--- In EquineCushings@..., "Lorna" <briars@...> wrote:

Can you provide a link to the spreadsheet you are talking about so that we can help?

BTW, that perfectly balanced pelleted feed is balanced to itself.It doesn't take into consideration anything else the horse is fed.......hay,for example.
And I'll stick my neck out and say that what that particular company considers perfectly balanced is not what we here consider perfectly balanced,wrt amounts of minerals and ratios.

Hi Lorna,

The link is
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/7a%20Hay%20and%20Diet%20Balancing/
and the file is the 7th one down, "Compare Feeds.xls"

Yes, I've pointed that out about feed being balanced to itself and then I get "but it says right on the bag, 'balanced for use with (insert your hay type of choice)' so it doesn't matter what's in the hay because they've already accounted for that." Believe me, I've talked and talked and talked until I'm blue in the face and no one wants to hear it. That's why I want numbers. I went on a bit of a rant with poor Cheryl(mod) last night, bless her heart for listening to me, and I'm going to share part of that here as I know I can't be the only one facing this problem.

'I've been to every boarding stable in town. None of them want to soak hay, none of them want to use hay nets, none of them want to feed hay when there is perfectly good pasture available, and none of them understand (regardless of HOW much explaining I do) why my horse has to have such a freakish diet. I go through the "my horse is IR" speech over and over and over, and explain why she can't have this or that or the other, and I still get, "But the grass in that pasture is so short, she won't get that much," or "Essential K GC is safe for IR horses," or whatever else they don't want to deal with. It's like NO ONE is LISTENING! I talk and talk and talk and NO ONE GETS IT!!'

Thanks,
Erica and Mimi
Indpls, IN 2011

I'm not boarding and I still get that from my husband. He doesn't have a problem with my one Cushing's mini gelding needing special attention, but he doesn't understand why the three saddle horses (normal as far as we know) can't just be thrown out on the pasture 24/7, cause that's what his dad has always done (even with his laminitic horse, insert eye-rolling and doh smilie here). I had to just give in this spring when he opened the gate, and they were on the grass waterway adjoining the 100 acre field out back before he seeded (once seeded then we had to lock them up and put them back on a bale). The farrier was out Friday, and my gelding which has the fewest problems was showing pink in his white line, which is an indication of something starting. They are on hay now, so should be back to normal shortly, and when its time to try them on their little 5 acre pasture, I can let them out slowly like they are supposed to start.
Chanda

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Erica" <eureggie2@...> wrote:

The link is
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/7a%20Hay%20and%20Diet%20Balancing/
and the file is the 7th one down, "Compare Feeds.xls"

Erica,

That information does not appear on the 'compare feeds.xls' excel document when I download it. I cannot find anything that suggests that I need to multiply anything by 16. Is it possible that I am somehow accessing a different version of the document, or that mine (or yours) might have been somehow corrupted? I have an old copy on my hard drive and I cannot find the '16' line on it, either.

<<< Yes, I've pointed that out about feed being balanced to itself and then I get "but it says right on the bag, 'balanced for use with (insert your hay type of choice)' so it doesn't matter what's in the hay because they've already accounted for that." Believe me, I've talked and talked and talked until I'm blue in the face and no one wants to hear it. That's why I want numbers.>>>

Believe me, they don't want to see numbers. They just want you to go away!

It is not an evidence problem, it is a logic problem. It is illogical to assume that every bale of grass hay is going to supply the same quantities and percentages of minerals, and the same amount of s/s. But all the data in the world showing even outrageous differences will not convince the unconvinceable. They will simply argue, 'but they all average out about the same.'

I always use the 'humor me' approach with Pookey Bear's vet, farrier, etc. If I were you, I would simply call around and announce that I was looking for a special place to board a very special horse, and I would be willing to pay more if they would just 'humor me' and indulge my eccentricities.

I'll bet you'll find some takers!

Lisa in TX
Pookey Bear
June 2010

--. If I were you, I would simply call around and announce that I was looking for a special place to board a very special horse, and I would be willing to pay more if they would just 'humor me' and indulge my eccentricities.

I'll bet you'll find some takers!

