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Omega 3 and Vit E
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jannepauli@...
Can someone help me with a calculation? If you have one capsule of Omega 3, combined with Vit E, containing: Omega 3 1000mg and Vit E 10mg ( EPA 33%, DHA 22%) ... how many capsules should a horse then get per day in the case of accute laminitis, and how many per day in a non-acute phase Note: For human nutrition support: one capsule per day Thanks all! Marianne The Netherlands EC 2011 |
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Hi Marianne.
I'm on the run but don't see this as an effective method of delivery. For the Vit E here's how to convert mg to IU http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminE-HealthProfessional/
For the Omegas...you need both omega 3s and 6s. Here's message that may help https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/160088 Six of you caps will give you about the same Omega 3s as flax. You want the Omega 3 and 6 ratio to be about 4:1 If I'm right about the conversion of mg to IU in the above link, you will get very little Vit E. Need to know more about the Case. Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot. www.ECIRhorse.org Check out the FACTS on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/equine-cushing-s-and-insulin-resistance-group-inc
---In EquineCushings@..., <jannepauli@...> wrote : ... how many capsules should a horse then get per day in the case of accute laminitis, and how many per day in a non-acute phase |
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lars_a_swe
---In EquineCushings@..., <threecatfarm@...> wrote : For the Vit E here's how to convert mg to IU http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminE-HealthProfessional/ - - - - - - Just a warning: The conversion rules given on this web site are incorrect. This web site implies that synthetic forms of alpha-tocopherol have higher biological activity than the natural form. This is not true. Since the omega-3 contains EPA and DHA the source is fish oil. It may be OK to give a horse fish oil, but I would prefer to use flaxseed oil or ground flaxseed instead.
Lars Sweden, July 2008 |
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Thanks once again for keeping me honest Lars.
Wanted to make the point that the method of delivery in question was not optimal. This may be a better site. Or perhaps you have a better one for us lay people. How do I convert International units (IU) to mcg or mg?
For those trying to figure out what to buy, just a reminder the recommendations here of 500 IU per 250 kg of BW are based on synthetic form of Vit E. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/160746
Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot. www.ECIRhorse.org Check out the FACTS on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
Just a warning: The conversion rules given on this web site are incorrect. |
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lars_a_swe
---In EquineCushings@..., <threecatfarm@...> wrote : > Wanted to make the point that the method of delivery in question was not optimal. I certainly agree with this. > This may be a better site. Or perhaps you have a better one for us lay people. There is a huge problem with conversion rules for different forms of vitamin E. Most web sites actually are incorrect. Even Wikipedia is incorrect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_unit “Vitamin E: 1 IU is the biological equivalent of about 0.667 mg d-alpha-tocopherol (2/3 mg exactly), or of 0.45 mg of dl-alpha-tocopherol acetate.” The conversion of natural d-alpha-tocopherol is correct, i.e. 1 mg is equal to 1.5 IU. The synthetic form of vitamin E that is commonly used is dl-alpha-tocopheryl acetate because this form is more stable. 1 mg of dl-alpha-tocopheryl acetate is equal to 1 IU. Theoretically, the natural form of d-alpha-tocopherol is 1.5 more potent than synthetical dl-alpha-tocopheryl acetate. However, KER claims that studies show even higher potency for the natural form: http://www.ker.com/library/proceedings/04/VitaminE_p73.pdf Lars Sweden, July 2008 How do I convert International units (IU) to mcg or mg?
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Hi Lars and all
I need to correct my dosing statement of yesterday I had per 250 kg of Body weight. It should be 500 IU per 250 lb of body weight. We may be losing folks who trying to decide what to do in the weeds, so want to explain the dosing above is based on using the synthetic form. Cost was also a factor in this recommendation. Taking a look at Puritan for example, the natural is some 44% more expensive. Other sources may be even more cost effective. NRC lists natural at 1.36 more bioavailable. For budgeting purposes the synthetic may make more sense and, if dosed as above, most horses will get the amount they need. Many folks use the natural or micellized Vitamin E. The most important thing is to have the Vit E in oil. Soy oil s most commonly used in Vit E caps. Soy oil is not an issue due to the small amount used. Dr Kellon has also pointed out that phytoestrogens are removed from soy oil. For those of you who are members of ECHorsekeeping, there is a good review of Vit E recs in the FILES section. Thank you Cheryl! (Once there, scroll down) https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHorsekeeping/files
Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot. www.ECIRhorse.org Check out the FACTS on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/equine-cushing-s-and-insulin-resistance-group-inc
How do I convert International units (IU) to mcg or mg?
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llkeach50
What is the dosage for Natural Vit. E? I did not see it in the
files in EC Horsekeeping. I am unable to do the conversion......1.36% more
available means nothing to me. :)
Linda K
Dec 2003 |
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Hi Linda,
Did you scroll down to Vit E Recommendations? Lorna
in Ontario,Canada https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy. http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc
>What is the dosage for Natural Vit. E? I did not see it in the
files in EC Horsekeeping. |
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Hi Linda
If you use NRC bioavailability rates and to me it means natural is a little more than one-third more available, so to me the theory is that you should be able to use one third less than synthetic. Lars has pointed out other bioavailability numbers. Because my aging brain can only hold so much info and to avoid confusion at my house, I use the previously stated recommendation regardless of the form. Getting a little more in the system for my guys is not a worry for me. Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot. www.ECIRhorse.org Check out the FACTS on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/equine-cushing-s-and-insulin-resistance-group-inc
---In EquineCushings@..., <LLKeach@...> wrote : What is the dosage for Natural Vit. E? |
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beverly meyer
If we are feeding flax, doesn't that give sufficient fats for the E to absorb?
