New Diagnosis- Baileys LoCal Balancer & Dengie HI FI Lite


sezzie22 <sarahspooner@...>
 

Hi All,

I am very new here so apologise in advance if I am doing this incorrectly!!!

I will upload a case history as soon as possible but will give some background information here first!

My 22/23 year old Irish Sport Horse Jenny has recently been diagnosed (bloods confirmed 2 weeks ago) with Cushings.
Up until rencently she was in a loan home (due to my financial constraints) and when I went to visit in early November noticed a number of things which led me to believe she was beginning to show symptoms of Cushings.
As such I now have her in a local Stables boarding.

She is over weight with a compromised immune system (WBC 2.4 (should be between 7-9) and platelets at 58 (170-190 range) These results are from her initial bloods I had carried out in NOvember which produced a FALSE NEGATIVE in relation to her cushings.
I did however immediately put her on a low starch low sugar soaked hay diet as i felt sure this was a false result.
SHe is currently on Dengie HiFI LITE and Baileys Lo-CAL Balancer twice daily as a feed and soaked hay. She is turned out daily in the sand ring with HI FI LITE to nibble on.

She has suffered with a bad foot abscess in November (at the time the bloods were taken) but she was fully sound until last week again when she lamed again having been shod 2 days before.

Does anybody know if these feeds are ok for her??! I read the Emergency Diet file but I am concerned about giving her Beetpulp as in my head as she is so overweight (left out to grass with no restriction in loan home......)it may not be suitable for her??

She has lost weight- but still has a significant belly which i know is also a symptom of cushings also......I do hand walk her in the arena a few times a week but as she is lame again it is difficult for me to help her lose weight whilst being recurrently lame! Vet has said this is not a laminitic situation. I feel it may be a recurring abscess and we are in works to get this out via both Vet and Master farrier.

She is also quite stiff the poor old lady and I would like to commence her on a joint supplement to help her be more comfortable and have found one available with no glucosamine

http://www.copa-ireland.com/Liquiflex.html
Your opinion would be much appreciated in this as I am reading so much information in relation to conflicting information about what is safe and not safe for her I have confused myself!!!
The vet has commenced her on a herbal alternative for the cushings called ACTH & Quercus Robur I have found limited clinical research in relation to this but did find this particular paper with results:

http://www.bahvs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Cushings-Research.pdf

She has now been on this diet since November and the ACTH & Quercus Robur for 2.5 weeks.

Could anyone please steer me in the correct direction in relation to what I should be supplementing her with? Vitamin E Magnesium Oxide Flax etc? Should I move her to the Emergency Diet components? Can I give her a supplement for her joints as linked above??

Please help as a newbie I am literally drowning in a sea of information!!

your help would be hugely appreciated.

Sarah & Jenny
IRELAND
Diagnosed January 2013


 

Hi Sarah

IMO Dengie HiFi Lite is fine, but Dengie Molasses Free better - low sugar/starch, horses seem to love it, nearly all my laminitis rehabs have it.

ForagePlus winter mix, Equimins Mega-bal, Pro Balance + are all good for balancing UK hay - you generally need good levels of zinc, copper, selenium, salt but no iron and probably not manganese. Ideally get hay analysed - ForagePlus do this and suggest minerals needed.

What tests did you have for PPID and what results, and were insulin and glucose tested too?

I'll leave it to the mods to answer your other questions and fully advise on diet.

Andrea
France/UK Jan 2010
www.thelaminitissite.org


sezzie22 <sarahspooner@...>
 

HI Andrea,

Thanks so much for your reply- I will look into all of this. Im starting to worry that the balancer I am using in combination with the Fibre feed is contradictory to her needs (from my reading here)

This is the analytical data of the Baileys Local Balancer pellet:
ANALYTICAL CONSTITUENTSPROTEIN 16%
FIBRE 12%
OIL 4.5%
ASH 15%
CALCIUM 3%
PHOSPHOROUS 1.5%
MAGNESIUM 0.6%
POTASSIUM 1%
COPPER 225 mg/kg
IODINE 3.5mg/kg
IRON 600 mg/kg
SELENIUM 1.7 mg/kg
ZINC 450 mg/kg
MANGANESE 240 mg/kg
BIOTIN 15 mg/kg
VITAMIN A 44,000 IU/kg
VITAMIN D3 4,400 IU/kg
VITAMIN E 800 IU/kg

COMPOSITION Grassmeal, Distillers' Grains, Wheatfeed, Micronised Soya Beans, Dicalcium Phosphate, Molasses, Calcium Carbonate, Vitamins and Minerals, Sodium Chloride, Calcined Magnesite,

ScFOS (Digest Plus prebiotic) 5g/kg

http://www.baileyshorsefeeds.co.uk/whatproduct/general/no14.htm

The mention of Distillers Grains and Grassmeal and wheatfeed and also Soya has be quite concerned!!!!!! I have been doing my best to read as much information as possible on here but need some help!

