all I could recommend.
All the best,

Marianne in Northern IL
Eddie, Scout, and Diesel too!
Jan2012
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/Marianne%20in%20Northern%20IL/


Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Hi Marianne,

I just came from the IAEP (KC LaPierre) site and I am attaching a link to their energetics hoof ware. Is this what you are referring to when you say IAEP wraps?

http://www.appliedequinepodiatry.org/perfecthoofwear/index.html

If possible, and I know I am asking a lot :-), but would you consider sharing some hoof photos before and then after with the applied IAEP wraps?

Thank you,

Kathy Brinkerhoff

SE/WI 2007

*lifelong student of the hoof*

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Marianne Henze" <henzefarm@...> wrote:


We decided to do the wraps because it will give him added stability and protection from the hard ground as he continues to heal.


Marianne Henze
 

Is this what you are referring to when you say IAEP wraps?

Hi Kathy,
Nope, those are actually KC's "inserts" that can be used with the wraps for further protection, traction and achieving higher performance. We are just doing the wraps themselves with no inserts to just give more stability and protection from the hard ground. Scout will not be doing much work except lots of hand walking, so we don't really need the inserts.
Here is the link to just the wraps - this is the kit we purchased:

http://prostores2.carrierzone.com/servlet/equinepodiatrynet/Detail?no=235



If possible, and I know I am asking a lot :-), but would you consider sharing some hoof photos before and then after with the applied IAEP wraps?
No problem, you are not asking too much at all. He is going to be trimmed this weekend and we are going to take pictures right after his trim prior to the wraps being put on. We expect to take them off in 2-3 weeks thinking he may need a touch up trim after that. So, once they come off, we will upload pictures of the "after the wraps." I can also include some pictures of the wraps being applied.

Marianne in Northern IL
Eddie, Scout, and Diesel too!
Jan2012
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/Marianne%20in%20Northern%20IL/


Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Marianne.....Thank you!!

Kathy Brinkerhoff

SE/WI 2007

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Marianne Henze" <henzefarm@...> wrote:

Here is the link to just the wraps - this is the kit we purchased:

http://prostores2.carrierzone.com/servlet/equinepodiatrynet/Detail?no=235

No problem, you are not asking too much at all. He is going to be trimmed this weekend and we are going to take pictures right after his trim prior to the wraps being put on. We expect to take them off in 2-3 weeks thinking he may need a touch up trim after that. So, once they come off, we will upload pictures of the "after the wraps." I can also include some pictures of the wraps being applied.


Elva J Mico
 

Marianne Henze wrote:
Nope, those are actually KC's "inserts" that can be used with the
wraps for further protection, traction and achieving higher
performance. We are just doing the wraps themselves with no inserts
to just give more stability and protection from the hard ground.
Scout will not be doing much work except lots of hand walking, so we
don't really need the inserts. Here is the link to just the wraps -
this is the kit we purchased:
Okay, just for my own curiosity, why are these wraps better than foam pads and boots? If they are not re-usable doesn't it get kind of expensive? And how much protection does this wrap actually give? I am so curious about these because I've never seen them used and never heard of them. And, I think maybe they need to be in my tool box. The web site doesn't really give that much information. Of course, I am wondering if they would help with the contracted tendons.

Elva & Angel Satin
Corrales, NM
6-2004


Linda <PapBallou@...>
 


Okay, just for my own curiosity, why are these wraps better than foam
pads and boots? If they are not re-usable doesn't it get kind of
expensive?
Elva -

While KC would probably argue the point, these are very much like casts that many have been using for a number of years.

He has done something different and has apparently copyrighted his technique.

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Marianne Henze
 

Curiosity is good! Initially we put on Sole Mate pads and duct taped them on. During his acute laminitic episode, he was VERY tender-footed. So we put them on during the day and off at night so his feet could dry out. (Just let me say that I will never be without the Sole Mates here - they are a must in my emergency box!).
Now that his feet seem to be no longer tender, we are moving to the wraps. Yes, we could do boots, however, we still have ice here and I was concerned about his sure-footedness.
KC believes that the wraps, inserts, and sole mate pads don't have any rebound. By that I mean, when the horse goes through the phases of the stride, no energy is delivered back up into the hoof. It is dispersed and additionally, there is no pin-point pressure with the sole mate pads (it evenly distributes the forces). (Thanks to my daughter for this explanation!).
Plus, I didn't want to buy boots until his trims were under control. If he is going to be needing trims every two weeks, I don't want to invest in boots until he is back to a more regular trim schedule.
Scout is definitely a candidate for boots - just using the wraps in the interim for protection and stability until he is back into a regular trim schedule and we can fit him properly. We will probably use RX Easy Boot and they are a lot of $$$.
Thanks for asking - hope that answers your questions.

Marianne in Northern IL
Eddie, Scout, and Diesel too!
ERICJan2012
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/Marianne%20in%20Northern%20IL/



-


Okay, just for my own curiosity, why are these wraps better than foam
pads and boots? If they are not re-usable doesn't it get kind of
expensive? And how much protection does this wrap actually give? I am so
curious about these because I've never seen them used and never heard of
them. And, I think maybe they need to be in my tool box. The web site
doesn't really give that much information. Of course, I am wondering if
they would help with the contracted tendons.

Elva & Angel Satin
Corrales, NM
6-2004


shabbonawoman
 

I used them years ago in SoftRides. It was in the dead of a very bad winter. I had a pair for the day; they were taken off in the stall when fed and another pair was put in the boots for night turnout. That would give them a chance to rebound overnite. I and the horse thought they were great and gave them two thumbs up.

Thanks for the information,

Cheryl - No. IL
ECHK Support Team

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Marianne Henze" <henzefarm@...> wrote:
Initially we put on Sole Mate pads and duct taped them on. During his acute laminitic episode, he was VERY tender-footed.
Marianne in Northern IL
Eddie, Scout, and Diesel too!
ERICJan2012
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/Marianne%20in%20Northern%20IL/


shabbonawoman
 

Oops, what I forgot to add is that you could see from the impression in the foam, what area of the foot they were loading or unloading, plus if one hoof was loading more than the other. Once the pad rebounded, the impression was gone.

Cheryl - No. IL
ECHK Support Team
10/07

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Cheryl" <shabbonawoman@...> wrote:
That would give them a chance to rebound overnite. >


Elva J Mico
 

Marianne Henze wrote:
Curiosity is good! Initially we put on Sole Mate pads and duct taped
Hi Marianne,
Thank you so much for responding, I always want to check things out that may help my little Beau.

Elva & Angel Satin
in NM
6-04