What's the Difference?


lauramollrich
 

I am thoroughly confused regarding compounded Pergolide vs. Pergolide Mesylate.  Pabatsa is currently on 3.5 mg. of Pergolide capsules. The cost has increased so I have been looking on the group list for a pharmacy that supplies 30-days at a time.  The other pharmacy would only sell me 100 at a time. Because they degrade after 30 days, I was wasting a lot of money throwing the remainder away.

 

Some of the group members use Pet Health because their prices are more affordable.  This morning I received a phone call that my Pergolide Mesylate was ready. Just to be sure before shipping, I asked the doseage.  I was told that I would be getting a 30-day supply of 4.6 mg. Pergolide Mesylate.

 

I am confused, is there a difference here and is it safe for Pabatsa?  Currently his ACTH is good and within normal limits.  I need to know this before calling the pharmacist back for approval.

 

Thanks!

Laura, Laguna Beach,CA

1/2012

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Laura%20Mollrich/


dnlf@...
 

Hi Laura,

  Pergolide Mesylate is the name of the active ingredient in the capsules, tablets, liquid, wafers, Prascend, etc. Shortening the name to just pergolide is the common way to refer to it.

 

  The dose your capsules have been compounded in is what the script was written for. If this is different than what Pabatsa was getting previously it means that your vet wrote the script for a different amount. You would need to ask your vet to explain why this change was made.

 

  I use Pet Health for my pergolide scripts and have had no issues with them at all.

 

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team


Pergolide vs. Pergolide Mesylate.  Pabatsa is currently on 3.5 mg. of Pergolide capsules.

>that my Pergolide Mesylate was ready. Just to be sure before shipping, I asked the doseage.  I was told that I would be getting a 30-day supply of 4.6 mg. Pergolide Mesylate.

 

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Laura%20Mollrich/


Leigh Jacobs
 

Hi Laura,
Pergolide Mesylate(PM) is the chemical compound that is used to create our compounded products and Prascend.  When you look at PM, it is the salt of pergolide.  The ratio of pergolide to pergolide mesylate is 1.0/1.31  Therefore, if you want 1 mg of pure pergolide you need to make that capsule with 1.31mg of pergolide mesylate.  If you take the amount they quoted to you of 4.6mgPM and divide it by 1.31mg PM, it will give you ~ 3.5mgs pure pergolide. I hope that kind of simplified it???  It is just understanding the numbers and their relationship.  When I talk to the pharmacists at Pet Health, I have to know what my vet wants our clients to have in end product (pure pergolide).  When that is clear, the pharmacists do their calculations to create the end product.
Leigh, Ace and Shadow
Tucson AZ
2011



On Monday, November 4, 2013 11:16 AM, "lauramollrich@..." wrote:
 
I am thoroughly confused regarding compounded Pergolide vs. Pergolide Mesylate.  Pabatsa is currently on 3.5 mg. of Pergolide capsules. The cost has increased so I have been looking on the group list for a pharmacy that supplies 30-days at a time.  The other pharmacy would only sell me 100 at a time. Because they degrade after 30 days, I was wasting a lot of money throwing the remainder away.
 
Some of the group members use Pet Health because their prices are more affordable.  This morning I received a phone call that my Pergolide Mesylate was ready. Just to be sure before shipping, I asked the doseage.  I was told that I would be getting a 30-day supply of 4.6 mg. Pergolide Mesylate.
 
I am confused, is there a difference here and is it safe for Pabatsa?  Currently his ACTH is good and within normal limits.  I need to know this before calling the pharmacist back for approval.
 
Thanks!
Laura, Laguna Beach,CA
1/2012



lauramollrich
 

Hi Lavinia,

 

I just got off the phone with one of the pharmacists at Pet Health.  I think I finally understand all of this..I think :)   The problem for me is that my brain is stuck in a different system of measurement.  It seems to me like most of the group has horses on .75; 1.0; 2.0 3.5 mgs, etc.  I don't think I have ever heard of 4.6 mgs (3.5 mgs. with Precision Pharmacy) like what will be prescribed for Pabatsa if I go with Pet Health.