--- In EquineCushings@yahoogroups.com, "andrealefley" wrote:

Hi Sarah

IMO Dengie HiFi Lite is fine, but Dengie Molasses Free better - low sugar/starch, horses seem to love it, nearly all my laminitis rehabs have it.

ForagePlus winter mix, Equimins Mega-bal, Pro Balance + are all good for balancing UK hay - you generally need good levels of zinc, copper, selenium, salt but no iron and probably not manganese. Ideally get hay analysed - ForagePlus do this and suggest minerals needed.

What tests did you have for PPID and what results, and were insulin and glucose tested too?

I'll leave it to the mods to answer your other questions and fully advise on diet.

Andrea
France/UK Jan 2010
www.thelaminitissite.org


 

Hi Sarah

I used Lo Cal many years ago, but wouldn't now - there's lots in it that you don't need (iron, potassium, lots of vit A) and not much of what you do (copper, zinc, vit E, sodium). You feed fairly small amounts (500-600g/day for a 500 kg horse?) but even so the grassmeal, wheatfeed etc are probably best avoided - better to use straight minerals like the 3 I suggested yesterday.

I'd suggest a diet based on good quality, not too stalky hay with < 10% ESC (soluble sugars) & starch and adequate protein, minerals balanced to it (or to average hays - hays are always low in zinc, copper, sodium, vit E, usually selenium and high in iron, potassium and usually manganese), with at least 25g salt/day and 2000 IU vit E (500 kg horse), 50 - 100 g micronized linseed, HiFi Molasses Free or rinsed/soaked/rinsed sugar beet as a carrier.

Andrea
UK/France Jan 2010
www.thelaminitissite.org


sezzie22 <sarahspooner@...>
 

Andrea

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!
I will get to work on this immediately and begin to introduce asap....now just to find the supplements in Ireland somewhere!!!!

Thank you so much again-I truly appreciate it and Im sure Jenny will too!

Sarah & Jenny
January 2013
Ireland

--- In EquineCushings@yahoogroups.com, "andrealefley" wrote:

Hi Sarah

I used Lo Cal many years ago, but wouldn't now - there's lots in it that you don't need (iron, potassium, lots of vit A) and not much of what you do (copper, zinc, vit E, sodium). You feed fairly small amounts (500-600g/day for a 500 kg horse?) but even so the grassmeal, wheatfeed etc are probably best avoided - better to use straight minerals like the 3 I suggested yesterday.

I'd suggest a diet based on good quality, not too stalky hay with < 10% ESC (soluble sugars) & starch and adequate protein, minerals balanced to it (or to average hays - hays are always low in zinc, copper, sodium, vit E, usually selenium and high in iron, potassium and usually manganese), with at least 25g salt/day and 2000 IU vit E (500 kg horse), 50 - 100 g micronized linseed, HiFi Molasses Free or rinsed/soaked/rinsed sugar beet as a carrier.

Andrea
UK/France Jan 2010
www.thelaminitissite.org


Maggie
 

Please help as a newbie I am literally drowning in a sea of information!!

Hi Sarah!

 

Welcome! You have come to right place for the most best information you can get to help Jenny, and you have already taken some great measures that this group recommends to help her, so GREAT! I see you've read the emergency diet, and have already implemented soaking your hay. I will tell you about the philosophy of this group and let Andrea and others keep helping you with your supplements as I am unfamiliar with the supplements available in Europe. The mantra here is DDT+E. That's Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

Diagnosis: You mentioned that you have a positive Cushing's test. Can you please tell us what test was done, the results, and where it was done? Since Cushing's (PPID) and insulin resistance (IR) can go hand in hand, we also recommend getting an insulin, glucose and leptin when the ACTH is drawn. Do you know if any of those were done as well? Jenny could just have PPID, but she could also have IR along with it, so the treatment really depends on the diagnosis. Pergoliide (Prascend) is the treatment for Cushing's. The study that you linked to was a study done on dogs and horses. Cushing's is a completely different disease in the 2 species and as such, that study was not helpful for determining if homeopathy is useful in equines. There was a recent discussion on the EC list about this very topic. Here is a what Dr. Kellon posted about that study. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/175516 http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/175516

Up to this point, we know that pergolide is the only treatment that controls the ACTH.

