Rachel,

Stop running! Get the hay tested and in the meantime soak it or feed haylage.

We need that case history.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001

Hi Rachel,
We recommend soaking hay for 1 hour in cold water, or 1/2 hour in hot water.
Linda

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Linda in MA, Peanut in CT - 09.07





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Rachel,

i did 1 hour and there was no improvement, then 5, then 8 - he improved at 8

Can you give us a time line?
For how many meals did you try soaking(draining) your hay for an hour?
What improvements did you see as soon as you began soaking at 8 hours?
Is it certain the improvements were from the 8 hour soaks? Or could they have been that enough 'soaking' days had gone by to allow the improvements to happen?
I'm asking because usually there is nothing to be gained by soaking longer than an hour.

Sorry for all the questions, but the devil is often in the details.

but still wasnt enough to get him through founder and ready for the exercise he depsterately needed.

By this you mean he was still very uncomfortable,even with the soaking?
What else were you doing to help him at this time?

I then did 12 hr with a water change (on the day one obviously as im not going to sit up all night) and then rinsing throughly twice.

For how many meals did you do this?
What improvements,if any,did you notice?

Now doing an hour of work

I've managed to get myself lost here. Do you mean that the above was all in the past,then, and that he is sound now,except going over stones?
He has had enough time to grown new feet after foundering?

what are your oppinions on rye

Rye has the potential to be high in sugar and not recommended.

http://www.safergrass.org/pdf/safergrasses.pdf


It will be really helpful to see your case history as soon as you have time to get it done.

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=42879/*http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5

Hang in and we'll get this sorted out.

Thanks.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

thankyou - ive just had another delivery of 10 bales of greener than i would like hay and im desperately trying to source some yellow stalkier stuff is this necessary?

I wouldn't risk grazing. Sampling for safety is really a waste of time because grass is a living tissue and will be constantly changing. Late in the season when the grass is mature you might be able to get away with it but with this history I sure wouldn't graze spring through July.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001

<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Rachel%20and%20Mickey/>

Hi, Rachel-

Hang in there, and remember to breathe!

First of all, reviewing Mickey's case history (good job on that!), I would say the fat pads, laminitis, and breed all scream "IR". (at 9 years old, theoretically not the right age for Cushings, but some have been diagnosed as young as 10)

Here is the lowdown on the Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise:

Diagnosis: Ideally, get the bloodwork done. Single, non-fasting (hay only) blood pull, quiet barn, no vigorous exercise beforehand. Use a red-top or serum separator tube. Chill, spin and separate as soon as possible, send to Liphook on ice (Liphook is THE lab in the UK for Cushings and IR)

Diet: Mickey should definitely be on the emergency diet for now, then we can graduate to balancing minerals to the hay once you get your hay/haylage source straightened out, and get an analysis.

For now: soaked hay (as you are doing - although I would soak for a shorter period of time); use Speedi-beet or similar to get the following supplements in:

1 tablespoon iodized salt (start slowly and work your way up with this - some equines don't like a lot of salt in their food)

1/2 tsp = 1.5 grams of magnesium oxide, or some magnesium (carbonate, citrate etc) that will give 1.5 grams elemental magnesium;

2 oz freshly ground flax, or ground, stabilised flax, or 1 ounce flax oil (same as food grade linseed oil, or ground linseed)

1200 IU of vitamin E, in capsules with soy oil (Vitamin E needs to be combined with oil for absorption)

With regards to the Sure Limb: Here is what the website says:

Surelimb is a broad spectrum vitamin and mineral supplement specifically formulated for breeding stock and horses in intense work. Surelimb provides optimal levels of vitamins, minerals and amino acids needed for maintenance of a healthy Musculo-skeletal system. Ideal for fast growing weanlings at risk of developmental problems or to balance the diet of horses fed straight cereals.

http://www.medicanimal.com/product/~sure-limb/~product_id=4469/~category_id=MA-EQUINE/~root_category_id=MA-EQUINE

I couldn't find a list of ingredients, but just the description makes me believe that this product is not good for Mickey: it is for performance/breeding/growing horses on lots of grain. I would guess the mineral balances are way out of whack for him, and there is the potential for sugary flavourings.

Please stop the Sure Limb - it raises a big red flag.

Even more of a red flag is grass: NO GRASS. You are correct to be concerned about switching hays, but grass is much, much more dangerous for an IR pony.

Here is the link to the Emergency Diet (in the Start Here folder):

http://tinyurl.com/ya4neyr

Excercise is the best insulin buster there is, but only if your pony is not footsore. If Mickey is sore, forced exercise will damage his delicate lamina that are compromised by the IR.

Trim: This is very important. Any chance of taking some pictures so we can review his trim?

Here is the link to taking good hoof pics:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHoof/files/%202How%20to%20take%20hoof%20photos.htm/


There is a ton of information here, and it can get overwhelming. All of us were overwhelmed at the beginning, but you would be surprised at how much easier it all becomes. You will soon be the Pro from Dover at healthy horse-keeping practices, and laminitis prevention, and your ponies will bloom with health. In the meantime, take it one day at a time; read the info when you can; and start the emergency diet. (Short version: breathe; no grass or sure limb; hug your ponies)

Jaini(BVSc)Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC09
EC moderator

<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Rachel%20and%20Mickey/>