LeAnne! help load a file... Introduction, Help w/loading history, Vet Search

Mandy Woods

Hi Rita,
Welcome to the list.   I can’t help you load your CH but I know who can!   I’ll flag this for LeAnne our resident techie. 
Thank you for reading and organizing your Morabs history.  Houdon is blessed with the double whammy being both Arab and Morgan.   Now the good news.....yes this is doable and yes rotation and sinking is repairable.   It will take time and dedication which we see you have.   So first things first ......DDT/E.
DIAGNOSIS  you have.  Cornell agrees he’s PPID/IR.  One mg of Prascend may not be enough to get his ACTH in the middle to lower range set by Cornell.  We are in the season right now when all horses in this hemisphere have naturally low ACTH.  The flip side of this is it starts climbing in August so you want to get him in the normal range instead of chasing the numbers.  Both of these conditions,  PPID and IR are progressive.   Pergolide treats Cushings.  DIET manages IR>
IR horses should be fed a low sugar/starch forage with minerals balanced to your hay assay.  Have you tested your hay yet?  We recommend the lab at Dairy One.  The test we recommend is the Trainer # 603 for $54.   Stock up on grass hay – timothy or orchard grass – when it comes in.  If the sugar is over 10% you can always soak the hay for one hour in cold water.  This reduces sugar up to 30%.  However there are hays out there that no matter how much you soak it still wont come down to a safe level!  Alfalfa is not recommended because a chemical in the hay causes some horses foot soreness.   Triple Crown Lite can be used as a seasoning over rinsed/soaked/rinsed beet pulp.  The other TC products have more s/s/fat than we like.   Fat should not exceed 4%.  Fat worsens IR.  The major portion of his diet should be forage.  The ODTB cubes are the best.  You can even soften them by misting water on them.  I don’t think Stabil 1 has much alfalfa in it but if your boy is allergic to alfalfa then  don’t serve it!  Farmers are starting to see there is a need for ‘’horse hay’’.   Ask a farmer to cut a row of timothy or OG for you before the sun comes up.  That’s when the sugar is lowest in the plant.  Voila!  Horse hay!   I bought hay that had been rained on last year.  Voila!  Horse hay!  It was cured very well. You may have to purchase your own hay, test it and take it to Houdon.   Or feed the ODTB cubes exclusively.
Its hard to find a vet today that is interested in older horses and their needs.    You may end up interviewing quite a few.   You should ask them if they would write a script for  compounded pergolide since your horse will be on this for the rest of his life and the dose will go up.     You need a vet who is open minded and  will listen to our philosophy.  If you have a potential one send him/her this site..........  www.ecirhorse.org    We understand the situation you’re in. We’ve been there!   Many of us are trimming our own horses too. 
Trim and Exercise complete the 4 points  that must happen to have positive results.   I would pull him out of the shoes and get a balanced trim- aligning the coffin bone to the hoof capsule -  from xrays.  Put him in his Soft Rides when he needs them.  Send your photos of his feet and his xrays to ECH8 (I know ~ when its up!) so our hoof gurus can do markups for you and help your trimmer  or farrier to understand what is needed.  Plan on a minimum of 12 months to get everything back in order.     Exercise of hand walking is better than no exercise.  Listen to your horse.
Rita,  Houdon needs more calories if he’s down to a 4 to 4.5 body condition score.   I would make him a nice meal of r/s/r beet pulp.  You can season this with pellets of timothy or OG from Tractor Supply.   Feed more ODTBc’s.  He needs 2% his body weight a day in dry hay.  Can he chew hay?  IF its untested soak it for one hour pouring off the water where he cant get to it.  Start the Temporary Emegency DIET and get the minerals at Walmart – Vitamin E,  loose iodized table salt,  magnesium and flax.   What does he weigh today?   If you feed him cubes 5 days out of the week what does he get the other two days?   He should get no grass,  leaves, apples, carrots, treats etc.   Muzzle him if he wants to join his buddies. Tape the muzzle hole closed. 
Here are some  links to help you on the next step. 
Hang in there ~ you are doing a great job!
Keep asking questions.  You will have pleanty of help here.  And yes,  test for Lyme at Cornell. 
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003

Rita Creitz

Hi Mandy,

Thanks for such a detailed reply.  I definitely think I'm on the right track and have already learned a lot since I've started reading.  Houdon has been out of shoes since mid-Feb and is doing well, wearing his SoftRides when he tells me he needs to. To date, no abscesses (Yay!)