 

Precision Pharmacy told me they use a Pergolide base?

 

My vet's assistant told me this morning that it took him 30 minutes to do the conversion (I don't think he knew the formula because he is mostly on the Prascend protocol these days.)

 

So, how do I/my vet control which dosage for Pabatsa in regards to increasing/decreasing dosage? 

 

Laura, Laguna Beach, CA

1/2012


Skylane <skylane@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@yahoogroups.com, <lauramollrich@...> wrote:


I am thoroughly confused regarding compounded Pergolide vs. Pergolide Mesylate. Pabatsa is currently on 3.5 mg. of Pergolide capsules. The cost has increased so I have been looking on the group list for a pharmacy that supplies 30-days at a time. The other pharmacy would only sell me 100 at a time. Because they degrade after 30 days, I was wasting a lot of money throwing the remainder away.

Some of the group members use Pet Health because their prices are more affordable. This morning I received a phone call that my Pergolide Mesylate was ready. Just to be sure before shipping, I asked the doseage. I was told that I would be getting a 30-day supply of 4.6 mg. Pergolide Mesylate.

I am confused, is there a difference here and is it safe for Pabatsa? Currently his ACTH is good and within normal limits. I need to know this before calling the pharmacist back for approval.

Thanks!
Laura, Laguna Beach,CA
1/2012
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Laura%20Mollrich/ http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Laura%20Mollrich/


lauramollrich
 

Hi Lavinia/Group/Dr, Kellon,


Ok so I switched pharmacies and went to Pet Health.  I was using Precision Pharmacy in Sacramento.  My vet told me that he had talk with each pharmacy to make sure P got the continued current dose of 3.5 mg capsules.


My vet also told me that Precision was using the base of pure Pergolide and Pet Health uses Pergolide Mesylate.  I just received my new script from Pet Health and it was for 4.6 mgs.


My question is this:  When I started giving P the new 4.6 mgs. from the new pharmacy he became lethargic.  Is it possible he is going through another Pergolide veil?  I am currently giving him 10 ml of APF Pro.  Should I  increase it?


We are going to re-test his levels for ACHT/Glucose/Insulin/Leptin next week.


Laura, Laguna Beach CA

1/2012


http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Laura%20Mollrich/

 


PapBallou@...
 

 



---In EquineCushings@..., <lauramollrich@...> wrote:

Hi Lavinia/Group/Dr, Kellon,


Ok so I switched pharmacies and went to Pet Health.  


-

When did you switch?


Linda

EC Primary Response

West Coast

May 2004 and have no idea why this font change keeps following me around!

---In equinecushings@..., <dnlf@...> wrote:

Hi Laura,

  Pergolide Mesylate is the name of the active ingredient in the capsules, tablets, liquid, wafers, Prascend, etc. Shortening the name to just pergolide is the common way to refer to it.

 

  The dose your capsules have been compounded in is what the script was written for. If this is different than what Pabatsa was getting previously it means that your vet wrote the script for a different amount. You would need to ask your vet to explain why this change was made.

 

  I use Pet Health for my pergolide scripts and have had no issues with them at all.

 

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team


Pergolide vs. Pergolide Mesylate.  Pabatsa is currently on 3.5 mg. of Pergolide capsules.

>that my Pergolide Mesylate was ready. Just to be sure before shipping, I asked the doseage.  I was told that I would be getting a 30-day supply of 4.6 mg. Pergolide Mesylate.

 

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Laura%20Mollrich/


lauramollrich
 

He will be getting his 4th dose today.


Laura, Laguna Beach CA

1/2012 

---In EquineCushings@..., <lauramollrich@...> wrote:

Hi Lavinia/Group/Dr, Kellon,


Ok so I switched pharmacies and went to Pet Health.  


-

When did you switch?


Linda

EC Primary Response

West Coast

May 2004 and have no idea why this font change keeps following me around!


