New Member from Colorado RE-POST!!
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Suzanne Mansolilli
---In EquineCushings@..., <suzannemansolilli@...> wrote : Uhg! I just spent about an hour on an addendum to this post and it DISAPPEARED when I inadvertently swept my cursor over a link I included. BEWARE you all don't make the same mistake!!! Anyway, thanks to all of you who taught me how to search the files for the info I needed to convince my veterinarian to do Monty's IR bloodwork NON-fasting, we now have an appointment for next Tuesday. However...as I mentioned in the previous post below, 2 weeks ago I changed Monty's hay from an 8.9% s/s that he had been free-feeding through a small-hole hay net for the last year, to a 1.9% s/s. Also, at the same time, because of Monty's excess weight (body score 7) and per suggestion from my vet and this group, I am feeding 2 meals/24 hr at the rate of 1.5% of current body weight. But my concern is the marked change in his attitude toward his food. When he free fed on the old hay, he ate approximately 18 lbs/24 hr (2% of current body weight), eating for 15-20 minute periods and napping in-between. Now, during the last 2 weeks on the limited feeding schedule, he'll eat his portion from a hay net, but he doesn't stop from the time it's given to him until it's gone (7am - 12pm with a forced 1-hr break somewhere in the middle when I clean his boots and re-wrap his abcess. Then he eats manure and searches the dry lot for anything on the ground that resembles hay, taking a few breaks for napping, for the next 7 hrs until it's time for the evening meal. So he eats over a pound an hour on the "meal" schedule, whereas he ate much slower free-fed. I know how important it is for him to reduce his weight, but I'm concerned that this new eating style directly contradicts the intentions of all the literature I gathered for my veterinarian concerning the advantages of the non-fasting test. My test is scheduled for 1 week from today, and I just switched him back to the free-feeding to calm him down. What should I do?? Is this OK or should I go back to the meals? I posted the analysis for both the old and new hays here: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/SuzanneM/ The old hay is the "Terry Porter ..." and the new is "Delta Hay Company's North End Middle" sample. Maybe from this you could tell me if he'll get as fat on the new stuff as he did on the old, or maybe it just depends on how much he eats of the new stuff. At the same time, could you advise on which hay out of the 3 analyses from the Delta Hay Company I should purchase for the upcoming year? I purchased a bit from the North End Middle cut as an emergency measure to get him off the stuff that disagreed with him so this last year. Then I'll need help with mineral balancing. I thank you for your support, or otherwise I'd be crazy by now. SuzanneM and Monty Western Colorado -- July, 2014 Case History: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/SuzanneM/ Photos: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/1794323561
---In EquineCushings@..., <suzannemansolilli@...> wrote : I must mention that just this past week I changed Monty's hay from one that was 8.9% combined ESC + starch (which is what he'd been eating since last summer) to a new hay that is 1.9% ESC + starch and 14.2 NSC. I'm hoping it's OK to change his diet before the bloodwork??? I felt it was necessary to get him off the old hay ASAP, as I felt it was tipping him over the edge in regards to his foot soreness and rotation and the barn I'm at won't soak hay. SuzanneM and Monty Western Colorado -- July, 2014 Case History: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/SuzanneM/ Photos: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/1794323561
---In EquineCushings@..., <gentpony@...> wrote : Hi SuzanneM
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/160091
(sorry link not working for me right now):
You already see physical signs of crestiness and patchy fat. We use the IR test results (remember to get leptin, too) to monitor how effective the current diet is for controlling insulin resistance and to what degree, so the fact that Monty is eating prior to the blood draw is important. If also PPID, that can complicate things, since PPID can also lead to insulin resistance, even if the ACTH is within the lab normals. You may need tighter mineral balancing, lower s/s, more exercise, or even higher levels of pergolide to control IR, depending on the circumstances. You will have a clearer idea where you stand with these persistent symptoms and the degree of IR / PPID control if you test, and at the same time will get a basis for evaluating any future changes.
Eva SW Ontario, Mar 2005 |
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Lavinia Fiscaletti
Hi Suzanne, I took a quick look at the hay analyses for this year. Overall, my choice would be the West Field hay as it has ESC + Starch of 4.3 +1.9 = 6.2. Protein is 8.5, iron is higher than needed but certainly workable, calcium is also high. The other two hays have much higher protein, even higher calcium and iron. The ADF/NDF of the West Field sample is higher than the other two so probably it's a bit more mature hay. We don't recommend only feeding 2 "meals" per day. The recommendation would be to take the total amount of hay for the day and split it into 3-4 feedings so that he never goes more than 6 hours without food. Using the small mesh hay nets is good - some horses need to have those doubled or even tripled to slow them down enough (I have one of those). With the new hays being lower in s/s than last year's hay you may be able to allow him to free feed without gaining excess weight. Another idea would be to soak the hay to lower the s/s further so it would be less calorie dense and he could eat more for gut fill time. I agree that the stress of not eating is something you need to avoid so for the week until the test I would stick with the free feeding routine and work on the weight reduction/total amount eaten reduction after the blood work is pulled. Fasting and stress will negatively affect your blood work results so you want to avoid that. Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut Jan 05, RI EC Support Team |
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Suzanne Mansolilli
Hi Lavinia,
I MEANT to say that the group suggested the amount of hay to be fed at 1.5% of body weight, and that the ranch will only feed 2x/day. You DID, in fact, suggest to split it up into several feedings, Sorry I was unclear and did not intend to misrepresent all your wonderful advice!! Great idea about doubling up the hay nets, I'll certainly give it a try. And I will go forward with the West Field hay. Thanks a million, SuzanneM and Monty Western Colorado -- July, 2014 Case History: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/SuzanneM/ Photos: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/1794323561
---In EquineCushings@..., <shilohmom@...> wrote : Hi Suzanne, We don't recommend only feeding 2 "meals" per day. The recommendation would be to take the total amount of hay for the day and split it into 3-4 feedings so that he never goes more than 6 hours without food. Using the small mesh hay nets is good - some horses need to have those doubled or even tripled to slow them down enough (I have one of those). With the new hays being lower in s/s than last year's hay you may be able to allow him to free feed without gaining excess weight. Another idea would be to soak the hay to lower the s/s further so it would be less calorie dense and he could eat more for gut fill time. I agree that the stress of not eating is something you need to avoid so for the week until the test I would stick with the free feeding routine and work on the weight reduction/total amount eaten reduction after the blood work is pulled. Fasting and stress will negatively affect your blood work results so you want to avoid that. Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut Jan 05, RI EC Support Team |
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