 

Diet: The diet we recommend is tested low sugar/starch grass hay with minerals to balance the hay analysis plus Vitamin E, and ground flax seed (known to you as linseed) to replace what is lost in the hay curing process. Also salt--loose as you see in the emergency diet and a plain white salt block available. No red/brown mineral blocks as they contain unknown amounts of minerals and iron and we don't want to give that. Also no grass of any kind, even if it looks dead. No treats such as apples, carrots, and sugary treats. The beet pulp that you are concerned about in the emergency diet is a very small amount--just enough to carry the supplements. Yes, you should put Jenny on the emergency diet. You are already soaking your hay, so that's a great start. Now you need to add the emergency supplements:

Iodized salt - 1 to 2 oz. a day (approximately 1 to 2 heaping Tablespoons). Regular iodized table salt added to the beet pulp is fine. Do not feed kelp with iodized salt.

Magnesium 1.5 grams/day per 500 lbs body weight (only as a short term measure until hay analysis can confirm if it is actually needed or not, and how much). Can use human supplement, or get feed grade magnesium oxide from a feed mill 1/2 teaspoon magnesium oxide provides approximately 1.5 grams magnesium.

Vitamin E 1000 IU/day per 500 lbs body weight (again, human supplement may be easiest, i.e. soft gel caps added to beet pulp)

Flax (linseed) 2-4 oz fresh ground flax seed or use stabilized flax

As I am typing away here, I see that Andrea and you are communicating about supplements. That's great because she is "in your neck of the woods" and familiar to what's available to you. To reiterate--a balanced diet is what you want. The emergency diet is temporary until you get your hay tested. Once you do that, someone can help you to balance the minerals to your hay. As Andrea mentioned, sometimes a "hay balancer" will balance your hay pretty well. But sometimes, you may need more (or less) than what is provided in the product.

 

Trim: The trim is very important but is often the last thing to fall into place. The correct trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs the coffin bone. If you join our sister site, EChoof, you can post pictures of Jenny's feet and one of the hoof gurus can take a look and tell you if you have a proper trim in place and give suggestions for you and/or your farrier or trimmer. There's a file in ECHoof on how to take good hoof pictures. And here's another great place: http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/good-hoof-photos.html http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/good-hoof-photos.html

 

Exercise: Exercise is the best IR buster there is, but a laminitic horse should never be forced to move. With Jenny being overweight, it sounds like she may well be IR. That's why the diagnosis is so important. It's great that you are able to hand walk her. Long straight lines with no tight turns is good. The stiffness that you mention is common in laminitic horses because of the way they hold themselves to help relieve the pain in their feet. She could also have arthritis issues, but you may find that as she gets over her laminitis that she will loosen up and be much better.

 

We know that all this information is overwhelming, and that you can get conflicting information from other sources and even from your vet. Many, if not most of us have been there! You have the experience, information and successes of about 11,000 people on this list! There is lots of information (backed by science) here that you can share with your vet. Keep reading the files. And go here: http://ecirhorse.org/ for some great information for you AND your vet. You will have lots more questions as you learn this new way of horse management, and your friends may well think you are crazy! But let me assure you--the DDT/E philosophy of this group works! So hang in there! Read, read, read! Ask questions! And please do fill out that case history for Jenny! It really helps us have the details that we need to help you help your horse! http://ecirhorse.org/ for some great information for you AND your vet. You will have lots more questions as you learn this new way of horse management, and your friends may well think you are crazy! But let me assure you--the DDT/E philosophy of this group works! So hang in there! Read, read, read! Ask questions! And please do fill out that case history for Jenny! It really helps us have the details that we need to help you help your horse!

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Maggie
 

Hi Sarah!  Welcome


I'm not quite sure what happened to this post.  It looks a bit different than what I actually typed out.  The repeats were not there! :)  Yahoo wo uld not let me "r epl y" so I copied and pasted my reply and sent it through my email.  Anyway, you get the idea!  Just ignore all the repeats!

