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Hay...Girl! www.haygirl.ca precioushaygirl@gmail.com

Precious Hay Girl
 

Hi everyone...I am new to your group and wanted to say the information provided is very valuable here! I have struggled with my horse from developing fat pads to weight fluctuations and crappy hooves. It wasn't till I tested my hay that I quickly learned that the hay was the problem and ultimately it saved my horse from developing laminitis. Long story short I am here to help as I started my hay business because I couldn't find help nor did anyone test hay or do it properly in the first place. If your in need of hay or assistance please check my website out at www.haygirl.ca or email me at precioushaygirl@... or I am also on Facebook. I am located in Delta, BC Canada Thank you. Pamela Janssen

Kathleen Gustafson
 

Welcome Pamela,
The primary aim of our group is to help educate owners of horses with PPID and/or IR. There is a lot of misinformation regarding diagnosis, what to feed, how to provide adequate hoof support, how to prevent future episodes of laminitis - the list goes on and on. One thing we insist upon is adequate scientific evidence to support any recommendations.

As I looked over your hay site a few things came to mind. First, I should let you know that we do not allow any kind of advertising. On the other hand, finding a good resource for hay can be challenging for many, so I applaud your efforts to help. That said, let's clear up some misconceptions, especially one we've been beating nearly to death in an effort to stamp out flawed information.

1. NSC is an outdated term and should not be used. NSC = WSC, simple sugars (ESC) and starch. 

2. WSC is the carbohydrate fraction made up of largely fructan and ESC. To know the approximate fructan content, subtract ESC from WSC. 

3. Fructan is not digestible. It cannot induce an insulin response. It is fermented to volatile fatty acids in the hindgut and is completely irrelevant to insulin dynamics. Therefore, if one has a perfectly good hay with 20% WSC, 5% ESC and 0.5% starch and believes that fructan has any bearing in IR, they would reject that hay, when really, the sugar and starch content of 5.5% makes it perfectly safe. I've put some charts up on our ECIR Facebook page to illustrate this.

4. We strongly recommend mineral balancing to the excesses and deficiencies in the hay. Therefore, a trace mineral analysis is also recommended when getting a hay analysis.

Finally, I'm on a personal mission to encourage growers and buyers to stop focusing on only "sugar" (ESC + starch, please!) and keep in mind the whole nutrient package - the fiber fractions that affect digestibility and palatability and nutrient quality (ADF, NDF, lignin). There is way too much emphasis on the internet and lay press to "Feed a lower-quality, low-energy forage, such as late-maturity hay." Because the average person doesn't understand hay grading or analysis, many go out and buy the worse possible hay and wonder why their horses look so bad, won't eat it or colic on it. I'm glad to see that the sample on your website is within reasonable limits.

Again - welcome. I don't want to scare you away with all of this. I just wanted to let you know that we insist on the facts when it comes to talking about what carbohydrates are relevant to IR.

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)
Director, ECIR, Inc
Missouri, USA
Dec 2005

ECIR Group - Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance

 







Kathleen Gustafson
 

If this subject isn't confusing enough, I've managed to add to the confusion by not adequately proofreading. That should teach me to caffeinate properly before responding in the morning!
The correct definition for the term NSC is fructan, simple sugar and starch; citing Longland and Byrd (2006)1: 

"The sum of the simple sugars and fructans comprise the water-soluble carbohydrate (WSC) fraction of the plant. By contrast, starch is the storage carbohydrate of temperate grass seed and the seed and vegetative tissues of legumes. The sum of the simple sugars, fructan, and starch comprises the nonstructural carbohydrate (NSC)2 fraction of the plant."
  1. 1. Longland AC, Byrd BM. Pasture nonstructural carbohydrates and equine laminitis. Journal of Nutrition. 2006;136:20995-21025.
  1. 2. 
    Holt DA, Hilst AR. Daily variation in carbohydrate content of selected forage crops. Agron J. 1969;61:239.
 
NSC contains carbohydrate fractions that DO induce an insulin response (simple sugars, starch) and DO NOT (fructan). By including the fructan fraction when establishing a threshold of 10% as "safe" there is a greater than 90% chance that you cannot find a "safe" hay without giving up significant nutrient quality. Bottom line: Measure what matters when it comes to IR - ESC+starch.

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)
Director, ECIR, Inc
Missouri, USA
Dec 2005
 

sylvie_francoeur@...
 

can someone help me find the ESC/WSC Charts Kathleen mentioned putting on the ECIR Facebook page. 

thanks

Sylvie Francoeur, Canada

2009

Nancy C
 

Hi Sylvie

Look for pots on  ECIR Facebook page dated 08.01.14 and 08.02.14. Link to page below.

I'm hoping I can sweet talk Kathleen into putting them here too because, even though Yahoo NEO is a pain, finding stuff on FB is worse, IME.

Kat, if you see this and can send to me I will upload here.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
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Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 







---In EquineCushings@..., <sylvie_francoeur@...> wrote :

can someone help me find the ESC/WSC Charts Kathleen mentioned putting on the ECIR Facebook page. 

thanks

Sylvie Francoeur, Canada

2009

francky@...
 

thanks Nancy, found the charts on FB

Sylvie Francoeur, Canada

2009

Precious Hay Girl
 

Thanks for the information. Most of the info you have provided is how I assist my clients. The lab does breakdown the three components WSC ESC Starch. New to our line is the Equine Complete analysis that takes the core sample further to help with the mineral balancing. I share your group on my FB page to assist others....I am not your typical hay seller, rather I like to see myself helping and solving a problem, but mostly I am here for support. I will pull your chart up for further information. Thank you again. Hay...Girl! Pam Janssen

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