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Help Please, I am New to Site- Have Laminitic Gelding
Mandy Woods
Hi Linda,
I"m playing catch up because of a sick computer.
The reason we dont want Roo back on grass is because his Insulin was 39.95. We consider '10' the cut off. His symptoms are IR also so to be very safe its best to NOT let him graze. Some things you may not know about grass is the sugar is highest around noon. Sugar goes up and down the plant as the sun goes up and down. **IF** you had a horse that was safe on grass, the best time to graze would be 10pm to 4am! If you choose to put a muzzle on him, tape the hole shut and weave something in the slates. You may have to double halter him if he can get the muzzle off. They are creative!
Did you find the proxies?
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003
I"m playing catch up because of a sick computer.
The reason we dont want Roo back on grass is because his Insulin was 39.95. We consider '10' the cut off. His symptoms are IR also so to be very safe its best to NOT let him graze. Some things you may not know about grass is the sugar is highest around noon. Sugar goes up and down the plant as the sun goes up and down. **IF** you had a horse that was safe on grass, the best time to graze would be 10pm to 4am! If you choose to put a muzzle on him, tape the hole shut and weave something in the slates. You may have to double halter him if he can get the muzzle off. They are creative!
Did you find the proxies?
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003
Linda <PapBallou@...>
I could not find the VPI proxie papers that Dr. K mentioned and I would really like to read them. Please tell me how to find them. Is it in any of the "Files"?Hi LInda -
<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/Insulin%20Resistance/>
You will find it almost at the end of the file - IR Pony Field Study or something like that.
Hay is safe as far as s/s! No soaking needed! .
My hay analysis came back and if I am reading it correctly I think it is alright . It shows NFC= 10.2%, Starch= 1.3% , WSC= 8.3% and Esc= 4.6%
My major concern now is that my vet is transitioning Roo back to pasture a few hours a day...a small area of weeds/bermuda grass that is eaten down by a pony all day and then Roo is turned out in late afternoon for a few hours.I'll let Mandy continue this conversation with you since she's a bit more up to speed on Roo's history, but with that insulin, your horse can't be out on pasture without taking a huge risk for laminitis. A muzzle that is taped shut so he can't sneak any grass can work so he can spend time out and about. You need to control the amount of s/s in his diet, and with grass, regardless of spring/summer/whatever, different environmental factors are changing the s/s levels all the time.
Unfortunately.
Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004
roodle20
Mandy,
I could not find the VPI proxie papers that Dr. K mentioned and I would really like to read them. Please tell me how to find them. Is it in any of the "Files"?
My hay analysis came back and if I am reading it correctly I think it is alright . It shows NFC= 10.2%, Starch= 1.3% , WSC= 8.3% and Esc= 4.6% .
Does that mean it is safe? I posted the analysis to Roo's case history so you guys can assess the numbers for me. (this is such a terrifying and humbling experience but I am trying to get up to speed and learn what I need to know). I can't believe how wonderful this group is and how kind you all are.
So glad for the warning about Triple Crown pellets. I will wait to go to ODTBC if I need to after you review my hay analysis.
My major concern now is that my vet is transitioning Roo back to pasture a few hours a day...a small area of weeds/bermuda grass that is eaten down by a pony all day and then Roo is turned out in late afternoon for a few hours. the plan is to have him on it overnight (b/o is good to me about the night turnout as I think that is when sugar is lowest). The theory is that the Spring grass is dead now and the summer Bermuda grasses are coming in and that they are lower in sugar. Indeed, Roo was on that type of grass all last summer and Fall with no acute laminitis flaring up.
My secondary concern: I want to be sure there is no indication of PPID. The Cornell test showed ACTH = 16.5 . May I assume that is a safe level? The Leptin result came in - so now the blood test results are: Leptin 2.74, Insulin 39.95, ACTH 16.5.
Also, I know that the minerals are critical and I would be happy to pay for Dr. Kellon or you to give me a complete feeding plan. Can you advise me how to arrange for that?
Roo seems happy and pasture sound now, but when he was hurting, I felt all the time like my horse was on fire and I needed to put the fire out.....I will do anything necessary to prevent it happening again.
Linda House for Roo
Alabama
Joined April 2012
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Linda%20House_Alabama_Apr%202012/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I could not find the VPI proxie papers that Dr. K mentioned and I would really like to read them. Please tell me how to find them. Is it in any of the "Files"?
