Fionn's results


fionn@...
 

Blood tests came back.

ACTH 88.1
Insulin 25.13
Cortisol 4.13

These came from Cornell. I have updated his history. We started him on 2 cc pergolide yesterday. It's a liquid. Looks like cough syrup.

So, what does that all mean?

Michelle Peck Williams & Fionn
Lexington, Kentucky USA
Joined June 2012
fionn@...

Case history: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Michelle%20Peck%20Williams


fionn@...
 

He also has a foot photo album with his X-rays at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHoof/photos/album/1767999070/pic/list

Michelle Peck Williams & Fionn
Lexington, Kentucky USA
Joined June 2012
fionn@...

Case history: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Michelle%20Peck%20Williams

Foot Photo album: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHoof/photos/album/1767999070/pic/list



On Aug 3, 2012, at 9:30 AM, Fionn Williams <fionn@...> wrote:

Blood tests came back.

ACTH 88.1
Insulin 25.13
Cortisol 4.13

These came from Cornell. I have updated his history. We started him on 2 cc pergolide yesterday. It's a liquid. Looks like cough syrup.

So, what does that all mean?

Michelle Peck Williams & Fionn
Lexington, Kentucky USA
Joined June 2012
fionn@...

Case history: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Michelle%20Peck%20Williams

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Lavinia <dnlf@...>
 

Cornell:
ACTH 88.1
Insulin 25.13
Cortisol 4.13
Case history: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Michelle%20Peck%20Williams
Hi Michelle,
What this means is that Fionn is clearly PPID. I'm assuming there were no glucose or leptin tests done? Cortisol doesn't tell us anything. As we are heading into the seasonal rise, his ACTH will be rising from there so good that the pergolide was started. Are you tapering onto the full prescribed dose? The currently uncontrolled PPID is probably driving some of the IR.
What is the amount of pergolide in (mg) that was prescribed? The cc is only a volume measure and doesn't tell you what the actual drug dose is. Also, liquid pergolide is the least stable/most expensive form of compunded pergolide available so I would encourage you to get a script for the capsule form instead.
Although the insulin is within the lab's normal range, it is still elevated and makes Fionn definitely IR. Is he still being allowed restricted grazing time? Diet needs to be tight, esp with the foot issues he has been showing. Remove the brown salt block, the Equiforce Omega Tri supplement (use ground flax instead). How much Alam is he currently on? Could also use some current body pics to assess his body condition score.
Know you've been working with Linda on the hoof issues so you have input on where the trim needs to go.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


fionn@...
 

Oops, I should have updated the case history better. I have already taken him off the Omega 3 and am doing the ground flax. I am not sure what the mg are for the pergolide but I will see if I can find out.

He is getting 7 pounds of Alam, which is the proper amount for his weight. There are some recent photos that show his weight in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/photos/album/867903845/pic/list

Will check on glucose too since it was done at the local lab.

Michelle Peck Williams, NBCT
AP World History & Humanities Teacher
Dept Chair for Social Studies and Fine Arts
Paul Laurence Dunbar High School, Lexington, KY USA
mpw@...
Michelle.Williams@...

"To know what you know and know what you do not know is the character of one who knows."
-Kung Fuzi (Confucius)

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 3, 2012, at 12:50 PM, "Lavinia" <dnlf@...> wrote:

Cornell:
ACTH 88.1
Insulin 25.13
Cortisol 4.13
Case history: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Michelle%20Peck%20Williams
Hi Michelle,
What this means is that Fionn is clearly PPID. I'm assuming there were no glucose or leptin tests done? Cortisol doesn't tell us anything. As we are heading into the seasonal rise, his ACTH will be rising from there so good that the pergolide was started. Are you tapering onto the full prescribed dose? The currently uncontrolled PPID is probably driving some of the IR.
What is the amount of pergolide in (mg) that was prescribed? The cc is only a volume measure and doesn't tell you what the actual drug dose is. Also, liquid pergolide is the least stable/most expensive form of compunded pergolide available so I would encourage you to get a script for the capsule form instead.
Although the insulin is within the lab's normal range, it is still elevated and makes Fionn definitely IR. Is he still being allowed restricted grazing time? Diet needs to be tight, esp with the foot issues he has been showing. Remove the brown salt block, the Equiforce Omega Tri supplement (use ground flax instead). How much Alam is he currently on? Could also use some current body pics to assess his body condition score.
Know you've been working with Linda on the hoof issues so you have input on where the trim needs to go.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


fionn@...
 