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 


---In EquineCushings@..., <lauramollrich@...> wrote:

My vet also told me that Precision was using the base of pure Pergolide and Pet Health uses Pergolide Mesylate.  I just received my new script from Pet Health and it was for 4.6 mgs.


--------------

All pergolide is pergolide mesylate. There is no such thing as pure pergolide. You have increased his dose by just over 1 mg so yes,the reaction is probably to the drug.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001

---In equinecushings@..., <dnlf@...> wrote:

Hi Laura,

  Pergolide Mesylate is the name of the active ingredient in the capsules, tablets, liquid, wafers, Prascend, etc. Shortening the name to just pergolide is the common way to refer to it.

 

  The dose your capsules have been compounded in is what the script was written for. If this is different than what Pabatsa was getting previously it means that your vet wrote the script for a different amount. You would need to ask your vet to explain why this change was made.

 

  I use Pet Health for my pergolide scripts and have had no issues with them at all.

 

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team


Pergolide vs. Pergolide Mesylate.  Pabatsa is currently on 3.5 mg. of Pergolide capsules.

>that my Pergolide Mesylate was ready. Just to be sure before shipping, I asked the doseage.  I was told that I would be getting a 30-day supply of 4.6 mg. Pergolide Mesylate.

 

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Laura%20Mollrich/


Donna Powell
 

I cannot seem to see this.  I tried Show Message History.  Could you explain the difference between Pergolide and Pergolide Myselate?

 

Donna Powell, Ulysses, Rolex

Southern Coast of SC

May 2011

---In EquineCushings@..., <lauramollrich@...> wrote:

My vet also told me that Precision was using the base of pure Pergolide and Pet Health uses Pergolide Mesylate.  I just received my new script from Pet Health and it was for 4.6 mgs.


--------------

All pergolide is pergolide mesylate. There is no such thing as pure pergolide. You have increased his dose by just over 1 mg so yes,the reaction is probably to the drug.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Donna Powell
 

Sorry...cancel this request...somehow I now can see/read it.

Donna Powell, Ulysses, Rolex

Southern Coast of SC

May 2011 

---In EquineCushings@..., <drkellon@...> wrote:

---In EquineCushings@..., <lauramollrich@...> wrote:

My vet also told me that Precision was using the base of pure Pergolide and Pet Health uses Pergolide Mesylate.  I just received my new script from Pet Health and it was for 4.6 mgs.


--------------

All pergolide is pergolide mesylate. There is no such thing as pure pergolide. You have increased his dose by just over 1 mg so yes,the reaction is probably to the drug.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


lauramollrich
 

Hi Dr. Kellon,


I am still totally confused because one of the members posted that if I want pure Pergolide there is a formula. Please read the post her by Leigh Jacobs.  It does seem like she may have a point because my vet said he spend 1/2 an hour figuring out the calculation that Leigh mentions. What do I tell both my vet and Pet Health?


Pabatsa was getting Precision Pharmacy's 3.5 now Pet Health is dispensing 4.6.


Thanks,

Laura in CA

1/2012

---In EquineCushings@..., <lauramollrich@...> wrote:

My vet also told me that Precision was using the base of pure Pergolide and Pet Health uses Pergolide Mesylate.  I just received my new script from Pet Health and it was for 4.6 mgs.


--------------

All pergolide is pergolide mesylate. There is no such thing as pure pergolide. You have increased his dose by just over 1 mg so yes,the reaction is probably to the drug.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Lorna Cane
 

 Hi Laura,


You may have missed this response from Dr. Kellon,on November 28:


"All pergolide is pergolide mesylate. There is no such thing as pure pergolide. You have increased his dose by just over 1 mg so yes,the reaction is probably to the drug."


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup


---In equinecushings@..., <drkellon@...> wrote:

---In EquineCushings@..., <lauramollrich@...> wrote:

My vet also told me that Precision was using the base of pure Pergolide and Pet Health uses Pergolide Mesylate.  I just received my new script from Pet Health and it was for 4.6 mgs.