Hi Erica,
Lisa's on to something there. It will probably end up being a small operation, maybe a horseowner who would like to earn some money with just one boarder-you! I don't know what it's like where you live or what your work schedule is , but a friend of mine finally got fed up with boarding and found a couple of acres with a shed to rent for her 2 horses. She just started driving around looking for likely prospects, from farms with small cattle yards with no cattle anymore to homes with an empty paddock and barn, (kids lost interest) and knocked on alot of doors. Do you know anyone who might "go in with you" on something like that. I can't even imagine how frustrated you must be getting. Good Luck

Laura K. Chappie & Beau
N.IL.Nov2011

--- In EquineCushings@..., "lonestarquarterh" <mostlyaggies@...> wrote:

That information does not appear on the 'compare feeds.xls' excel document when I download it. I cannot find anything that suggests that I need to multiply anything by 16. Is it possible that I am somehow accessing a different version of the document, or that mine (or yours) might have been somehow corrupted? I have an old copy on my hard drive and I cannot find the '16' line on it, either.

When you open the spreadsheet directly from the file, what is the formula in cell G43 on the "Complete feeds" tab?

I always use the 'humor me' approach with Pookey Bear's vet, farrier, etc. If I were you, I would simply call around and announce that I was looking for a special place to board a very special horse, and I would be willing to pay more if they would just 'humor me' and indulge my eccentricities.

That's what I keep trying for but no luck yet.

Hi Erica,
Lisa's on to something there. It will probably end up being a small operation, maybe a horseowner who would like to earn some money with just one boarder-you!

Maybe chat with your vet. He/she knows of other IR/PPID horse owners. My vet came to me asking if I would consider boarding a PPID horse for one of her friends since she knew I had an understanding of the various issues.

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Erica" <eureggie2@...> wrote:

When you open the spreadsheet directly from the file, what is the formula in cell G43 on the "Complete feeds" tab?

Thanks for clarifying which cell you were talking about. I had to change my settings to get the formula to show, but now it does!

I would assume the factor of 16 is to convert pounds to ounces, which is helpful for those products I am feeding smaller amounts of, such as flaxseed. I usually take the concepts from the spreadsheets/comparison charts and go from there, because I am more intuitive mathematically and less deductive.

Deduction would tell me that there is no obvious reason to divide the number of ounces by pounds fed per day, but intuition tells me that this chart might have been fashioned from a previous chart, and this cell might have been lost in translation! I would just ignore it since you already are able to easily calculate number of servings by dividing total weight by pounds fed per day.

I hope you are able to find a sympathetic barn owner, or individual who might be able to accommodate your horse. Having to board Pookey Bear would add an additional layer of complexity to my already complex management program!

Lisa in TX
Pookey Bear
June 2010

Ok, that makes sense and really seems painfully obvious now that you have explained it. I'm still feeling pretty overwhelmed by all of this stuff (just when I think I've got it all figured out, I get hit with something new) and my first reaction is to panic.

I really thought about what everyone on here said about finding a co-op type barn to board in and I think I might have found a place that will work for us. They'll feed whatever I provide so that means the "freak diet" is in, LOL! I'm hoping for the best.

Thanks,
Erica and Mimi
Indpls, IN 2011

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Erica" <eureggie2@...> wrote:

I really thought about what everyone on here said about finding a co-op type barn to board in and I think I might have found a place that will work for us. They'll feed whatever I provide so that means the "freak diet" is in, LOL! I'm hoping for the best.

Erica,

That would be so wonderful! Keeping our fingers crossed...

It is difficult enough when you discover your horse is IR or Cushings, with worry, the learning curve about diet and management, and the 'miracle cures' well-meaning friends assure you worked for their horses. But feeling like you are at odds with the people who are supposed to be helping (barn owner, vet, farrier) makes it seem almost impossible at times.

It is not impossible! Your horse will benefit SO much if you continue to politely but firmly advocate for him! When Pookey Bear first foundered and was diagnosed with IR, he was so sensitive to even the smallest changes in his management--unsoaked hay, a bit of grass, too much fat or starch in his 'meal.' Now that he is doing well and back in a bit of exercise, he tolerates all of these things without flare-ups.

I feel bad that it took me so many months to really get on top of his diet and trim, but we do the best we can. He has survived all my mistakes so far and is doing well despite me!

Keep us posted and make sure you put that land owner on your Christmas cookie list,

Lisa in TX
Pookey Bear
June 2010

Erica ~
I am so sorry to have had you confused by the spreadsheet and am amazed it took years for someone to spot this. I originally copied a spreadsheet I made for supplements when I made this one - and, of course, the "x 16" was meant to figure servings in ounces, not pounds.
I haven't revisited these in a long time as I've redone the format on my web site.

Good luck with the new barn!

Patti K
Vail AZ 2001
EC Support Team