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Lavinia <dnlf@...>
 

IMO Dengie HiFi Lite is fine, but Dengie Molasses Free better - low sugar/starch, horses seem to love it, nearly all my laminitis rehabs have it.
Hi Sarah,
Glad that Andrea is helping out with this as she is much more familiar with what is available in your "area". Just wanted to mention that the Dengie HiFi Lite contains molasses and is alfalfa based, both of which are not recommended for laminitics. Although alfalfa is generally low in ESC+Starch, it tends to be excessively high in protein and calcium. Many IR/laminitic horses have problems with alfalfa making them footsore.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


 

I agree with Lavinia that it's best to avoid molasses and recommend the HiFi Molasses Free over the Lite:

Hi Fi Molasses Free: sugar 2%, starch 1.5%, so total S/S 3.5%
Protein 10%
DE 2.03 Mcal/kg (8.5 MJ/kg)

HiFi Lite: 5% sugar, 1.5% starch, so total S/S 6.5% (this may be lower now as their DE is lower since Dengie sent me these figures).
Protein 10%
DE 1.8 Mcal/kg (7.5 MJ/kg)

As a comparison, NRC 2007 average unmolassed beet pulp:
Protein 10%
DE 2.8 Mcal/kg (11.7 MJ/kg).
The NRC doesn't give ESC & starch, but Equi-Analytical gives 8.5% ESC and 1.0% starch, Kwik Beet sugar 5% starch 1%, Speedibeet sugar 5% starch 0%.

I will check the calcium content, but I noted with interest recently that, according to the average figures given by the NRC 2007, although alfalfa is higher in calcium than beet pulp (1.47% compared to 0.91%), the calcium:phosphorus ratio is better for alfalfa, at 5.25:1, than beet pulp at 10:1.

A packed liter jug of HiFi MF weighs around 350g, this should be more than enough to carry minerals, so even if pure alfalfa that would add 5g of calcium - but it's a mix of alfalfa and straw, so it won't be that much.

One advantage of the HiFi MF is it contains fenugreek and mint and smells lovely, it's great for hiding nasty tasting minerals!

It can be challenging to give overweight laminitic horses enough bulk to eat without giving them too much energy, and for me the HiFi MF works - I've probably got around 30 recovering/recovered laminitics on it at the moment, and I haven't seen any problems with footiness, they are all doing well. I use both beet pulp and HiFi MF, generally more HiFi for those that need to lose weight, more beet pulp for those that don't.

Andrea
France/UK Jan 2010
www.thelaminitissite.org


Mrozielski <joycemrozielski@...>
 

Hi Andrea,
can we get the Dengie Hi Fi Lite in France? I saw that I can get the Dodson & Horrell Safe and Sound at my local Agrial.
Joyce & Izmir
Normandy, France
2012


 

can we get the Dengie Hi Fi Lite in France?
Hi Joyce

We can in the Charente/Limousin, but it's brought over from the UK, not through a French distributor. However if a French distributor is selling D&H feeds they may be able to get Dengie too. It works out a lot more expensive than local sugar beet - I think we pay around 18 euros for 20 kgs.

You have to watch these supposed "suitable for laminitis" feeds like D&H Safe & Sound - that contains 5% starch and 5% sugar, and Spillers Happy Hoof contains 4% starch and 10% WSC according to Borer 2012.

Andrea
France/UK Jan 2010
www.thelaminitissite.org


sezzie22 <sarahspooner@...>
 

HI All-

Thank you all so much for your valued input and help!!!
Greatly appreciated and I have now devised a plan of action for her.
The Dengie alfalfa she seems to be doing very well on and thankfully she has not become or showing any signs of Laminitis to date- she does and can suffer from foot abscess though and bruises easily! This is something I will monitor VERY closely of course.

I have managed to source a combine3d Vitamin E and Selenium supplement & also Manganese and of course- plain old table sale will suffice for her for now!

The only thing I am struggling to source is ground flax seed (or Linseed as we know it here in Ireland)......what is however no problem to source is FLAX OIL OR LINSEED OIL. IS this an OK substitute??

ALso- does anyone have any knowledge as to whether Ginseng or Oregano are contr indicated for IR or Cushings horses??? (IR HAS NOT BEEN CONFIRMED AT THIS POINT-I HAVE ORDERED REPEAT BLOODS FOR GLOCOSE ETC FROM MY VET WHICH WILL BE CARRIED OUT ASAP)

I am a big believer in Ginseng and as her immune system is so compromised currently and as Echinechea is contraindicated- I wondered if Ginseng would be an acceptable alternative?
Does anyone have any experience of this?
Here is a link to the product I am looking at:

http://www.copa-ireland.com/OreganoOil+Ginseng.html

Many thanks again for all of your help/input and compassion.

