Testing blood glucose with a glucometer


lomeiko
 

Hi all!!


Read in Dr. Kellon's IR course that it is possible to test horse's blood glucose level with a glucometer to find out if the horse gets enough carbs to replenish glycogen.


My horse is on hay-only diet (due to high body score and crest), but she also exercises pretty much.  So I was wondering what's a technique of using glucometer on a horse.


Has anyone done it?


Thanks in advance!


Ekaterina and Belka (Moscow, Russia)

March 2013

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory7/files/Ekaterina%20and%20Belka%2C%20Russia/



Maggie
 

>Read in Dr. Kellon's IR course that it is possible to test horse's blood glucose level with a glucometer....
 
Hi Ekaterina,
I have done it.  I used the outside edge of the inside of Chancey's nostril to get a drop of blood.  He would jump a bit when poked, more like startled than pain, tho I'm sure it did hurt a bit.  I probably did it about half a dozen times because his initial glucose came back a little high when I first tested him for IR and I wanted to make sure he was not consistently high.  I never got a high reading again, and stopped testing him.  I'm sure every horse would react differently to being stuck.  I used a regular stick pen that comes with the glucometer.
 
Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/


 


sally.stork
 

MM
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My vet told me its possible to test glucose of a horse using the glucosometer but not need it due to IR horses glucose is normal even in high insulin--maybe use if cushings when it can be up. If your horses glucose is normal, I would not poke its nose, Sally Elkton,MD, member since 2009.


Nancy C
 

Hi Sally

Do you or your vet pretty please have a reference for PPID = high(er) glucose? Or does she mean when the PPID is not under control?

Some of us have glucose outside the range of normal, with PPID under control. We want to check often.

To Ekaterina's point, she's looking for a view of nutrition and exercise in an IR horse.

I could not find the blood spot on his nose.  Finally a forward thinking vet taught me to pull my own blood. 

Sally, please share this with your vet. Or better yet ask her to join this group for a comprehensive view of what is going on with these horses all over the world.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
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---In EquineCushings@..., <sally.stork@...> wrote :

 

My vet told me its possible to test glucose of a horse using the glucosometer but not need it due to IR horses glucose is normal even in high insulin--maybe use if cushings when it can be up.


Lorna Cane
 

 

>My vet told me its possible to test glucose of a horse using the glucosometer but not need it due to IR horses glucose is normal even in high insulin--maybe use if cushings when it can be up.


Hi Sally,


This Group recommends testing glucose,along with insulin and leptin.


I'm not familiar with high glucose being associated with PPID. Where did your vet learn that?


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
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lomeiko
 

Maggie, thank you very much!  
Nostril seems good to be able to find this drop of blood!  I'll try that!
My only concern is that 3 tests are needed: one before exercise, one - right after exercise and the final one - 15 minutes after exercise...

I'm wondering if I'm able to get more than one with my mare :)))

Another spot that just came to my mind is right under the tail! :))  (it's hairless there... :)))



Maggie
 

You're welcome Ekaterina! 
 
Ha!  I'd be a bit (or a lot!) more cautious back there in the kicking zone!  Hope all goes well.
Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/


 


Lorna Cane
 

>Another spot that just came to my mind is right under the tail! :))  (it's hairless there... :)))

I would think it's a lot more tender there than the nostril,though.

It's also an area - behind the horse- which could make your mare reluctant to have any more work done back there in the future.

I'm thinking of something as simple as taking temperatures.


Maybe I'm being alarmist, but it may be worth rethinking.




Lorna in Ontario,Canada
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fionn@...
 

Tried that (under the tail). Skin is too thick. The nose was about the only place I could get it but Fionn hated it so much I quit. 

Michelle Peck Williams & Fionn
Lexington, Kentucky USA
June 2012




 

Where in the IR class was the reference to testing with glucometer?   

We have a horse in my equine rescue, currently at foster home that has erratic instances of uncontrollable behavior. 

We had a vet come out and draw non fasting blood for  IR, ACTH and one of the types of EPSM (cant remember which).  Waiting for results.  This am he was a complete basket case, but nothing in the diet or housing has changed.  Bulging, wild eyes, and extremely excited.  Similar to human diabetics with low blood sugar.  But I believe he has enough free choice hay to last thru the night in his stall/pen, which is dry lot. 

I am considering testing something we can on a daily basis to see if there is a pattern and the only thing I can think of is glucose with a human glucometer. 