My hay analysis came back and if I am reading it correctly I think it is alright . It shows NFC= 10.2%, Starch= 1.3% , WSC= 8.3% and Esc= 4.6% .
Does that mean it is safe? I posted the analysis to Roo's case history so you guys can assess the numbers for me. (this is such a terrifying and humbling experience but I am trying to get up to speed and learn what I need to know). I can't believe how wonderful this group is and how kind you all are.
So glad for the warning about Triple Crown pellets. I will wait to go to ODTBC if I need to after you review my hay analysis.
My major concern now is that my vet is transitioning Roo back to pasture a few hours a day...a small area of weeds/bermuda grass that is eaten down by a pony all day and then Roo is turned out in late afternoon for a few hours. the plan is to have him on it overnight (b/o is good to me about the night turnout as I think that is when sugar is lowest). The theory is that the Spring grass is dead now and the summer Bermuda grasses are coming in and that they are lower in sugar. Indeed, Roo was on that type of grass all last summer and Fall with no acute laminitis flaring up.
My secondary concern: I want to be sure there is no indication of PPID. The Cornell test showed ACTH = 16.5 . May I assume that is a safe level? The Leptin result came in - so now the blood test results are: Leptin 2.74, Insulin 39.95, ACTH 16.5.
Also, I know that the minerals are critical and I would be happy to pay for Dr. Kellon or you to give me a complete feeding plan. Can you advise me how to arrange for that?
Roo seems happy and pasture sound now, but when he was hurting, I felt all the time like my horse was on fire and I needed to put the fire out.....I will do anything necessary to prevent it happening again.
Linda House for Roo
Alabama
Joined April 2012
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Linda%20House_Alabama_Apr%202012/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
annettescherr@ymail.com
Hi Linda. I am relatively new to the group also, but I can tell you the information here has been the difference between life and death for my horse. DON'T WAIT TO GET A CORER TO HAVE THE HAY TESTED. Equine Analytical told me to just make sure I got a good sample. The test is only $25.00 (little more than the cost of a bag of ODTBC) and you get the results back within a week. I am now testing hay just for fun. I bought some timothy the other day and it was over 13% sugar/starch. My last load of Orchard Alfalfa was only 8% s/s. Orchard grass and Timothy grass are erroneously believed to be safe to feed and alfalfa is villainized. In reality, they are too rich for most IR horses. You can't tell from looking or smelling a hay how much sugar it has. Although I noticed the meadow grass I just bought smelled sweet. The test results should be interesting because the supplier told me he sold the hay to UC Davis in California specifically to feed to their IR horses. I also watch to see how my horse feet respond to the hay. His feet tell me if the s/s is to high because he will get soreness or inflammation or both. There is a direct correlation between high insulin levels and inflammation. I don't know how to describe it inexact biochemical pathway terms but I am sure Dr. Kellon can! My horse Sparky went from grade 4 lameness to grade 1 or 2 and is almost ride-able. Some days are better than others. He goes up and down but the general direction is up!
Annette Scherr & Sparky(IR not PPID) Mustang
Member since Jan 2011
Southern California
ascherr@...
annettescherr@...
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Sparky/
http://flic.kr/s/aHsjvUiGq3
Annette Scherr & Sparky(IR not PPID) Mustang
Member since Jan 2011
Southern California
ascherr@...
annettescherr@...
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Sparky/
http://flic.kr/s/aHsjvUiGq3
Mandy Woods
Ok,
Where were we?
Linda!
I cannot explain why some barn owners and vets are threatened by their lack of knowledge about IR. Believe me just about half the list members have gone through this! The ego is fragile so you must find a way either by humor or begging them to help you! I have changed vets numerous times. Some of them have now gotten ''in to'' IR. Farriers are just as bad if not worse! You will probably learn how to trim yourself. My only suggestion is to be diplomatic (not my strong suit!) because you dont want to burn any bridges. Show them the science we use, ask to test the hay and show the barn owner the analysis, so he sees exactly what he's feeding. You may end up changing barns, vets and farriers. Its done all the time. You should talk to Mr. Frizzer's people!
