Ofeig


s.coombes1@...
 

I got Ofeigs x rays done. Blood tests are back so I will put them with the history as an update. The summary is that Liphook do fasting levels Glucose 5 and insulin7 (normal 5.6 and 10 respectively), ACTH 22.3 (n= greater than 29) triglycerides 0.72 (n= greater than 0.7). They advise a glucose tolerance test. Apparently 1/4 of IR shows on fasting levels 3/4 on the tolerance test. I know it's not called that in equines so used to doing the human one. T4 was 14.8 (n=12-31). She is doing well losing crest.

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A different vet did the x rays. He is an equine lameness vet. comments were no rotation, good sole depth, trim ok, hooves look normal, slight pulses might be normal for her. Stall rest 4 weeks with bute 2 without. Then in hand 4 wekks before riding on a soft surface. She may need shoeing in the long term. I don't think the latter is a good idea.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/144114069

One more thing to mention. Hell of a lot of white clove in the paddock. One is at least 60%. I noticed they had eaten it down hard before they went down. Just done module 5 of ECIR course and Dr Kellon makes a brief mention thet it causes laminitis. For uk students this ought be in big red letters. I didn't know it was toxic. Many people don't know that it causes laminitis and tying up as well as photosensitivity. They got diarrhoea on it and I'm sure it caused this episode.

Freckles history to follow

Both are really well now no pulses hooves cool eyes bright and in no pain


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Susan,

We do not recommend using fasting results as many times they give you false negatives. That she is on an IR type diet could also have influenced those results. Glucose Tolerance tests are an accurate test but can be dangerous to IR horses as ingesting the glucose can cause an insulin spike that will bring on laminiits. Being as Ofeig is an Icy I would be treating her as if she is IR just to be on the safe side.

The problems she was having before you acquired her may have been due to something called Maladaptive Chronic Stress Response. She was imported from Denmark as a breeding prospect, correct? If she is not actually IR, this may be what is still causing her health problems.

In her history you mention she's had lamintis before. Also skin allergies, udder enlargement, lethargy, touch-me-nots, ravenous appetite. These are classic for IR and diet imbalances. The Dengie healthy Hooves has higher oil, alfalfa (which can makes many horse foot sore), garlic (which causes Heinz Body anemia in horses). Recommend stopping it.

The Benevit Advance has added iron (no adult horse needs it), iodine (your hay is already high in it). If you have an analysis of the hay it would be better to have a custom mix made than trying to use an off-the-shelf product. With a sugar+starch of 9.9% it just sneaks in under 10% - would soak for now just to be on the safe side. NO pasture unless you put her out with a sealed muzzle on so she can socialize and get some exercise.

As she has no rotation and laminitis seems to have passed, we do not recommend bute for more than a week as it interferes with healing after that. Stall rest is not needed as she has no ongoing foot issues, tho keeping her in a paddock area where she cannot get to running around is advised. Gentle exercise - not forced - will help both her attitude and her health. Cannot see why shoes would be in her future.

Posting some hoof pics in your photo album would be helpful. The xrays are taken at an odd angle and do not tell you anything about what the foot looks like when it is weight bearing. It appears that she may have coffin bones that are ground parallel at rest, which would make them go into a negative plane on weight bearing. This is not ideal.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

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s.coombes1@...
 

Thanks Lavinia, I am awaiting a new hay batch that has tested 6% for sugar. I am going to send a sample off to Forage plus and get them to make a balancer while I spend time studying up the NRC course and contemplating whether I really want to do the balancing myself. Just understanding may be sufficient for me at my advancing years!

 I have to admit that re the trim I usually give the heels a little more leeway with a couple of millimetres of growth as I have found she is more comfortable. I agree they are a little low at the moment. I took them down a bit more when in fact they hardly ever need trimming.

Thanks for info re the HH and benvit. I will stop them. I was already worried about the oil being rape oil (hydrogenation and trans fats) and the garlic after reading Getty's book and was tempted to stop it.