Since Vitamin E is fat soluble, we need fat. Is the flax sufficient or must the E be purchased in an oil cap? Thanks, Beverly 5/14 -- Beverly Meyer, MBA Clinical and Holistic Nutritionist www.ondietandhealth.com Facebook: Beverly Meyer on Diet and Health Radio: Primal Diet - Modern Health |
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Hi Marilyn, Here is most of message 15302,from ECHorsekeeping(Link in earlier message). Dr. Kellon addresses feeding oil and E together: The only fat present in the digestive tract is fat from the diet. Feeding E in oil, or premixing powdered dry E with oil before feeding, eliminates the need for E and fat to find each other before bile salts can turn the complex into micelles for absorption." Eleanor http://www.drkellon.com Lorna
in Ontario,Canada https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy. http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc
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lars_a_swe
---In EquineCushings@..., <threecatfarm@...> wrote : > If you use NRC bioavailability rates and to me it means natural is a little more than one-third more available, so to me the theory is that you should be able to use one third less than synthetic. You have to be careful with statements like this. Normally, the vitamin E content in a capsule is given in IU and there is no difference between e.g. 400 IU of synthetic form of vitamin E and 400 IU of the natural form. Both have the same biological activity. However, the capsule containing the synthetic form of vitamin E will be larger since it contains a larger amount of fluid. Lars Sweden, July 2008 |
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lars_a_swe
---In EquineCushings@..., <LLKeach@...> wrote : > What is the dosage for Natural Vit. E? I did not see it in the
files in EC Horsekeeping. I am unable to do the conversion......1.36% more
available means nothing to me. :) The requirement for vitamin E is given in IU so the requirement is the same regardless of what form of vitamin E you are using. Basically, Dr. Kellon recommends 4 IU/kg BW for IR horses. Lars Sweden, July 2008 |
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lars_a_swe
---In EquineCushings@..., <threecatfarm@...> wrote : > NRC lists natural at 1.36 more bioavailable. I did respond to this but my response seems to have been eaten up by Yahoo neo. Here it is again. Sorry if it will appear twice. 1.36 is the conversion factor for natural d-alpha-tocopheryl acetate. There are different forms of natural and synthetic forms of vitamin E all with their individual conversion factor. However, most of the time the vitamin E content in a capsule is given in IU, e.g. 400 IU, and then you don’t need to do any conversion. 400 IU of a synthetic form is just as potent as 400 IU of a natural form. It’s only when the vitamin E content is given in mg (milligrams) that you have to convert mg to IU. Lars Sweden, July 2008 How do I convert International units (IU) to mcg or mg?
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OK I get it. Thank you Lars.
So it would appear we have come full circle and that the main consideration left in what to choose is the cost factor. General recommendation from ECIR is 1000 lb horse gets 2000 IU.Make sure it is in oil Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot. www.ECIRhorse.org Check out the FACTS on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
---In EquineCushings@..., <spottythehorse@...> wrote : Normally, the vitamin E content in a capsule is given in IU and there is no difference between e.g. 400 IU of synthetic form of vitamin E and 400 IU of the natural form. Both have the same biological activity. However, the capsule containing the synthetic form of vitamin E will be larger since it contains a larger amount of fluid. |
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Joan and Dazzle
I think this is an important topic. Lars is right.
1 iu = 1 iu This already takes into account the differences in biological activity between synthetic vitamin E and the natural vitamin E. I also think that it's very important that when we make recommendations on the list, that we attempt to be as accurate as possible. At that point, the horse owner can make up their own mind as to their course of action, based on accurate information. Great catch, Lars. Joan and Dazzle Anaheim, CA 2006 |
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Oh I couldn't agree more! Thank you so much Joan for the confirmation and instruction for folks like me who don't have the units of measurement nailed down as well as you and Lars. As I have stated, I was inaccurate in my one-third speculation and the use of the link to figure out how to configure mg vs IU.
Let me ask again, perhaps you have a good conversion link for us? To the original question as previously stated, my point, although not made as clearly as possible, was that the product in question was not a good delivery of the amounts needed. I was as accurate as I could be at the time but thank you for your observation. Again, the resulting conversation brought us full circle: rule of thumb recommendation for Vit E is 500 IU per 250 lb of body weight. Please see emergency diet. Thanks again Joan. As I said to Lars, I always appreciate being kept honest for the benefit of our members. Look forward to seeing you more often. Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot. www.ECIRhorse.org Check out the FACTS on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
---In EquineCushings@..., <horsies4luv@...> wrote : I also think that it's very important that when we make recommendations on the list, that we attempt to be as accurate as possible. At that point, the horse owner can make up their own mind as to their course of action, based on accurate information. |
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lars_a_swe
---In EquineCushings@..., <threecatfarm@...> wrote : > Let me ask again, perhaps you have a good conversion link for us? - - - - - - Here is an excellent article about vitamin E: http://www.vitaflex.com/res_vitepow3a.php and the conversion factors given in the article are correct. Lars Sweden, July 2008
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Thank you Lars. I put the URL in the LINKS section so we will all remember it is there when this thread comes up again.
Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance
Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot. www.ECIRhorse.org Check out the FACTS on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
**************** Here is an excellent article about vitamin E: http://www.vitaflex.com/res_vitepow3a.php and the conversion factors given in the article are correct.
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