Sarah & Jenny
January 2013
IRELAND

--- In EquineCushings@yahoogroups.com, "Lavinia" wrote:


IMO Dengie HiFi Lite is fine, but Dengie Molasses Free better - low sugar/starch, horses seem to love it, nearly all my laminitis rehabs have it.
Hi Sarah,
Glad that Andrea is helping out with this as she is much more familiar with what is available in your "area". Just wanted to mention that the Dengie HiFi Lite contains molasses and is alfalfa based, both of which are not recommended for laminitics. Although alfalfa is generally low in ESC+Starch, it tends to be excessively high in protein and calcium. Many IR/laminitic horses have problems with alfalfa making them footsore.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


zoma <zoma@...>
 

Does anyone know if weeping crud,from the eyes is a a sign of cushings



Sarah & Jenny
IRELAND
Diagnosed January 2013


zoma <zoma@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: sezzie22
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 6:44 AM
To: EquineCushings@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [EquineCushings] New Diagnosis- Baileys LoCal Balancer & Dengie HI FI Lite

Hi All,

I am very new here so apologise in advance if I am doing this incorrectly!!!

I will upload a case history as soon as possible but will give some background information here first!

My 22/23 year old Irish Sport Horse Jenny has recently been diagnosed (bloods confirmed 2 weeks ago) with Cushings.
Up until rencently she was in a loan home (due to my financial constraints) and when I went to visit in early November noticed a number of things which led me to believe she was beginning to show symptoms of Cushings.
As such I now have her in a local Stables boarding.

She is over weight with a compromised immune system (WBC 2.4 (should be between 7-9) and platelets at 58 (170-190 range) These results are from her initial bloods I had carried out in NOvember which produced a FALSE NEGATIVE in relation to her cushings.
I did however immediately put her on a low starch low sugar soaked hay diet as i felt sure this was a false result.
SHe is currently on Dengie HiFI LITE and Baileys Lo-CAL Balancer twice daily as a feed and soaked hay. She is turned out daily in the sand ring with HI FI LITE to nibble on.

She has suffered with a bad foot abscess in November (at the time the bloods were taken) but she was fully sound until last week again when she lamed again having been shod 2 days before.

Does anybody know if these feeds are ok for her??! I read the Emergency Diet file but I am concerned about giving her Beetpulp as in my head as she is so overweight (left out to grass with no restriction in loan home......)it may not be suitable for her??

She has lost weight- but still has a significant belly which i know is also a symptom of cushings also......I do hand walk her in the arena a few times a week but as she is lame again it is difficult for me to help her lose weight whilst being recurrently lame! Vet has said this is not a laminitic situation. I feel it may be a recurring abscess and we are in works to get this out via both Vet and Master farrier.

She is also quite stiff the poor old lady and I would like to commence her on a joint supplement to help her be more comfortable and have found one available with no glucosamine

http://www.copa-ireland.com/Liquiflex.html
Your opinion would be much appreciated in this as I am reading so much information in relation to conflicting information about what is safe and not safe for her I have confused myself!!!
The vet has commenced her on a herbal alternative for the cushings called ACTH & Quercus Robur I have found limited clinical research in relation to this but did find this particular paper with results:

http://www.bahvs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Cushings-Research.pdf

She has now been on this diet since November and the ACTH & Quercus Robur for 2.5 weeks.

Could anyone please steer me in the correct direction in relation to what I should be supplementing her with? Vitamin E Magnesium Oxide Flax etc? Should I move her to the Emergency Diet components? Can I give her a supplement for her joints as linked above??

Please help as a newbie I am literally drowning in a sea of information!!

your help would be hugely appreciated.

Sarah & Jenny
IRELAND
Diagnosed January 2013


Rebecca Marment <r_marment@...>
 

Hi Sarah

I feed my boy Dengie HiFi Lite which I was told to feed by my vet. In the UK the feed of choice seems to be HiFi Lite for horses with laminitis. My boy seems to be doing ok on it, but as it contains alfalfa and the group does not recommend alfalfa, I am too am a bit confused, especially as it is approved by the laminitis trust. I was going to swap him to the molsasses free one, but then noticed that this feed contains 6.5% soya oil, whereas the lite is only 1.5%. I am trying to keep my boy at the weight he is, so think (but could be wrong) that I will be increasing his calories by feeding the molasses free. The molasses free is also higher in digestible energy.

Why are feeds so difficult!?