(I have worked as a family Dr for many years and have been very uneasy about the amount of carbohydrates and vegetable oils in the supermarkets contributing to the explosion in type two diabetes. As the diabetic lead in our practice I was being overwhelmed and had to retire early. It felt like I was just catching Lemmings and putting them back on the cliff facing the edge.)

I will stop the bute and put her out with a no grass adapted muzzle on  for a couple of hours a day bringing her in for hay.

I wish I could persuade my vet to do the non-fasting test. I will have to stand my ground and I think I will win because he only has to do one draw. I could have tricked him by not fasting her I guess but it isn't in my nature.

As you say she may as well be treated as IR because she probably is.

Glad you agree re the shoes. She was sound enough to do ten mile rides a few weeks ago with a group of endurance riders. I would be worried that shoes would mask the laminitis and it would therefore present late. Also I wouldn't get to see the bottom of the hoof or get a farrier to come out often enough. I was left 12 weeks frequently then the farrier nippered off the hoof wall and half inch of sole, rasped it all flat leaving the heels to go under. Shoes put on that kind of work would be even more shocking.

Can you please tell me or give references/links to info re maladaptive chronic stress response?


Sue Coombes and Ofeig

Lincolnshire


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s.coombes1@...
 

I have loaded up photos of the whole horse and the hooves. I don't know if I did it right as some photos are missing but maybe it takes time to upload. I can't get the blood results to go on the history. Maybe I have to put them on my copy and upload again?


Lorna Cane
 



Hi Susan,

>I have loaded up photos of the whole horse and the hooves. 

Don't forget to sign your messages, adding the photos link  so we know where to find them.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
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Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Susan,

Do you subscribe to Dr. Kellon's e-zine The Horse's Mouth? There was an article in the Sept 2013 issue on the maladaptive chronic stress response. Adaptogens are the go-to: APF (Auburn Labs) or Jiaogulan were the two mentioned.

http://www.drkellon.com/thehorsesmouth.html

The trim is pretty nice overall. I can totally see why she would prefer leaving the heels higher - they are too low in relation to her toe height. When you look at the dorsal hoof wall and it appears to have a bull nose configuration - sorta bulges a bit, then moves back in, as it travels from the coronary band to the ground - that indicates that the rear of the coffin bone may be sitting lower than the leading edge. This is not what you want happening. Need to drop the height in the front or get the heels back up to the correct, relative height. It's a balancing act. Here's the link to your photos:

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Lavinia, Dante, George Too and peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team



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Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Susan,

You can either upload the entire lab report as a document or you need to ad the lab result numbers to your copy of the case history then upload the new version and delete the old one. You can't make changes to the copy in the file.

The photos are all there, just not showing up in theoverall  album/photostream view. If you click on the blank space it will enlarge the photo that is there. Why??? Only Neo knows for sure....

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team



Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Susan,

Here is a link to a brief description of Maladaptive Stress response in Humans:

Swedish Medical Center Seattle - Classes & Resources

Here is a more detailed one:

http://anthropology.ua.edu/bindon/ant570/Papers/Robertson/Robertson.htm

And more from Dr. Kellon:

In horses, the depression (which is chemically caused by cortisol) and increased susceptibility to infections and/or development of allergies are virtually identical. These horses are often misdiagnosed as EPSM, put on a high fat diet and the diet aggravates the mild IR from elevated cortisol enough to produce mild laminitis. I've seen this often enough that the first question I asked when I hear the story is “Was the horse imported?”. This horse is now doing very well on a low sugar starch diet and APF.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


 


s.coombes1@...
 

thanks Lavinia,

I agree that is what she had. I called it stress diarrhoea (like IBS) and she used to sweat up too like she's all soaped up in the shower in a trailer. I got her loading up nicely at several times but the journey makes her ill. I can't imagine what it must be like to be imported. I am going to try again but very slowly with short journey and me in the trailer with her. I'll get some APF from forage plus.

Sue Coombes and Ofeig

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