Hi, Folks. Sabrina is having real problems again. I just read the article re the study done @ Michigan State in "The Horse" about the correlation of IR and high iron. It made me revisit the test we sent to Kansas last May. Reference mess. #168372 and Dr. K's answer in #168377. Sabrina was tested for lyme - negative. She got ever so much better during the summer, all without any diet change, then started downhill again this winter.

After reading the Michigan paper and looking at her ferritin results, I contacted the Kansas lab yesterday, and a very nice doctor explained to me that the iron results are in the blood. The ferritin results are the iron stored in the body such as bone marrow, etc.

I've been searching the files with a very defective computer so I'm probably getting defective results, but can't really answer my own question. Sabrina gets 12 250 mg NatureMade brand "people" magnesium oxide tablets daily. I'm reading this may contribute to her iron.

She gets approximately 9 lbs ODTB cubes divided into three meals, which I see on the tag also has magnesium. Her hay tested for iron at 129 ppm or 58 mg/lb as sampled from Equi-Analytical. The mag results are 18% or .79 g/lb as samples. It's about impossible for me to calculate the quantity of hay she's getting, because both she and Magic waste a large amount throwing it out of their slow feeders, and never eating it. It's not been their favorite hay.

I can't believe that iron overload is a 100% cause of this latest episode because she did so well over the late summer and fall, but wonder if it's an additional trigger to the winter stresses.

Anyway, question is, should I stop adding her magnesium to her diet daily?

Thank you.

Gayle and Sabrina
3/06
Fairview, TN
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Sabrina/

No. Do not stop magnesium. I would switch to a different form of magnesium that contains less iron. Try an archive message search on Magnesium carbonate.

You need a full diet analysis to see what she is and is not getting for balanced minerals.

Are you still on the herbs?

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

PS --- "The Horse" is late to this. Dr Kellon and this group has pioneered much of the iron and IR discussion over the last ten or so years.

See Iron folder in the files and Dr Kellon's 2006 presentation.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

PS --- "The Horse" is late to this. Dr Kellon and this group has pioneered much of the iron and IR discussion over the last ten or so years.

I know this, Nancy. That's why we had her tested much against our vet's advice last May. As I said, the article made me revisit Sabrina's test results, and wonder again, since even Dr. Kellon seemed surprised by the readings.

See Iron folder in the files and Dr Kellon's 2006 presentation.

I've tried to pull these articles up, but everyone comes back to me "document not found". As I said, I'm having computer trouble, so I'm sure it's at my end.

When I search for magnesium carbonate for sale online, it seems that most businesses are carrying it paired with other things - calcium, vit. something, whatever. Maybe I don't understand what it is, but I was looking for a "pure" mag carbonate. Is this wrong?

Gayle and Sabrina
3/06
Fairview, TN
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Sabrina/

Sorry. Don't remember. Re the iron testing - Surprised how?

Sent you privately the info from the files.

Have purchased pure mag carbonate at http://www.nutrabio.com/ or http://purebulk.com/

Need to have your diet reviewed. Go here to see who can help you with that. Or check out Dr Kellon's courses.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/7%20Help%20with%20Mineral%20Balancing/

Have not gone to look at the Case History. Is it up to date with current feeding, as well as any additional herbal remedies and supplements?

Would be helpful to know that.

I'm truly sorry she's not doing well.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

Sorry. Don't remember. Re the iron testing - Surprised how?

Read message #168377 for Dr. K's comments.

Sent you privately the info from the files.

Thank you!

Have purchased pure mag carbonate at http://www.nutrabio.com/ or http://purebulk.com/

Will go to these sites after we come in from the barn tonight.




It's hard to update current diet. As I said, no way I can estimate amount of hay, which is probably half of her diet. I can post report from E-A, but don't have a clue how much she's consuming.

Gayle and Sabrina
3/06
Fairview, TN
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Sabrina/

--- In EquineCushings@..., "sunshine12982000" <ourmagicboy@...> wrote:

As I said, the article made me revisit Sabrina's test results, and >wonder again, since even Dr. Kellon seemed surprised by the readings.

Not surprised. I was pointing out that because the transferrin saturation is not high, the ferritin could be a false positive and related to inflammation or infection, not iron overload.

It's not unusual for horses with a history of chronic laminitis to have problems over the winter. The transition of the ovaries this time of year and into spring also causes problems for some mares.

However, as a start you need to go back to the basics of DDT. If that foundation is not intact, you can't get control. There are no magical supplements that can bypass that base.

We can estimate her hay intake from her weight.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001

Not surprised. I was pointing out that because the transferrin saturation is not high, the ferritin could be a false positive and related to inflammation or infection, not iron overload.

Sorry. I misspoke when I said "surprised".

However, as a start you need to go back to the basics of DDT. If that foundation is not intact, you can't get control. There are no magical supplements that can bypass that base.

Our management of her DDT has not changed. Her feet are a work in progress, but I guess all horses' are. They are in ever so much better shape than they were last year. Her diet is still very tight, no pasture access at all, tested hay, ODTB cubes soaked, the only treat an occasional dry ODTB cube hand fed. Her mag, vit. E, al-car, flax seed, right now Microlactin. We don't even feed the beet pulp anymore, because we can keep a tighter control on the diet. The exercise was doing OK until this all started. Now, of course, that's out the window.

We can estimate her hay intake from her weight.

How do we do this? I can weigh a bale, figure we go through it in approximately one day for two horses, but the waste is not to be measured. Please tell me how to make this estimate from her weight. Thank you.

Gayle and Sabrina
3/06
Fairview, TN
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Sabrina/