Finally got my analysis back which might explain why my horse is not doing as well as he should. The wsc is 24%!!!! :( esc 11.4% both dry matter.

I don't know what to do, I know a lot if you here say fructans don't matter but others like Watts say they do. And I'm thinking with such an extreme amount t definitely will matter??

I'll try to find something else but even so it takes another t
wo weeks to get results. God I hate this awful cold summer even more now. :( What am I going to feed him??

Maria
Sweden
March 2011

Hi Maria,


We don't focus on WSC , as you know.

esc 11.4% both dry matter.

What is the starch number?

Can you add your case history link to your signature for us?



Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

Hi Lorna,
I know you don't and normally I would agree with that. But there is nothing normal about this hay! I've never ever seen a fructan level this high, this is a level you would expect from grass that has been frozen. And it may well have been because June here was extremely cold.

And my horse is sore and has very strong pulses, despite having absolutely NO grass and the rest of his diet being the same and very tight, apart from the fructanbomb hay.... I've even increased his pergolide up to 4 mg which didn't do any good.

The starch is 1%. Sorry I don't remember how to find my case history and it's not updated because of that. But it's a 21 year old arabian gelding with PPID, been on Prascend for a year and was doing great on 2,5 mg until all these hay problems which started with original hay getting mouldy, got something else which only had an NIR analysis and now this which has him more sore than he's been in a very long time. :(

So I think it's likely that this extreme fructan level is the culprit don't you? What else is there? Of course I soak it. I'll try double soaking to get more sugar out. Gosh I really hate this. Everyone else has had the same weather so it will be really hard to get decent hay. And it takes two weeks from when I send in samples to getting the results, which means two weeks of eating potentially and probably dangerous hay. Right now I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle and whatever I do it will be wrong.... :(

1ST JUNE 30TH
MIXED GRASS DATE SAMPLED 7/18
SWEDEN
7.5
92.5
Results
Digestible Energy (DE), Mcal/kg 2.01 2.18
% g/kg. DM % g/kg.
Crude Protein 7.3 73.3 7.9 79.2
Estimated Lysine .26 2.6 .28 2.8
Acid Detergent Fiber (ADF) 34.5 345.2 37.3 373.1
Neutral Detergent Fiber (NDF) 55.8 558.1 60.3 603.2
WSC (Water Sol. Carbs.) 22.0 219.7 23.8 237.5
ESC (Simple Sugars) 10.6 105.5 11.4 114.0
Starch 1.1 10.7 1.2 11.6
Non Fiber Carbo. (NFC) 20.9 208.7 22.6 225.6
% g/kg. % g/kg.
Calcium .35 3.54 .38 3.83
Phosphorus .19 1.93 .21 2.09
Magnesium .16 1.63 .18 1.76
Potassium .96 9.56 1.03 10.34
Sodium .057 .567 .061 .613
ppm mg/kg. ppm mg/kg.
Iron 128 128 139 139
Zinc 35 35 38 38
Copper 10 10 11 11
Manganese 179 179 193 193
Molybdenum 1.4 1.4 1.5 1.5
As Fed 100% Dry
RFV 92

/Maria
Sweden
March 2011

Hi Maria,


I'm late for stables but here is your case history link.Keep it with your signature so it doesn't get away from you.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/Maria%20and%20Mirald%2C%20Sweden/

Sugar levels are pretty high in that hay,right? I'm not sure if I'm reading the numbers correctly.I see 10.6%.



Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

Thanks!
That's the old hay which was ok, soaked it. New hay is awful...

I'll try to upload the new report!

/Maria
Sweden
March 2011

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/Maria%20and%20Mirald%2C%20Sweden/

I'll try to upload the new report!

Great,Maria.

You can also make use of the Archives to review some of the many fructan discussions we've had here.

Here is one message from Dr. Kellon that might help.

130040

There are many more.I just typed in WSC Kellon. Fructans Kellon would work,too.



Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

Hello Maria,
I had my hay analyzed in March, my own hay from last year.  The WSC was 24.3% (in Dry Matter), ESC was 14% and starch was .2% .  My god, how did I make such rich hay?????
I soaked my  hay and still continued to feed it to my two horses, one who got laminitis in November/December, and my other healthy one.
I decided to get my soaked hay analyzed, so in April I sent to Forageplus a sample of soaked, then dried hay.
The results were : WSC 18.3%, ESC 6.5% and Starch : 2.6% (hmmm, starch went up!??).
My horses ate this hay all the way until end of May when there was no more left.  
I had soaked it for about 2 to 3 hours.  I was too lazy to rinse (sorry, but I would have IF there had been a reaction).  Plus my horse who was diagnosed IR in February, did not get the correct protocol for withdrawing blood, plus we have questions about the French laboratory who did the analysis, and due to all this I'm still questioning...  I scheduled another blood test next week with a new vet and using Liphook in England to check for PPID and IR.
So the purpose of this email is to say, continue with that hay, and soak it in cold water for a couple of hours.
Good luck!
Joyce & Izmir
Normandy, France
March 2012


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