--------------

All pergolide is pergolide mesylate. There is no such thing as pure pergolide. You have increased his dose by just over 1 mg so yes,the reaction is probably to the drug.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Hi Lorna,


I am really  confused about the pergolide mesylate  thread. 


Below is Leigh's post:  


Pergolide Mesylate(PM) is the chemical compound that is used to create our compounded products and Prascend.  When you look at PM, it is the salt of pergolide.  The ratio of pergolide to pergolide mesylate is 1.0/1.31  Therefore, if you want 1 mg of pure pergolide you need to make that capsule with 1.31mg of pergolide mesylate.  If you take the amount they quoted to you of 4.6mgPM and divide it by 1.31mg PM, it will give you ~ 3.5mgs pure pergolide. I hope that kind of simplified it???  It is just understanding the numbers and their relationship.  When I talk to the pharmacists at Pet Health, I have to know what my vet wants our clients to have in end product (pure pergolide).  When that is clear, the pharmacists do their calculations to create the end product.



Is Dr. Kellon's response saying that the pharmacists do not need to do a calculation to create an *end dosage* or in another version of the question is that a prescription for pergolide is a prescription for pergolide myselate and their is no calculation for elemental pergolide?  


Did Laura's vet up Pabasta's pergolide dosage based on symptoms or based on the pharmacy's calculations?


Sorry for the large print I have no idea how to change it.....


Thank you,


Kathy Brinkerhoff


10/12 *confused* SE/WI 




---In equinecushings@..., <drkellon@...> wrote:

---In EquineCushings@..., <lauramollrich@...> wrote:

My vet also told me that Precision was using the base of pure Pergolide and Pet Health uses Pergolide Mesylate.  I just received my new script from Pet Health and it was for 4.6 mgs.


--------------

All pergolide is pergolide mesylate. There is no such thing as pure pergolide. You have increased his dose by just over 1 mg so yes,the reaction is probably to the drug.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


lauramollrich
 

My vet's office told me that he wrote the script for 3.5 mgs. of Pergolide.  However, they also said that he spent 30 minutes trying to figure out a calculation.  What's up with that?  Pabatsa's ACTH is within the normal limit so there was no discussion of raising the amount past 3.5 mgs.


Laura, CA

1/2012 

---In equinecushings@..., <drkellon@...> wrote:

---In EquineCushings@..., <lauramollrich@...> wrote:

My vet also told me that Precision was using the base of pure Pergolide and Pet Health uses Pergolide Mesylate.  I just received my new script from Pet Health and it was for 4.6 mgs.


--------------

All pergolide is pergolide mesylate. There is no such thing as pure pergolide. You have increased his dose by just over 1 mg so yes,the reaction is probably to the drug.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


lauramollrich
 

Hi Lorna,


Yes, I did see Dr. Kellon's reply however if you read Leigh's post it makes sense as to what happened with Pabatsa's script.  They converted, some how, the script from 3.5 mgs. to 4.6 mgs. Could my vet have inadvertently done the calculation and sent it that way?  His office told me they sent it to Pet Health as 3.5 mgs.  My vet said that the Pergolide from Precision was pure Pergolide, did they tell him that?  It seems I do remember them telling me that they use the Pergolide base--who knows at this point!  I believe Dr. Kellon more than the rest of them though.  I called the laboratory that makes Pergolide for sale worldwide and they told me that EVERYONE gets Pergolide mesylate and there is no pure Pergolide.


Laura, CA

1/2012


I have never seen a 4.6 mg, dosage though. 

---In equinecushings@..., <kathbrink@...> wrote:

Hi Lorna,


I am really  confused about the pergolide mesylate  thread. 


Below is Leigh's post:  


Pergolide Mesylate(PM) is the chemical compound that is used to create our compounded products and Prascend.  When you look at PM, it is the salt of pergolide.  The ratio of pergolide to pergolide mesylate is 1.0/1.31  Therefore, if you want 1 mg of pure pergolide you need to make that capsule with 1.31mg of pergolide mesylate.  If you take the amount they quoted to you of 4.6mgPM and divide it by 1.31mg PM, it will give you ~ 3.5mgs pure pergolide. I hope that kind of simplified it???  It is just understanding the numbers and their relationship.  When I talk to the pharmacists at Pet Health, I have to know what my vet wants our clients to have in end product (pure pergolide).  When that is clear, the pharmacists do their calculations to create the end product.