On feeding Triple Crown Lite. We dont recommend a large serving of it. Its very condensed minerally. It would be better if you switched to ODTB cubes exclusively especially if you cant soak untested hay. If you can affort this product - its $20 a bag in VA and that would probably last you 3 days - its easy to feed. Just get a kitchen counter scale and measure out 5#s into an individual bag or container. See if you can get a barn person to drop feed in his stall or drylot 3 times a day. Then when you visit in the evening you could take him a presoaked flake of hay from home. Some boarders rent a space at their barn to store their specially bought hay, or keep it at home and hand deliver each day. I carried 5 bales of my low s/s hay to the barn I boarded at with the minerals premixed and put in sandwich baggies to feed my mare for a month. Point is ~ it can be done if you get creative. You may have to 'tip' the barn help!
Do what you can. You are just one person. I'm going to send the IR calculator so you can plug in your numbers. Go ahead and show it to your vet! Did you find the VPI proxie papers that Dr. K mentioned? Thats the place to start.
Dont feel bad about not riding Roo. You can continue his training by hand walking all over Alabama! Teach him to back, disengage both front and back end and in general send him to cowboy school! You can have as much fun on the ground as onboard. Its the quality of time you spend........ And DO NOT beat yourself up. How were you to know?
Linda, you have joined a very exclusive group of equestrians so open your self up to the new way of horse management! People will be calling you asking YOU for help! So be strong!
http://www.freil.com/~mlf/IR/ir.html
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003
ps: please delete all previous posts that you respond to. Also, sign your name, state, date of joining and always include the link to Roos Case History. Cut and paste everything to an email to yourself to use.
Where were we?
Linda!
I cannot explain why some barn owners and vets are threatened by their lack of knowledge about IR. Believe me just about half the list members have gone through this! The ego is fragile so you must find a way either by humor or begging them to help you! I have changed vets numerous times. Some of them have now gotten ''in to'' IR. Farriers are just as bad if not worse! You will probably learn how to trim yourself. My only suggestion is to be diplomatic (not my strong suit!) because you dont want to burn any bridges. Show them the science we use, ask to test the hay and show the barn owner the analysis, so he sees exactly what he's feeding. You may end up changing barns, vets and farriers. Its done all the time. You should talk to Mr. Frizzer's people!
On feeding Triple Crown Lite. We dont recommend a large serving of it. Its very condensed minerally. It would be better if you switched to ODTB cubes exclusively especially if you cant soak untested hay. If you can affort this product - its $20 a bag in VA and that would probably last you 3 days - its easy to feed. Just get a kitchen counter scale and measure out 5#s into an individual bag or container. See if you can get a barn person to drop feed in his stall or drylot 3 times a day. Then when you visit in the evening you could take him a presoaked flake of hay from home. Some boarders rent a space at their barn to store their specially bought hay, or keep it at home and hand deliver each day. I carried 5 bales of my low s/s hay to the barn I boarded at with the minerals premixed and put in sandwich baggies to feed my mare for a month. Point is ~ it can be done if you get creative. You may have to 'tip' the barn help!
Do what you can. You are just one person. I'm going to send the IR calculator so you can plug in your numbers. Go ahead and show it to your vet! Did you find the VPI proxie papers that Dr. K mentioned? Thats the place to start.
Dont feel bad about not riding Roo. You can continue his training by hand walking all over Alabama! Teach him to back, disengage both front and back end and in general send him to cowboy school! You can have as much fun on the ground as onboard. Its the quality of time you spend........ And DO NOT beat yourself up. How were you to know?
Linda, you have joined a very exclusive group of equestrians so open your self up to the new way of horse management! People will be calling you asking YOU for help! So be strong!
http://www.freil.com/~mlf/IR/ir.html
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003
ps: please delete all previous posts that you respond to. Also, sign your name, state, date of joining and always include the link to Roos Case History. Cut and paste everything to an email to yourself to use.
Maggie
it is killing me to think this is due to my own negligence
Linda,
Like Dr. Kellon said, try not to be so hard on yourself. Many, ma ny of the folks on this list were where you are now (including me), so we know the feeling. Don't waste your energy on regrets, because you' re going to need that energy in managing your new way of li fe with Roo. Just wanted to send you some encouragement, because I know how bad I felt when Chancey first got laminitis. It took me 4 years and many more laminitis episodes before I found this group. I had made many changes in his management, but never had enough info to do it completely right and prevent him from getting laminitis again and again. Because of Dr. Kellon and the many other experts and the support and knowledge I have gotten here, I am confident that Chancey's laminitis days are over (even tho my vet told me it's not a matter of "if" he will founder again, it's a matter of "when"). Hang in there!
