Lumps on my mare biopsied and inconclusive results


misyrabi
 

 I received the results from the 2 masses on my mare, Bahj-Rha and I am not sure if this is something to worry about or not.

 

The results from all 3 masses were inconclusive.  The description of the material is dense necrotic fibers indicating an infection.  Cancer could not be confirmed or ruled out.

 

The first mass is under her jaw where the lymph nodes are located, easily palpable and soft.  When you palpate it, there is no pain.  But soft like a lipoma.  The tissue was collected with needle aspiration.

 

The second larger mass close to the skin is about 3 1/2 inches in diameter and about an inch thick.  We took 2 samples from the middle of the mass.

 

The third mass under the second one has bone/calcified material deposited in the muscle fibers.

 

With the results coming back as inconclusive, worries me a bit.  I am on the fence regarding whether to remove them or not.  At 28 years old, I don't want to cause her more pain with repeated surgeries.   

 

In my research, I think this type of tumor/cancer is really slow and is not as a worry as lymphosarcoma.

 

I am slowly weaning my mare into her pergolide and she appears to be tolerating it well and she is starting to run about more chasing the younger horses at meal time.  

 

I have the farrier coming out to trim her up this week so we can get a look at her angles and see how she is doing.  But no sign of foot pain at all.

 

I tried to upload an update case history to the echistory8 page but yahoo won't let me load anything into it.  I am not sure if I am doing anything wrong or not.

 

Anyway - just wanted to give a quick update on the biopsy results.  If it is cancer, there is not a lot I can do other than spoil her rotten and keep her as comfy as I can.


Lorna Cane
 

Hi Marion,

Can we sweet talk you into signing your messages every time you post?

Name,address,location,and when you joined us . Please also add you case history link,which is https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Marion%20and%20Bahj-Rha/

It's good she is adapting to the pergolide.How much is she receiving?

I'm sorry I can't add anything wrt the lumps.


 Lorna in Ontario,Canada

ECIR Moderator 2002
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misyrabi
 

Sorry about that.  I brain farted signing correctly this time.  Too much stress going on right now with my mare, and my other 4 animals that are in end of life stages.

 

Bahj is getting 1/2 tablet or 0.5 mg of pergolide at present.  By August 18, she should be on the full 1 mg tablet once per day.  I am increasing dosage 1/8th of a gram every 4 days.

 

Marion Buntyn

Bennett, Colorado

May 2014


Lorna Cane
 

Marion,I can't remember your CH link, but didn't I see that the ACTH was somewhere in the 400 range?
Which lab was that?

Just asking because if it were me, and there weren't extenuating circs., I would want to be getting beyond 1 mg of pergolide as soon as I could.

Not sure what you mean by 'increasing dosage by 1/8 gram........' Probably you meant 1/8 mg?
Are you diluting tab in water and breaking down the liquid amount in syringe to get these small amount in?


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
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>Bahj is getting 1/2 tablet or 0.5 mg of pergolide at present.  By August 18, she should be on the full >1 mg tablet once per day.  I am increasing dosage 1/8th of a gram every 4 days.

 



misyrabi
 


Lorna,

 

The lab that performed the Blood test was Cornell.  And if memory serves it was 409 mg/ml. 

 

The reason we are going real slow regarding increasing the dosage was that when my vet first gave me the meds, they wanted me to give her 1 pill once per day and she did not respond well.  So I restarted her 2 weeks ago by cutting the pill in 1/8 segments and increasing the dosage every 4 days by 1/8 of a pill.  It is easier for me to manage the weaning this way.

 

I give her the medication in a 20 cc tube of applesauce.  The pill is in the middle and I place it on the back of her tongue so she will swallow it.  If I wet down grain and put the pill in that way, she will refuse to eat.  The tube of applesauce is the better delivery vehicle.

 

By increasing dosage by going in 4ths, nothing gets wasted and she acts like she can deal with it better that way.  Its all for her quality of life, right?

 

I understand the point of going up as fast as possible, but given my horses colic history, it really is not worth the risk of another bout of colic. 

 

Then add in the inconclusive biopsy of her lumps and given that they may or may not be cancer, it wont hurt her any if we take our time to get up to the full tab dose.  The tabs are 1mg per tab.  Please bear with me.  I am a nerd heart and soul, but the emotion of my baby possibly having cancer on top of cushings is pretty hard to bear so fine details are not first in my brain.

 

My vet is amazing and I am working with her on the details of how much how often, etc.  What I hope to get from this board is what others experience.  What works and what doesn't and hopefully this cancer scare is not as bad as I think it is. 

 

If I had a choice of dealing with one or the other, I would take the one that gives her the most quality of life possible.  

 

I hope that makes sense.  The data and research is important as it will impact horses in the future, but today for me its about her.  It sounds like the added cancer issue is not common with other cushingoid horses.  That was my original question. 

 

Sorry.

 

Marion Buntyn

Bennett, Colorado

May 2014

 

 

 

 


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Marion,


I'm a bit confused. Are you cutting the pill into quarters (4ths) or eighths (8ths)?


Totally agree with tapering on the meds otherwise many horses get the "pergolide veil". Although temporary, it will make them listless, not interested in eating. Raising the dose every 4 days is good. Really shouldn't do 8ths as the pill isn't even meant to be cut in to 4ths. To dose 4ths, should cut the pill in half then dissolve the half pill in a bit of water, shake and dose 1/2 of the syringe amount. Refrigerate the rest for the next day.


Do you have a case history filled out? I can't remember if your girl is also IR or not. If she is, the applesauce is NOT a healthy way to dose her meds. Pergolide dissolves readily in water so using a small amount of water would be better. I am assuming you are using the Prascend? The compounded pergolide would make tapering the doses up easier as it can be prescribed in any dose amount except 1mg (because the patented product comes in that dose). Adding APF, an adaptogen from Auburn Labs, will also help counteract the "veil" symptoms. 


PPID (Cushings) doesn't cause cancer but because uncontrolled PPID suppresses the immune system it may allow tumors to grow by interfering with the body's ability to recognize/fight the growth. I lost a 31 yo PPID/IR gelding to an aggressive cancer. As I was never quite able to get his pergolide dose high enough to solidly control his PPID (because at that time my vets would not prescribe high enough dose of pergolide), that may have been a factor in the cancer getting such a foothold.


Best thing you can do is get that ACTH under control as quickly as possible and keep it controlled. You had quite a high reading over a month ago and it will only be rising from there due to the effects of the seasonal rise. The 1mg dose will likely not be enough to gain good control so getting to that dose more quickly, and then beyond, should be your goal. That is the best way to help ensure a good quality of life for your girl.


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team




 

 

 


 

My mare also has a small round lump that is quite soft and movable under her jaw where lymph nodes are. My vet said to keep an eye on it it has been the same for at least 2 years with no changes. 
Leanne n Rani.
2010 Aust.
Ec history3 ( sorry haven't got the hang of the link yet)


Lorna Cane
 



>Ec history3 ( sorry haven't got the hang of the link yet)

Here is the link, Leanne:


Copy it and paste it to your signature.


  Lorna in Ontario,Canada

ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc