MUFFY. - ATTN.: NANCY COLLINS


martha williams
 

Dear Nancy,
   Some time ago I remember seeing on your post links to info
re resveratrol promoting rise in cortisol (humans).  Would it be possible please to re-post those links?  Has cortisol rise been seen in horses given resveratrol?
      Dr. (I.M.) considering giving it for metabolic effect (Metabarol)
They are doing ACTH/ins/glucose in AM.
Would resveratrol exacerbate possible gastric ulcer?
  Also - what about TRH stim test?  Can that be harmful?
   Thanks......Williams/Dubrow. NY. '08


Nancy C
 

Hi MarthaHere's a link to our previous conversation about resveratrol

Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance

 

Some  studies on pubmed show resveratrol as possibly helping ulcers in humans.  I took only a quick look but the cortisol rise would not be good.

What would be the reason for a TRH stim if her ATCH has already shown her as PPID in prior testing?  To see if the PPID is controlled?

This is from a post earlier this summer:

A new study from Spain  found the TRH stimulation can yield a false positive during the seasonal rise in ACTH.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/187457
Influence of feeding status, time of ... [Domest Anim Endocrinol. 2014] - PubMed - NCBI
Here's more info on TRH stimulation.

Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance

 

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 






---In EquineCushings@..., <mjwd444@...> wrote :

Dear Nancy,
   Some time ago I remember seeing on your post links to info
re resveratrol promoting rise in cortisol (humans).  Would it be possible please to re-post those links?  Has cortisol rise been seen in horses given resveratrol?


martha williams
 

Hi Nancy
      Yes, TRH stim to see if ACTH is controlled.  Also said
other hormonal actions might be detected that influence PPID,
(if I understood correctly.....??)
    But our ACTH is always a tad above
mid-range on testing, whether we
send to  Cornell or R &R. 
     They question my pergolide,
even tho ACTH seems controlled.
Where is reliable potency testing
available?
     Dr. knew about the Spanish
study, which is why not doing
TRH now.
  MANY  Thanks.  Williams/Dubrow. NY. '08

 

Hi MarthaHere's a link to our previous conversation about resveratrol

Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance

Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance
The ECIR Yahoo group provides a place for everyone who has a horse with Cushing’s Disease and Insulin Resistance in their care to share experiences, pass...
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Some  studies on pubmed show resveratrol as possibly helping ulcers in humans.  I took only a quick look but the cortisol rise would not be good.

What would be the reason for a TRH stim if her ATCH has already shown her as PPID in prior testing?  To see if the PPID is controlled?

This is from a post earlier this summer:

A new study from Spain  found the TRH stimulation can yield a false positive during the seasonal rise in ACTH.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/187457
Influence of feeding status, time of ... [Domest Anim Endocrinol. 2014] - PubMed - NCBI
Influence of feeding status, time of ... [Domest Anim Endocrinol. 2014] - PubMed - NCBI
PubMed comprises more than 23 million citations for biomedical literature from MEDLINE, life science journals, and online books. Citations may include links to full-text content from PubMed Central and publisher web sites.
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Here's more info on TRH stimulation.

Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance
Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance
The ECIR Yahoo group provides a place for everyone who has a horse with Cushing’s Disease and Insulin Resistance in their care to share experiences, pass...
Preview by Yahoo

 

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
The ecirhorse.org website is complimentary to the Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance outreach group. Equine Cushing's Disease, also known ...
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---In EquineCushings@..., <mjwd444@...> wrote :

Dear Nancy,
   Some time ago I remember seeing on your post links to info
re resveratrol promoting rise in cortisol (humans).  Would it be possible please to re-post those links?  Has cortisol rise been seen in horses given resveratrol?


Nancy C
 

Hi Martha What does ACTH "seems controlled" mean?  When was her last test? What dose was/is she on? As has been stated before, we need a case history so we can review your situation when you come to the list with questions.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 





martha williams
 

Hello Nancy!
     I now have a case history up, entirely due to the generosity and skill of LeeAnn (Pitchfork Princess).  Bless her heart!
     You will see that there were 2 fairly recent sets of tests.