Maggie and Chancey in VA
March 2011
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/
--- In EquineCushings@..., "roodle20" <roodle20@...> wrote:
Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001
If you can't use the hay, you can go to the Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance cubes. Since you can get other TC products, you should be able to get these. If your store isn't familiar with them, give Triple Crown a call directly.
If high sugar noted in hay, I may have to buy "safe forage"... I beleive another post described it. Is that advised if hay cannot be soaked?
Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001
roodle20
Thank you so much Dr. Kellon for your reply and your kind words! I saw to it he had no grain in the morning and had hay througout the day in a haynet prior to the blood pull at 4pm.
The Cornell test was only for Insulin, ACTH and Leptin; I didn't realize there was no glucose component to test so I can't calc the G:I ratio from the Cornell results.
Nonetheless, from what you say, the glucose result is not really necessary with an insulin of 39.95 after hay only. It seems the diagnosis is pretty clear. The Leptin result is still pending and I'm not sure what it will tell us but I will rely on you and group -members' advice.
I will read the pony study and I will not "give up the fight". Have located a hay probe and will send samples asap to Equi Analytical.
If high sugar noted in hay, I may have to buy "safe forage"... I beleive another post described it. Is that advised if hay cannot be soaked?
Thank you again and again.
Linda House for Roo
Alabama 2012
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The Cornell test was only for Insulin, ACTH and Leptin; I didn't realize there was no glucose component to test so I can't calc the G:I ratio from the Cornell results.
Nonetheless, from what you say, the glucose result is not really necessary with an insulin of 39.95 after hay only. It seems the diagnosis is pretty clear. The Leptin result is still pending and I'm not sure what it will tell us but I will rely on you and group -members' advice.
I will read the pony study and I will not "give up the fight". Have located a hay probe and will send samples asap to Equi Analytical.
If high sugar noted in hay, I may have to buy "safe forage"... I beleive another post described it. Is that advised if hay cannot be soaked?
Thank you again and again.
Linda House for Roo
Alabama 2012
--- In EquineCushings@..., "drkellon" <drkellon@...> wrote:
Hi Linda,
I'm sorry you don't have more support "on the ground", but you'll find plenty here.
A "normal" insulin depends on when and what the horse was last fed. An insulin of 40 uIU/mL is normal after a grain meal, but not normal if fasting or not fed grain.
You might want to print out the Va Polytechnic pony study in our files for your vet. It clearly shows that pasture laminitis risk is linked to higher insulin. It also shows that normal ponies on the same pasture that caused laminitis in IR ponies had an insulin no higher than 12 uIU/mL.
You have already done quite a lot in the face of stiff resistance, so don't be so hard on yourself. This could have been much worse without the weight loss, exercise and hoof care.
Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001
Hi Linda,
I'm sorry you don't have more support "on the ground", but you'll find plenty here.
A "normal" insulin depends on when and what the horse was last fed. An insulin of 40 uIU/mL is normal after a grain meal, but not normal if fasting or not fed grain.
You might want to print out the Va Polytechnic pony study in our files for your vet. It clearly shows that pasture laminitis risk is linked to higher insulin. It also shows that normal ponies on the same pasture that caused laminitis in IR ponies had an insulin no higher than 12 uIU/mL.
You have already done quite a lot in the face of stiff resistance, so don't be so hard on yourself. This could have been much worse without the weight loss, exercise and hoof care.
Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001
I'm sorry you don't have more support "on the ground", but you'll find plenty here.
A "normal" insulin depends on when and what the horse was last fed. An insulin of 40 uIU/mL is normal after a grain meal, but not normal if fasting or not fed grain.
You might want to print out the Va Polytechnic pony study in our files for your vet. It clearly shows that pasture laminitis risk is linked to higher insulin. It also shows that normal ponies on the same pasture that caused laminitis in IR ponies had an insulin no higher than 12 uIU/mL.
You have already done quite a lot in the face of stiff resistance, so don't be so hard on yourself. This could have been much worse without the weight loss, exercise and hoof care.
Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001
roodle20
Mandy,
Thank you so much for your quick reply. I just removed the .docx test results and uploaded as .doc. I believe you can open them now.
My confusion is why Vet (and BO) don't think my horse has IR. I feel as if I am living in 2 worlds...the one at barn where a little laminitis isn't considered a big deal vs. the wider world accessed through this site and reasearch studies which show laminitis IS a big deal and can be caused by IR.