Fionn's pergolide is 1mg. Is 88.1 really really high for ACTH?

He is already on the Emergency Diet, including the flax seed, magnesium, vitamin E and salt. Do I need to change that?

The County Extension Agent came and sampled the hay today, so we are at least on the way with that.

Michelle Peck Williams, NBCT
AP World History & Humanities Teacher
Dept Chair for Social Studies and Fine Arts
Paul Laurence Dunbar High School, Lexington, KY USA
mpw@...
Michelle.Williams@...

"To know what you know and know what you do not know is the character of one who knows."
-Kung Fuzi (Confucius)

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 3, 2012, at 5:08 PM, Michelle Peck Williams <fionn@...> wrote:

Oops, I should have updated the case history better. I have already taken him off the Omega 3 and am doing the ground flax. I am not sure what the mg are for the pergolide but I will see if I can find out.

He is getting 7 pounds of Alam, which is the proper amount for his weight. There are some recent photos that show his weight in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/photos/album/867903845/pic/list

Will check on glucose too since it was done at the local lab.

Michelle Peck Williams, NBCT
AP World History & Humanities Teacher
Dept Chair for Social Studies and Fine Arts
Paul Laurence Dunbar High School, Lexington, KY USA
mpw@...
Michelle.Williams@...

"To know what you know and know what you do not know is the character of one who knows."
-Kung Fuzi (Confucius)

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 3, 2012, at 12:50 PM, "Lavinia" <dnlf@...> wrote:

Cornell:
ACTH 88.1
Insulin 25.13
Cortisol 4.13
Case history: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Michelle%20Peck%20Williams
Hi Michelle,
What this means is that Fionn is clearly PPID. I'm assuming there were no glucose or leptin tests done? Cortisol doesn't tell us anything. As we are heading into the seasonal rise, his ACTH will be rising from there so good that the pergolide was started. Are you tapering onto the full prescribed dose? The currently uncontrolled PPID is probably driving some of the IR.
What is the amount of pergolide in (mg) that was prescribed? The cc is only a volume measure and doesn't tell you what the actual drug dose is. Also, liquid pergolide is the least stable/most expensive form of compunded pergolide available so I would encourage you to get a script for the capsule form instead.
Although the insulin is within the lab's normal range, it is still elevated and makes Fionn definitely IR. Is he still being allowed restricted grazing time? Diet needs to be tight, esp with the foot issues he has been showing. Remove the brown salt block, the Equiforce Omega Tri supplement (use ground flax instead). How much Alam is he currently on? Could also use some current body pics to assess his body condition score.
Know you've been working with Linda on the hoof issues so you have input on where the trim needs to go.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Linda <PapBallou@...>
 


Fionn's pergolide is 1mg. Is 88.1 really really high for ACTH?

He is already on the Emergency Diet, including the flax seed, magnesium, vitamin E and salt. Do I need to change that?

Hi MIchelle -

An ACTH of 88 is not unusual at all. What is most important, besides keeping it controlled, is how the horse responds to the ACTH. We have had horses here that were tested just to see if they had PPID since something just wasn't right...and the ACTH was over 900. Pap came to a total standstill at 80, and another horse I trim can't walk when it's around 40. Others recently have been 200 or so.

Stick with what you are doing and then when the analysis gets back we can fine tune it all.

Are you slowly introducing the pergolide...perhaps increasing in .25mg increments every 3-4 days?

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


fionn@...
 

Started at 1mg two days ago. I'm guessing it will go up from there by increments? Or should we have started at .25 and increased up to 1? Probably too late now. What are the problems or side effects with pergolide? It must be some powerful stuff if 1 mg impacts a giant like Fionn.

Michelle Peck Williams, NBCT
AP World History & Humanities Teacher
Dept Chair for Social Studies & Fine Arts
Paul Laurence Dunbar High School, Lexington, KY USA
mpw@...
michelle.williams@...