On the exercise, I try to work him at liberty on the perimeter of our very large arena for 25-30 minutes w/t (mostly walk) in his SoftRides about 4-5 times week...he's so good....bless him.  I'm careful to stay away from small circles, etc.  He frequently volunteers trots.

On the hay analysis, I saw a post by Kathleen, who's helping me with the balancing, and as she said, we're working on figuring out the huge discrepancy in analysis results on the starch....done by two labs but still, one said 2.3 starch, EA said >10!!!  So we're working on that.  Then we can get the diet balanced properly.  

To get Houdon more safe calories, you mentioned r/s/r beet pulp.  How much, by dry weight, do I need to feed him?  I'll give it a go.

Thanks again.  This is a journey....an up and down ride....so I'm glad there's so many on the train with me!

Rita and Houdon
Gaithersburg, MD
Sept 2013

Mandy Woods

The train is full!   You are not alone!!
Generally speaking we recommend up to 30% of their daily feed can be dry BP.     That’s a lot of BP but the good news is you can prepare it in advance and freeze bags of it for the  convience of the barn staff. 
I used the lab in Cumberland Valley once.   They withheld information and did not voluntarily inform me of what type of testing they offered (NIR or Wet Chem)   It turned out to be an exercise I didn’t need!
I remembered another feed in our area that is safe to feed.  Especially if you need extra calories.   Soy Hull Pellets.   If you call the Culpeper Farmers Cooperative , they have 5 stores in VA  that carry it.       The number is  540-825-2200.  One pound should  not change the balance that Kathleen is working on for you.    And of course there is Stabul 1.   more cubes and soaked/drained hay. 
Hang in there.

Rita Creitz

Hi Mandy,

Thanks for the suggestion about the Soybean Pellets.  Never heard of it...that's why this group is so full of great info.  I called the Culpeper Coop this morning to see if they knew of a supplier near my area, but they did not.  The closest store to me (and it's really not that close) is the one in Marshall, VA.  For now, I'm going to file it away as a possibility.  Sent in another hay sample to EA yesterday and we'll see what the starch results are this time.  

Re the Stabul 1 as a possible feed, I'm a little nervous about it since Houdon is borderline allergic to alfalfa, which is the 3rd ingredient in it.  

Remember I was looking for a new vet?  Found one!!  She checked out the ECIR website, was familiar w/ Dr. Kellon's work, and is OK with writing a script for compounded pergolide....has used ThrivingPets herself.  My other vet prescribed only Prascend.  She's is coming next week to meet Houdon, take blood for ACTH, insulin, glucose, leptin, and Lyme....all going to Cornell.  The rapport was quickly established between us.  I am so relieved.  

Another thanks to LeeAnne for uploading my CH.  I'll try again to get pics there, too.  

Rita and Houdon
Gaithersburg, MD
Sept 2013 (I think)

Lorna Cane


>Thanks for the suggestion about the Soybean Pellets. 

Just to clarify  that it's the soy HULL pellets we recommend,as opposed the the soybeans themselves.
Soybeans can be a problem for our metabolic  horses.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*


Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  



There is .625 lbs of alfalfa in a 50 lb.


No.IL 9/10

Rita Creitz

Yes, sorry, I knew that but wasn't clear in my response.
Rita and Houdon
Gaithersburg, MD
Sept 2013

Rita Creitz

Thanks!  That's not much at all!  Then that may be a good alternative for him.  

Rita and Houdon
Gaithersburg, MD
Sept 2013