He is on an IR diet, with minerals balanced to the hay.  We ran out of mineral the day before, so he has only been without one day.  Mineral deficiency is cu/zn and phos.  Giving a little extra wheat bran to try to make up some phos.  I cant imagine one day without custom mineral would make this much difference.  He still gets iodized salt, mag ox, flax and 5000IU vit e for the suspected EPSM.

Other than using a glucometer to check daily glucose or even multiple times a day to look for a pattern, is there anything else we can track or check for ourselves?  Urine perhaps like human diabetics?

I know until we get blood results there are no firm answers.

Debora
2/2012


sally.stork
 


My

 

My vet told me can not give wheat bran to a EPSM horse--huge carbs----maybe he is tying up ? Vet can pull muscle tests on blood, Sally, Elkton ,MD since 2009


Nancy C
 

Hi Deborah

I can't answer your Dx questions but can speak to glucometer use. I do it often b/c my boys glucose is elevated. 

If you do an advanced archive search here using Dr Kellon as the author you'll find a bunch of messages on glucomter use.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

If you can grab a CBC and Chemistry from the sample(s) you sent in, it might point to something.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
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Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 




---In EquineCushings@..., <layzd@...> wrote :

Where in the IR class was the reference to testing with glucometer?   



sally.stork
 

 

 

 

Lorna:  I found in the merck veterinary manual(can google) ---I punched in equine cushings and got nothing, then punched in equine ppid, sent me to adenoma of pars intermediate--there it is ---"hyperglycemia." I asked my vet why in cushings?

high acth makes high cortisol and cortisol makes  high glucose.

So if high glucose then probably is NOT controlling cushings---I asked and a glucosometer might help a lot in letting know cushings is not being controlled if high glucose, Sally, Elkton,MD since 2009


 


Nancy C
 

Hi Sally

It also says quote:

Hyperglycemia and insulin insensitivity are suggestive of pituitary adenoma in horses, but because they occur in horses with equine metabolic syndrome or other insulin dysregulation syndromes, they are not diagnostic of PPID.

Lorna here's the link.

Hirsutism Associated with Adenomas of the Pars Intermedia: The Pituitary Gland: Merck Veterinary Manual

 

My horse has high glucose even when PPID is controlled.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 






 


sally.stork
 

Nancy:  ok, I was thinking you were talking about a cushings horse with high glucose. If its got metabolic disease AND cushings, that is another deal and I can ask her about that. Sorry for the confusion, Sally, Elkton,MD 2009


Lorna Cane
 

>Lorna:  I found in the merck veterinary manual(can google) ---


Sally?

Was I part of a glucose/glucometer discussion?

Sorry.I'm not following you .


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
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sally.stork
 

 

 

 

 

Lorna: I think it was about where did you see high glucose in cushings? from earlier note.

Another reference from vet:

1.Tufts Veterinary school---equine section from Head of equine Dr. Franks--2013, Equine Endocrine Group---hyperglycemia is onlist of signs.

2.Dr. Schott Michigan State 2002---Vet clinics of north America aug 18(2) 237-70. Hyperglycemia as a sign.

Vet said its not specific to just that but to say hyperglycemia is not a possible cushings sign is incorrect, Sally,Elkton,MD2009


Lorna Cane
 


Lorna: I think it was about where did you see high glucose in cushings? from earlier note.


Ah,yes,back in June.


Sally can you provide the links .There's just not enough time to search through the data you referenced.I've tried.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc




sally.stork
 

I have to say, I do not know how to link stuff---tech challenged, Sally, Elkton,MD 2009


Nancy C
 

Morning Sally

My horse IS a PPID horse.  His ACTH is controlled during seasonal rise on 12 mg of pergolide.  His glucose and insulin are still high. Hopefully working on his CH today to update and will post so you can see.

Your vet....she really needs different input as do so many who are confused about PPID and IR.  Have asked many times that you invite her to join this list so she (and you) can see what is possible.

Just a reminder


The Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance (ECIR) Group was started in 1999. It is the largest field trial database for PPID and IR in the world.

The mission of the ECIR Group Inc. is to improve the welfare of equines with metabolic disorders via a unique interface between basic research and real-life clinical experience.  Prevention of laminitis is the ultimate goal. The ECIR Group serves the scientific community, practicing clinicians and owners by focusing on investigations most likely to quickly, immediately and significantly benefit the welfare of the horse.

Not even universities can or do compile and follow long-term as many in-depth case histories of PPID/IR horses as the ECIR Group does.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 



---In EquineCushings@..., <sally.stork@...> wrote :

Nancy:  ok, I was thinking you were talking about a cushings horse with high glucose. If its got metabolic disease AND cushings, that is another deal and I can ask her about that. Sorry for the confusion, Sally, Elkton,MD 2009