"To know what you know and know what you do not know is the character of one who knows."
-Kung Fuzi (Confucius)

Sent from my iPhone 4S

On Aug 3, 2012, at 11:31 PM, "Linda" <PapBallou@...> wrote:



Fionn's pergolide is 1mg. Is 88.1 really really high for ACTH?

He is already on the Emergency Diet, including the flax seed, magnesium, vitamin E and salt. Do I need to change that?
Hi MIchelle -

An ACTH of 88 is not unusual at all. What is most important, besides keeping it controlled, is how the horse responds to the ACTH. We have had horses here that were tested just to see if they had PPID since something just wasn't right...and the ACTH was over 900. Pap came to a total standstill at 80, and another horse I trim can't walk when it's around 40. Others recently have been 200 or so.

Stick with what you are doing and then when the analysis gets back we can fine tune it all.

Are you slowly introducing the pergolide...perhaps increasing in .25mg increments every 3-4 days?

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


palomino.1982 <sbaumgardner@...>
 

Hi Michelle,

When horses are first started on pergolide, it is recommended to titrate the dose ( 0.25 mg for a couple of days and increase by 0.25mg until the full daily dose is reached ). This will prevent any 'pergolide veil' effects: they may act depresses and lack of interest in food.

The adaptogen APF ( www.auburnlabs.com ) is beneficail in preventing the pergolide veil when initially starting pergolide.


Susan
EC Primary Response
San Diego 1.07


fionn@...
 

Ordered APF just now. Thanks! Does he just need it at the beginning or does he need to stay on it?

Michelle & Fionn
Lexington, Kentucky USA
Fionn@...
Joined 6/2012

On Aug 4, 2012, at 1:03 PM, "palomino.1982" <sbaumgardner@...> wrote:


Hi Michelle,

When horses are first started on pergolide, it is recommended to titrate the dose ( 0.25 mg for a couple of days and increase by 0.25mg until the full daily dose is reached ). This will prevent any 'pergolide veil' effects: they may act depresses and lack of interest in food.

The adaptogen APF ( www.auburnlabs.com ) is beneficail in preventing the pergolide veil when initially starting pergolide.

Susan
EC Primary Response
San Diego


palomino.1982 <sbaumgardner@...>
 

Michelle,

APF has strong "support" effects when ACTH is high or cold is triggering metabolic problems. APF improves the ability to deal with stress, minimize the 'pergolide veil', and aids in energy levels.

As far as 'staying on it'- each horse is different. Keeping a daily journal will help with your assessment of how Fionn is doing.

Have you read the files re : Adaptogen's?

Susan
EC Primary Response
San Diego 1.07


..................................................


Ordered APF just now. Thanks! Does he just need it at the beginning or does he need to stay on it?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


fionn@...
 

Yes. Thanks for the help! I have an app for my iPhone called Equisketch records that keeps track of all your horse's records so I am putting everything in there.

He has been doing better on the pergolide. No pulses this week at all. I was able to ride him for a lesson this morning so he is doing really well in his workouts! His work level is back to normal, so that is good.

Thanks again for all the helpful info.

Michelle and Fionn
Lexington Kentucky USA
Joined 6/12
Fionn@...

Sent from my iPhone 4S

On Aug 5, 2012, at 1:26 AM, "palomino.1982" <sbaumgardner@...> wrote:

Michelle,

APF has strong "support" effects when ACTH is high or cold is triggering metabolic problems. APF improves the ability to deal with stress, minimize the 'pergolide veil', and aids in energy levels.

As far as 'staying on it'- each horse is different. Keeping a daily journal will help with your assessment of how Fionn is doing.

Have you read the files re : Adaptogen's?

Susan
EC Primary Response
San Diego 1.07

..................................................

Ordered APF just now. Thanks! Does he just need it at the beginning or does he need to stay on it?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Lavinia <dnlf@...>
 

I have an app for my iPhone called Equisketch records that keeps track of all your horse's records
He has been doing better on the pergolide. No pulses this week at all.
Hi Michelle,
Great to hear that Fionn is doing better. That app sounds like a real work saver.
Would you please remember to delete the post you are replying to, leaving only snippets if needed for clarity. Appreciate your help with this.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team