     But another one was done this AM & the ACTH is way out of control.
They want me to get the pergolide tested (got it from PHP), which I
will do ASAP.  If you have a good suggestion of a testing facility,
please let me know.  Meanwhile I will ask the pharmacist here
for a referral......
     This AM:
   ACTH  32.3  pmol/L. ----range. 2-10
    Insulin.  15.6. uU/ml.  ----range. 5-36
    Glucose.  98. mg/dl. ----range 60- 110
    Cortisol.   6.0. ug/dl ------range. 1.9-9.2

     Muffpuff has begun to improve in terms of her comfort but still has digital pulse in 4 feet. She has been under STRESS. -  Maybe
because of the ACTH. -  Or maybe elevated ACTH is because of stress....... She has been running 102.3 at night with rapid heart
and resp  rate.
      Dr. said clip her, and afterward, temp, heart rate, and resp
rate returned to normal within 6 hours!!!!

     They want to give resveratrol, even though it causes rise in
cortisol.   Also want me to give additional 4 mg. pergolide,
pending results of potency test.
      Does resveratrol have effect on ACTH?   I thought it was for
insulin/glucose.  Or maybe it's for something else?  This I.M
Dr. is very smart......?

     I want, for the sake of everyone out there, to post a vigorous
warning about excessive use of bute.  This is not an innocuous
drug.  Even though I told them that Muff does not do well
with bute,  and even though I repeatedly asked that it be discontinued, it was given by one of the Drs. here (not the I.M.)
for months, at 2 gm. per day.  Result:  probable gastric ulcer (not
scoped because of need to fast),  and a very serious inflammation/thickening/ulceration of dorsal colon.    I.M. Dr.
said it is improving (misoprostol, gastrogard, and Equi-Shure for treatment)
but takes 8 weeks to resolve.  The additional issue is that,
because of the colon  inflammation,  there has been toxic leakage
into her bloodstream (bacteremia).    This has driven exacerbation
of laminitis. -  for the first time in all 4 feet. 
   Also I have been told that Previcox/Equioxx/firocoxib may be
less damaging than bute,  but that it is far from innocuous.
   Best to use any NSAIDS very sparingly.....
     Dubrow Williams. NY. '08

      

      

 

Hi Martha What does ACTH "seems controlled" mean?  When was her last test? What dose was/is she on? As has been stated before, we need a case history so we can review your situation when you come to the list with questions.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
The ecirhorse.org website is complimentary to the Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance outreach group. Equine Cushing's Disease, also known ...
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Nancy C
 

As always, thank you LeeAnne for your help on this.What is the link to the CASE HISTORY please?

From the beginning almost 15 years ago, this group has  counseled owners to get off the bute asap because of the very thing you have experienced.  A quick review of the archived messages by searching on NSAIDS will reveal just how often this has been brought up.

To go back to the previous posts, resveratrol is not advised.  It makes no sense to me with resveratrol raising cortisol in a horse with uncontrolled PPID.

Please read this page on PPID
Physiology of PPID

 



Which says in part:  Cortisol production is elevated in PPID horses largely due to ACTH and can induce a degree of insulin resistance.


Pergolide is the gold standard for controlling PPID.  Getting it under control is critical IMO, based on what you are saying about her laminitis situation.  It sounds like she is being hit from two assaults. 

You will get far more help for this horse by raising your pergolide dose.  You can contact the pharmacy and ask them to share what their testing has shown.   At least one member has done side-by-side testing and found their compounded retained efficacy.  The FlLES have a copy of the testing done by UC Davis that shows 98% efficacy after 30 days for tablets or powder from a reliable pharmacy.

She needs to have her trim right on the money as well. 
Please, for the sake of this mare, take control of the situation.  It needs to be done now.  You are her advocate. She is relying on you.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 




---In EquineCushings@..., <mjwd444@...> wrote :

Hello Nancy!
     I now have a case history up, entirely due to the generosity and skill of LeeAnn (Pitchfork Princess).  Bless her heart!








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ThePitchforkPrincess@...
 

HI Nancy and Martha,
The Link to the Case History is 

Martha,
You'll want to post the above link , with the rest of your signature every time you ask about Muffy.  

 -LeeAnne, 03/04

Newmarket, Ontario

ECIR Archivist

http://TakenForGraniteArt.webs.com

Are you in the Pergolide Dosage Database? http://tinyurl.com/m6syzt4

ECIR Files Table of Contents: http://tinyurl.com/pfk9m4l