I wish I could tell you how much "discourse" it took to get my Vet to do the blood work according to protocol(thus 2 sets of tests). Vet believed I was "chasing" a "popular" diagnosis. He feels the test results rule out both PPID and IR. Note: Roo is now somewhat thin and the crest is quite reduced but still visible.
Just prior to the April laminitis I transitioned Roo to Triple Crown Lite (thanks to prompting from my barefoot trimmer). He is getting 3/4 of a "scoop" twice/day (I think the scoop is almost 3 lbs). I will weigh it soon and report back.
Delayed having hay tested last Fall because the BO seemed to take offense when I talked to him about it. Kicking myself now obviously. Can't get a probe til next Tuesday from Ext Agent. Don't know how I can soak hay due to Boarding and work schedule...how long prior to feeding can this be safely done? I am already pre-filling haynets for BO so all he has to do is hand them. Should I just purchase the "safe forage " for him to replace hay until i'm sure?
I can begin the supplements immediately.
Please advise. I am crushed that I might not be able to ride him for many months...it is killing me to think this is due to my own negligence. I should have begun the protocol prior to Spring. But he lost all the extra weight and seemed healthy and I was riding him barefoot Dec- March.
Please advise what you think about his test results...the Cornell test "seems" negative for PPID and IR.
Linda House for Roo
Alabama 2012
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Thank you so much for your quick reply. I just removed the .docx test results and uploaded as .doc. I believe you can open them now.
My confusion is why Vet (and BO) don't think my horse has IR. I feel as if I am living in 2 worlds...the one at barn where a little laminitis isn't considered a big deal vs. the wider world accessed through this site and reasearch studies which show laminitis IS a big deal and can be caused by IR.
I wish I could tell you how much "discourse" it took to get my Vet to do the blood work according to protocol(thus 2 sets of tests). Vet believed I was "chasing" a "popular" diagnosis. He feels the test results rule out both PPID and IR. Note: Roo is now somewhat thin and the crest is quite reduced but still visible.
Just prior to the April laminitis I transitioned Roo to Triple Crown Lite (thanks to prompting from my barefoot trimmer). He is getting 3/4 of a "scoop" twice/day (I think the scoop is almost 3 lbs). I will weigh it soon and report back.
Delayed having hay tested last Fall because the BO seemed to take offense when I talked to him about it. Kicking myself now obviously. Can't get a probe til next Tuesday from Ext Agent. Don't know how I can soak hay due to Boarding and work schedule...how long prior to feeding can this be safely done? I am already pre-filling haynets for BO so all he has to do is hand them. Should I just purchase the "safe forage " for him to replace hay until i'm sure?
I can begin the supplements immediately.
Please advise. I am crushed that I might not be able to ride him for many months...it is killing me to think this is due to my own negligence. I should have begun the protocol prior to Spring. But he lost all the extra weight and seemed healthy and I was riding him barefoot Dec- March.
Please advise what you think about his test results...the Cornell test "seems" negative for PPID and IR.
Linda House for Roo
Alabama 2012
--- In EquineCushings@..., "Mandy Woods" <bittersweetfarm@...> wrote:
Hi Linda,
Welcome to the group. You're about to enter a new chapter on equine
nutrition and management. You'll watch Roo improve daily with the protocol
that has been designed by Dr. Kellon. The list philosophy is DDT/E.
Since Roo in an easy keeper TWH and laminitic on spring grass ~ you should
start him on the Temporary Emergency Diet now. Pull him off pasture
immediately! Your vet was right about spring grass. Roo most likely is IR
so you need to feed him as if he was. Wont hurt if he's not. WILL help if
he is! He's at the age where Cushings could be involved so you'll need to
get an eACTH test before the end of August for a DIAGNOSIS.
I could not open your Case History docs but I did get the questionnaire to
open. Nancy said your bloodwork states he's IR. IR is managed by DIET.
By removing him from pasture (full of sugar) and feeding him a low
sugar/starch/fat meal with his hay soaked and drained will make a huge
improvement in him. We aim for 10% or less sugar/starch a day. The ER
diet is exactly what he needs. The ER minerals can be purchased at any
drugstore. Vitamin E, loose iodized table salt, magnesium and flax seed.
This is Temporary until you get your hay analyzed and the minerals balanced
to that assay. Feed him 1.5% his body weight a day in hay ~ weigh it dry.
Feed at least 4 small meals a day in small mesh hay nets (use them for
soaking and slowing down his eating) so he has some food going through his
system. Do NOT starve him! What low carb feed are you giving him? Is it
under 10% s/s/f? Read the Start Here file for details. Send your hay
sample to www.equi-analytical.com #603/$49.
TRIM is a balanced foot with toes backed from the top and heels lowered. IF
he's barefoot you can get boots/pads for him. Trimming should be done as
often as weekly to every 2 or 3 weeks.
EXERCISE is hand walking only if he's able. Never force a laminitic horse
to move. Also ~ when he starts feeling better you want him quiet! and not
bucking around. It takes time for hooves to heal. Many horses need to
grow out a complete hoof (about one year) before they are 'released' to ride
or continue their work load.
We know the information here is overwhelming. It will get easier for you!
Please ask questions as they pop up. Start a journal on Roo with pictures
too. Knock yourself out in the files. And take a deep breath for yourself.
You arent alone!
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003
Mandy Woods
Hi Linda,
Welcome to the group. You're about to enter a new chapter on equine nutrition and management. You'll watch Roo improve daily with the protocol that has been designed by Dr. Kellon. The list philosophy is DDT/E.
Since Roo in an easy keeper TWH and laminitic on spring grass ~ you should start him on the Temporary Emergency Diet now. Pull him off pasture immediately! Your vet was right about spring grass. Roo most likely is IR so you need to feed him as if he was. Wont hurt if he's not. WILL help if he is! He's at the age where Cushings could be involved so you'll need to get an eACTH test before the end of August for a DIAGNOSIS.
I could not open your Case History docs but I did get the questionnaire to open. Nancy said your bloodwork states he's IR. IR is managed by DIET. By removing him from pasture (full of sugar) and feeding him a low sugar/starch/fat meal with his hay soaked and drained will make a huge improvement in him. We aim for 10% or less sugar/starch a day. The ER diet is exactly what he needs. The ER minerals can be purchased at any drugstore. Vitamin E, loose iodized table salt, magnesium and flax seed. This is Temporary until you get your hay analyzed and the minerals balanced to that assay. Feed him 1.5% his body weight a day in hay ~ weigh it dry. Feed at least 4 small meals a day in small mesh hay nets (use them for soaking and slowing down his eating) so he has some food going through his system. Do NOT starve him! What low carb feed are you giving him? Is it under 10% s/s/f? Read the Start Here file for details. Send your hay sample to www.equi-analytical.com #603/$49.
TRIM is a balanced foot with toes backed from the top and heels lowered. IF he's barefoot you can get boots/pads for him. Trimming should be done as often as weekly to every 2 or 3 weeks.
EXERCISE is hand walking only if he's able. Never force a laminitic horse to move. Also ~ when he starts feeling better you want him quiet! and not bucking around. It takes time for hooves to heal. Many horses need to grow out a complete hoof (about one year) before they are 'released' to ride or continue their work load.
We know the information here is overwhelming. It will get easier for you! Please ask questions as they pop up. Start a journal on Roo with pictures too. Knock yourself out in the files. And take a deep breath for yourself. You arent alone!
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003
Welcome to the group. You're about to enter a new chapter on equine nutrition and management. You'll watch Roo improve daily with the protocol that has been designed by Dr. Kellon. The list philosophy is DDT/E.
Since Roo in an easy keeper TWH and laminitic on spring grass ~ you should start him on the Temporary Emergency Diet now. Pull him off pasture immediately! Your vet was right about spring grass. Roo most likely is IR so you need to feed him as if he was. Wont hurt if he's not. WILL help if he is! He's at the age where Cushings could be involved so you'll need to get an eACTH test before the end of August for a DIAGNOSIS.
I could not open your Case History docs but I did get the questionnaire to open. Nancy said your bloodwork states he's IR. IR is managed by DIET. By removing him from pasture (full of sugar) and feeding him a low sugar/starch/fat meal with his hay soaked and drained will make a huge improvement in him. We aim for 10% or less sugar/starch a day. The ER diet is exactly what he needs. The ER minerals can be purchased at any drugstore. Vitamin E, loose iodized table salt, magnesium and flax seed. This is Temporary until you get your hay analyzed and the minerals balanced to that assay. Feed him 1.5% his body weight a day in hay ~ weigh it dry. Feed at least 4 small meals a day in small mesh hay nets (use them for soaking and slowing down his eating) so he has some food going through his system. Do NOT starve him! What low carb feed are you giving him? Is it under 10% s/s/f? Read the Start Here file for details. Send your hay sample to www.equi-analytical.com #603/$49.
TRIM is a balanced foot with toes backed from the top and heels lowered. IF he's barefoot you can get boots/pads for him. Trimming should be done as often as weekly to every 2 or 3 weeks.
EXERCISE is hand walking only if he's able. Never force a laminitic horse to move. Also ~ when he starts feeling better you want him quiet! and not bucking around. It takes time for hooves to heal. Many horses need to grow out a complete hoof (about one year) before they are 'released' to ride or continue their work load.
We know the information here is overwhelming. It will get easier for you! Please ask questions as they pop up. Start a journal on Roo with pictures too. Knock yourself out in the files. And take a deep breath for yourself. You arent alone!
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003
Hi Linda
Just want to say welcome. You are in the right place. You've made a good start with the changes you've instituted.
You should hear shortly from one of the "first responders' who will walk you through the approach this group has found most successful.
Thanks so much or doing your Case History and providing your blood work. While the insulin values are within normal lab limits, Roo is IR as of this test.
Roo needs to stay off grass until his insulin is normalized and the IR is brought under control.
Here's a couple of things to get you started:
Did you receive a NEW MEMBER packet upon joining? It may be in your yahoo mail box. The one you had to set up to get here. There's lots of info there, including what to do for now about Roo's diet. IF you can't find it, go here
<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/%201%20START%20HERE!!!/>
Look for the Emergency diet.
Here's the link to the IR Calculator that will show you why he's IR.
<http://www.freil.com/~mlf/IR/ir.html>
Because his glucose was 66 - lower than lab normals, I'd be concerned that perhaps the blood sat around a bit too long. I'd call teh vet and ask about that value.
Also take a look at www.ecirhorse.com
Hang in there. Way too much info will be coming your way in a short amount of time and it can give you a brain cramp. Take heart. You are in the right place.
Again, welcome
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
NewEnglandEquineBalance@...
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Just want to say welcome. You are in the right place. You've made a good start with the changes you've instituted.
You should hear shortly from one of the "first responders' who will walk you through the approach this group has found most successful.
Thanks so much or doing your Case History and providing your blood work. While the insulin values are within normal lab limits, Roo is IR as of this test.
Roo needs to stay off grass until his insulin is normalized and the IR is brought under control.
Here's a couple of things to get you started:
Did you receive a NEW MEMBER packet upon joining? It may be in your yahoo mail box. The one you had to set up to get here. There's lots of info there, including what to do for now about Roo's diet. IF you can't find it, go here
<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/%201%20START%20HERE!!!/>
Look for the Emergency diet.
Here's the link to the IR Calculator that will show you why he's IR.
<http://www.freil.com/~mlf/IR/ir.html>
Because his glucose was 66 - lower than lab normals, I'd be concerned that perhaps the blood sat around a bit too long. I'd call teh vet and ask about that value.
Also take a look at www.ecirhorse.com
Hang in there. Way too much info will be coming your way in a short amount of time and it can give you a brain cramp. Take heart. You are in the right place.
Again, welcome
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
NewEnglandEquineBalance@...
--- In EquineCushings@..., "roodle20" <roodle20@...> wrote:
My name is Linda House -Tuscaloosa Alabama. I just uploaded Case History & Blood Test results on my 15 year old TWH gelding at http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Linda%20House_Alabama_Apr%202012/
roodle20
My name is Linda House -Tuscaloosa Alabama. I just uploaded Case History & Blood Test results on my 15 year old TWH gelding at http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Linda%20House_Alabama_Apr%202012/
"Roo" is recovering (I hope) from a laminitis attack. Vet says it was caused by "grass founder" from eating too much Spring grass. He believes Spring grass is different from summer grass and that Roo will be fine on pasture soon. I started low carb feed, haynet for hay and he is off grass for now. I need to have more information to be able to protect him. Test results are contradictory. I hope that one of you who understand the complexity of these tests will help me and advise how I should proceed.
Thank you for any help you can give me.
"Roo" is recovering (I hope) from a laminitis attack. Vet says it was caused by "grass founder" from eating too much Spring grass. He believes Spring grass is different from summer grass and that Roo will be fine on pasture soon. I started low carb feed, haynet for hay and he is off grass for now. I need to have more information to be able to protect him. Test results are contradictory. I hope that one of you who understand the complexity of these tests will help me and advise how I should proceed.
Thank you for any help you can give me.