Rebecca and Hutch
United Kingdom
September 2012

-----Original Message-----
From: zoma
Sent: 26/01/2013 03:08
Subject: Re: [EquineCushings] New Diagnosis- Baileys LoCal Balancer & Dengie HI FI Lite

-----Original Message-----
From: sezzie22
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 6:44 AM
To: EquineCushings@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [EquineCushings] New Diagnosis- Baileys LoCal Balancer & Dengie HI
FI Lite

Hi All,

I am very new here so apologise in advance if I am doing this incorrectly!!!

I will upload a case history as soon as possible but will give some
background information here first!

My 22/23 year old Irish Sport Horse Jenny has recently been diagnosed
(bloods confirmed 2 weeks ago) with Cushings.
Up until rencently she was in a loan home (due to my financial constraints)
and when I went to visit in early November noticed a number of things which
led me to believe she was beginning to show symptoms of Cushings.
As such I now have her in a local Stables boarding.

She is over weight with a compromised immune system (WBC 2.4 (should be
between 7-9) and platelets at 58 (170-190 range) These results are from her
initial bloods I had carried out in NOvember which produced a FALSE NEGATIVE
in relation to her cushings.
I did however immediately put her on a low starch low sugar soaked hay diet
as i felt sure this was a false result.
SHe is currently on Dengie HiFI LITE and Baileys Lo-CAL Balancer twice daily
as a feed and soaked hay. She is turned out daily in the sand ring with HI
FI LITE to nibble on.

She has suffered with a bad foot abscess in November (at the time the bloods
were taken) but she was fully sound until last week again when she lamed
again having been shod 2 days before.

Does anybody know if these feeds are ok for her??! I read the Emergency Diet
file but I am concerned about giving her Beetpulp as in my head as she is so
overweight (left out to grass with no restriction in loan home......)it may
not be suitable for her??

She has lost weight- but still has a significant belly which i know is also
a symptom of cushings also......I do hand walk her in the arena a few times
a week but as she is lame again it is difficult for me to help her lose
weight whilst being recurrently lame! Vet has said this is not a laminitic
situation. I feel it may be a recurring abscess and we are in works to get
this out via both Vet and Master farrier.

She is also quite stiff the poor old lady and I would like to commence her
on a joint supplement to help her be more comfortable and have found one
available with no glucosamine

http://www.copa-ireland.com/Liquiflex.html
Your opinion would be much appreciated in this as I am reading so much
information in relation to conflicting information about what is safe and
not safe for her I have confused myself!!!
The vet has commenced her on a herbal alternative for the cushings called
ACTH & Quercus Robur I have found limited clinical research in relation to
this but did find this particular paper with results:

http://www.bahvs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Cushings-Research.pdf

She has now been on this diet since November and the ACTH & Quercus Robur
for 2.5 weeks.

Could anyone please steer me in the correct direction in relation to what I
should be supplementing her with? Vitamin E Magnesium Oxide Flax etc? Should
I move her to the Emergency Diet components? Can I give her a supplement for
her joints as linked above??

Please help as a newbie I am literally drowning in a sea of information!!

your help would be hugely appreciated.

Sarah & Jenny
IRELAND
Diagnosed January 2013



[The entire original message is not included.]


Lavinia <dnlf@...>
 

Hi Sarah,
The weeping/runny eyes can be either PPID(Cushings) or IR. Do you have a case history up for Jenny yet? I'm trying to remember if there has been bloodwork done on her.
The Liquiflex supplement you were considering for her stiffness issues would NOT be suitable for an IR horse as it has a sugary base (dextrose) and contains MSM and vit C. All of these are contra-indicated for IR.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Lorna <briars@...>
 

..... but as it contains alfalfa and the group does not recommend alfalfa, I am too am a bit confused, especially as it is approved by the laminitis trust.

Hi Rebecca,

Please take another second before hitting Send and delete the old messages from your new one,in the future.


Not all of our horses have a reaction to alfalfa but some do.Enough cases have been mentioned of foot soreness/heat that we need to keep it high on the list of items to watch out for.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


sezzie22 <sarahspooner@...>
 

Hi All,

Apologies for any confusion but the below post in relation to weeping crud was not posted by me it was from "Zoma" who must have added/forgotten to delete my signature from her/his post. (See below)

Sarah & Jenny
IRELAND Diagnosed January 2013

--- In EquineCushings@yahoogroups.com, "zoma" wrote:

Does anyone know if weeping crud,from the eyes is a a sign of cushings



Sarah & Jenny
IRELAND
Diagnosed January 2013