Is Dr. Kellon's response saying that the pharmacists do not need to do a calculation to create an *end dosage* or in another version of the question is that a prescription for pergolide is a prescription for pergolide myselate and their is no calculation for elemental pergolide?  


Did Laura's vet up Pabasta's pergolide dosage based on symptoms or based on the pharmacy's calculations?


Sorry for the large print I have no idea how to change it.....


Thank you,


Kathy Brinkerhoff


10/12 *confused* SE/WI 





Lorna Cane
 

HI Kathy,


I can't speak for what the others have said/done.Sorry.


Maybe we'll hear from Dr. Kellon.She has a way of sorting things out.:)


Print size was fine.You never know with Yahoo's brilliant(NOT) new format.


 Lorna in Ontario,Canada

ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup




---In equinecushings@..., <drkellon@...> wrote:

---In EquineCushings@..., <lauramollrich@...> wrote:

My vet also told me that Precision was using the base of pure Pergolide and Pet Health uses Pergolide Mesylate.  I just received my new script from Pet Health and it was for 4.6 mgs.


--------------

All pergolide is pergolide mesylate. There is no such thing as pure pergolide. You have increased his dose by just over 1 mg so yes,the reaction is probably to the drug.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Lorna Cane
 

 Hi Laura,



>. Could my vet have inadvertently done the calculation and sent it that way? 


Only your vet knows this answer.


>  My vet said that the Pergolide from Precision was pure Pergolide, did they tell him that?


Again,sorry,but you need to ask your vet that question.


> I called the laboratory that makes Pergolide for sale worldwide and they told me that EVERYONE gets Pergolide mesylate and there is no pure Pergolide.


Bingo.

I think Dr. K. already told us that :)




Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup


---In equinecushings@..., <lauramollrich@...> wrote:

My vet's office told me that he wrote the script for 3.5 mgs. of Pergolide.  However, they also said that he spent 30 minutes trying to figure out a calculation.  What's up with that?  Pabatsa's ACTH is within the normal limit so there was no discussion of raising the amount past 3.5 mgs.


Laura, CA

1/2012 


Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

 All pergolide dosing recommendations refer to mg of pergolide mesylate. Doses described in the literature and on drug packaging refers to pergolide mesylate. For example,  1 tablet of Prascend has 1 mg of pergolide mesylate, not 1 mg of pergolide as pergolide mesylate. A prescription for 1 mg of pergolide is for 1 mg of pergolide mesylate.



Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001



---In equinecushings@..., <drkellon@...> wrote:

---In EquineCushings@..., <lauramollrich@...> wrote:

My vet also told me that Precision was using the base of pure Pergolide and Pet Health uses Pergolide Mesylate.  I just received my new script from Pet Health and it was for 4.6 mgs.


--------------

All pergolide is pergolide mesylate. There is no such thing as pure pergolide. You have increased his dose by just over 1 mg so yes,the reaction is probably to the drug.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


lauramollrich
 

When I went to the stable today I pulled the Pergolide bottle from Precision Pharmacy out of the fridge to see exactly what is written on the label.  This is what it says, "3.5 mgs. of Pergolide as Pergolide Mesylate."


Why do they have it as such?


Laura in California

1/2012 

---In equinecushings@..., <drkellon@...> wrote:

---In EquineCushings@..., <lauramollrich@...> wrote:

My vet also told me that Precision was using the base of pure Pergolide and Pet Health uses Pergolide Mesylate.  I just received my new script from Pet Health and it was for 4.6 mgs.


--------------

All pergolide is pergolide mesylate. There is no such thing as pure pergolide. You have increased his dose by just over 1 mg so yes,the reaction is probably to the drug.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001