Chaste Berry Powde / new question on this topic


bigwhitevan2002
 



When is the  best time to test for ACTH  in northern hemisphere? and if you are using CTB how long before blood work do you need to take them off so as not to skew the results , or do I need to remove the CTB at all?, I'm  waiting for the optimal time to pull blood on my mare, so as to get the best idea of what is going on with her so I can act accordingly..
Julie
Oregon 06
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Kayla%20scribbles%20oregon/


>>>>>>If you are going the Chaste Tree Berry route, make sure you are testing ACTH at minimum in the spring and especially going into the fall for control during seasonal rise.



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Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Julie,

Testing in Aril/May will tell you what the the ACTH is during the time of year when it should be at it's lowest. It is good for getting a baseline reading and to monitor whether you may be able to lower pergolide dose during this time vs the dose needed for good control during the seasonal rise period.

Testing in Aug tells you whether the equine is starting it's seasonal rise early or not. If it has started, it gives you a heads up that perg dose needs to start/increase to get/maintain control and prevent other issues from developing (laminitis/founder).

Testing in Oct lets you know where you stand on control during the time of the highest ACTH values. ACTH plateaus, then starts to drop off in normal horses, while PPID ones will tend to top out and maintain that elevated level far longer or may not drop at all.

Part of the answer would depend on why you are using the CTB. If it is to treat known PPID then you would leave the horse on it so you know whether it is doing anything to actually control the disease or not. Stopping the herb/drug would tell you what your values are without any possibly mitigating substances on board. Danger would be if it is controlling any symptoms, those could escalate. Time for withdrawal is unknown but effects of perg are gone in about two weeks so that would seem to be a reasonable time frame.

If CTB was started without any diagnostic testing for PPID then it's murky as you don't know whether there actually is PPID, or whether the CTB is effecting control of PPID, or whether there is early PPID that only shows up during the fall seasonal rise with no current effect from the CTB.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Kayla%20scribbles%20oregon/


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bigwhitevan2002
 




Well , that clears it up.......ummmm....lol.
i will pull her off the CTB and test her ACTH in the next couple of weeks and see where we are at, not going to do insulin etc.  no need , and the results wont change how I manage her, I know she is IR with a high risk...and money is tight now...
Thanks for the guidelines..
Julie 
Oregon 06

>>>>>>>>>>If CTB was started without any diagnostic testing for PPID then it's murky as you don't know whether there actually is PPID, or whether the CTB is effecting control of PPID, or whether there is early PPID that only shows up during the fall seasonal rise with no current effect from the CTB.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team



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Sara Gooch
 

Lavinia,

This following sentence from your post confuses me. It seems to contradict the info in the files and archives that conclude the CTB might alleviate PPID symptoms, but that it does not lower ACTH.  Your recent  post that CTB, might effect control of PPID, implies then that CTB CAN lower ACTH?  Or?
From your post: "If CTB was started without any diagnostic testing for PPID then it's murky as you don't know whether there actually is PPID, or whether the CTB is effecting control of PPID, or whether there is early PPID that only shows up during the fall seasonal rise with no current effect from the CTB."

I understand that CTB can lessen the symptoms of PPID, but have group members here found that CTB has actually significantly lowered ACTH?

Thanks for any clarification that anyone can offer--


Sara, NE California, 2011




Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Sara,

In general, CTB has not been found to control ACTH effectively (if at all), esp over the long haul. Whether it MIGHT effect some control early on is unknown. Therefore, if a suspected PPID horse has been put on CTB before any diagnostic bloodwork has been done there is the potential that it is influencing the results. This is why it is always preferable to do basic bloodwork before initiating any systemic treatment - not always possible, but preferable.

As is so often the case, there needs to be more research done.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team